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Discussing Sansa - The Last One: Queen In The North!!!

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

LOL WHAT?!

How can becoming a ruling queen be considered withdrawing? Or even exploring the world or being exiled to the lands of always winter?

Sexually mutilated?! Huh?

We are talking about the woman that hated danny on sight, insulted her, betrayed her brother and conspired danny. All this after danny went north to save it...

Clearly sansa is a great and nice person...

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8 minutes ago, divica said:

We are talking about the woman that hated danny on sight, insulted her, betrayed her brother and conspired danny. All this after danny went north to save it...

Clearly sansa is a great and nice person...

Just stop it.  It's not Sansa's fault the writers didn't know what to do with her character, and made up that stupid catfight, because they wanted an antagonist for your Dany.  I don't think Sansa will ever even meet Dany in the books.  If this wasn't the ending George intended for Sansa (and it's a very much deserved ending given who she is as a person), D&D would have killed her a long time ago, because they clearly hate her.

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6 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Just stop it.  It's not Sansa's fault the writers didn't know what to do with her character, and made up that stupid catfight, because they wanted an antagonist for your Dany.  I don't think Sansa will ever even meet Dany in the books.  If this wasn't the ending George intended for Sansa (and it's a very much deserved ending given who she is as a person), D&D would have killed her a long time ago, because they clearly hate her.

Since they took winterfell sansa is an awfull person… There is no other way to describe her behaviour…

So unless you are saying that as sansa sufered she deserved to be queen (which I don t think makes sense) I have no idea what you are talking about...

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In season 7 Sansa supported her bastard half-brother as King of the North, even though she had a better claim.  She saw how the Northmen reacted to him and she accepted and supported it without complaint.   When Jon threw it all away by bending the knee, Sansa had every right to be angry.  If you hate Sansa for this then you must hate Lyanna Mormont because she expressed the same sentiment.  After her experiences with Cersei, Joffrey, Oleanna, and Littlefinger, Sansa had become a more wary judge of character and she distrusted Danaerys.  

On another note -  Fast forward to season 8 episode 6.  Identical situation, Jon is again being praised by the men of the North.  Dany sits by herself fuming.  No one notices except Varys.  Poor Varys saw what was coming.

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14 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

She fulfilled her brother's legacy. I didn't care much about Sansa getting a crown, I cared about Robb's life having meaning

Nice! I like that take, yes... especially since Robb wrote her out of his will. Makes it ironic.

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As for Northern independence, ignoring the bad portrayal of that in the show, I can see good reasons for it, even if another Stark rules south of the Neck. It's very large, snows even during summer, has potential future issues with the Free Folk north of them, potential issues with men sent to the penal colony of the NW, and there's no guarantee that the ruler after Bran in the south will be a Stark. While indeed some southerners came to the aid of the North, eventually, it was the southern meddling with ruling the North and the Wall, etc, that made the North an even bigger warzone than the RL. Historically, they had to solve issues with kings-beyond-the-wall themselves anyway.

As for their economical independence: without the wars south and how the south pulled the North into it, the North can produce food enough for themselves. They don't really need the Reach for food, as long as they don't have to go to war against or for a southern king/queen and levy their farmers.

This independence does not really work for the Ironborn, unless they go back to reaving and pirating. They have poor farmland, and thus are very reliable on the other regions of the kingdom. If they declare independence and go back to reaving, as a small region they are too easily overwhelmed by the Reach and Westerlands. The same soil issues exist for Dorne as well, though at least they have an inhospitable desert and mountains to repel potential invaders.

So, where the Ironborn and the Dornish culturally may be motivated to cessate, in the long run that could raise miltary overwhelming issues or food shortage. While the North can be far more self-reliant once the threat of the Others is dealt with and trading peace with the Free Folk is established.

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Posted (edited)

Other than the prostitutes, the fighters, Tywin and Gendry, Sansa is the only person in this whole series we ever saw actually working, doing jobs that were for the benefit of other people.  We even saw her at her aunt's sewing and doing a little tiny bit of overseeing (IIRC?). Even all that Arya went through to become a faceless, was for personal reasons and for her individual goals.  That we didn't see Sansa doing it that much was still enormously more ruling and administering, counting, making decisions, planning, than we saw anybody else do.  Even Ned as a Hand, was seen only reading a book to ferret out that Robert wasn't the father of Cersei's children.

Though I still can't figure out how, since the North is independent, it gets to have an Elector's vote on who gets to be king of the 6 kingdoms -- and then if the North will not bend knees, how she gets to be Queen in the North.  But nevermind, that's not Sansa's fault either.

Edited by Zorral

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34 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Though I still can't figure out how, since the North is independent, it gets to have an Elector's vote on who gets to be king of the 6 kingdoms -- and then if the North will not bend knees, how she gets to be Queen in the North.  But nevermind, that's not Sansa's fault either.

The way I saw it, she didn't vote for her brother. I think she skipped that part. Instead she declared independence. But I don't remember the words exactly, so I could be wrong.

How she gets to be queen - we don't really know. Maybe the northern lords chose her. Or maybe she just told them how it's supposed to be now. With the support of her brother, the King of Westeros, I think the northern lords realized that either they go along with her wishes, or the North doesn't get its independence after all... 

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Of course Sansa would be a queen. This was foreshadowed from her first chapter. 

After Dany said she would take her troops on to Winterfell, Sansa being crowned was pay off. GRRM would never do the North dirty like that. 

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I love Sansa as Queen in the North. Not in love with how it was all decided (well, we didn't see it decided but she is now the eldest child of Ned Stark who can be and she's been ruling the North in Jon's absence so I'd wager even the lords of the North don't mind) but the seasons have been too rushed.

Also loved her hair for her coronation. Did anyone else notice it? It was completely down. No more looking like Cersei, Margaery, or even Catelyn. Just down, completely her own.

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Also, it's always good for any region to have strong entities nearby where people who offend the powers that be can take refuge, as the English ran to France and the North American colonies during James I, Charlies 1 and 2, and Cromwell., the French ran to the US and England during the French Terror, and so many did during WWI and WWII, or Italian freedom fighters did in the 19th century to England and France and elsewhere, and the Irish have done forever, including making good careers fighting for Spain. 

So the king of 6 kingdoms gets too big for his wheels, there's someplace else to go.

 

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40 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

The whole Starks take the throne but leave the 7k is baffling. 

As I understand, Bran didn't take it for the Starks permanently as he can't have heirs and he's more the 3ER anyhow. After Bran, the North would be back under someone's rule depending on the Counsel's election. 

Changing subject - I think the North only being independent could have been explained by the North not working with Southern politics. They have 3 generations now of kinda blowing things up down there politically because they just do things differently. 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Just stop it.  It's not Sansa's fault the writers didn't know what to do with her character, and made up that stupid catfight, because they wanted an antagonist for your Dany.  I don't think Sansa will ever even meet Dany in the books.  If this wasn't the ending George intended for Sansa (and it's a very much deserved ending given who she is as a person), D&D would have killed her a long time ago, because they clearly hate her.

Show Sansa isn't the same as Book Sansa, and Show Sansa is what the writers made of her...

She foolishly, unnecessarily antagonized a woman with two freaking dragons and a huge army who could both save the North or burn them to cinders. She has kept ridiculing or opposing all her relatives in positions of power during councils, weakening their position. And why the hell has she taken upon herself to decide the fate of the North before the destiny of Jon was even decided? Jon was still the King of the North, and Bran was his heir by the laws of the Seven Kingdoms!

Sansa becomin queen feels undeserved... all she has done was to survive horrible situations and to undermine her allies...

1 hour ago, nyser1 said:

The whole Starks take the throne but leave the 7k is baffling. 

Yeah, that was stupid...  Without the North, Bran should have never been king... when Sansa declared independence she was effectively vetoing Bran... He still became king because... I don't know why...

Edited by Ser Lepus

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2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Of course Sansa would be a queen. This was foreshadowed from her first chapter. 

After Dany said she would take her troops on to Winterfell, Sansa being crowned was pay off. GRRM would never do the North dirty like that. 

Wait do you mean "Do the north dirty" as in Dany bringing her troops to Winterfell or for Sansa being crowned?

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

Wait do you mean "Do the north dirty" as in Dany bringing her troops to Winterfell or for Sansa being crowned?

Having Dany take away Northern independence, have the North ruled by a Targaryen again after all they've suffered, rewarding Dany with a kingdom that she didn't work for. 

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

As I understand, Bran didn't take it for the Starks permanently as he can't have heirs and he's more the 3ER anyhow. After Bran, the North would be back under someone's rule depending on the Counsel's election. 

Changing subject - I think the North only being independent could have been explained by the North not working with Southern politics. They have 3 generations now of kinda blowing things up down there politically because they just do things differently. 

 

Let's go with that he cannot have heirs: What do you think happens when Sansa does?

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Sansa has basically been a prisoner this entire series, has the gall to tell her uncle to sit down during his pitch for King (of course that was ridiculous in the first place but who the hell is she to tell him to sit down?), has the authority to declare the North independent and everyone accepts without question, gets named Queen in the North even though she has no military experience whatsoever and has committed treason, then has the balls to agree to send Jon to the wall after everything he has done for her. Yeah, not a fan.

 

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Just now, nyser1 said:

Let's go with that he cannot have heirs: What do you think happens when Sansa does?

Sansa's heirs are heirs to the North. They've already decided that the new monarchs in the South are elected in Counsels. 

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