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Amris

Bran's role = messing things up for the living

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When Bran started his training as greenseer I had expected him to play a major (and positive) role in the fight against the dead. We now know he didn't.

So what IS his role in the story then? A character with such an extremely strong magical background must be in the story for a reason, right?

In order to figure his real role out I started to analyze what would happen to the story if Bran wasn't in it. The result is a little shocking:

- Bloodraven would still be alive and the Childrens' cave wouldn't have been overrun by the Army of the Dead

- The relationship between Jon and Dany wouldn't have broken down since Jon wouldn't have learned he is related to Dany

- Jon and Dany would likely have married and the realm would be united

- Varys wouldn't have been forced to go rogue

- Dany wouldn't have snapped

- half a million inhabitants of King's Landing would have survived

Turns out Bran isn't a positive factor in the story after all. His role is to mess everything up. He is a Lucifer-like character.

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Hm. Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

When super powerful Bran didn't do anything in the battle of Winterfell apart from wait and see, I was rather bewildered. Why didn't he even try to warg into someone important, into one of the dragon for instance or into Theon or.... the list is endless. I am no admirer of the skills of D&D - but I couldn't bring myself to the opinion that they had just forgotten about him.

Then there was the scene with his sisters and Jon, when Sansa and Arya swore their oaths to protect Jon´s secret. Bran MUST have known that Sansa hated Dany and that she would not keep her oath when it was clear that she could use this information against Dany. But Bran told them Jon´s parentage, and he MUST have known what a disaster would come from this. What - pure speculation but just for the fun of it - if Bran told them intentionally to get exactly the results he wanted. He saw Dragon´s shadow over KL. Bran knew what would come out of it. And he told Sansa. It was his choice.

Another thing: Since I watched ep 5, I keep wondering why on earth we never saw Dany´s face during the more than 20 minutes during which she burnt KL and nearly everybody in it. You see her face when the bells ring. Yes. But never again afterwards.

Do you remember a movie - any kind of movie - where the main character fights an absolutely crucial battle - and the camera never ever, not for a split of a second, shows you her/his face? You never know what the main character feels in this all decisive time: Is he/she triumphant? Is he/she without any emotions at all? Killing like a robot? Is he/she fighting his/her own doubts? Etc., etc. 

From a storytelling point of view as well as from a cinematic point of view: Isn't it absolutely strange and odd: Not to see the main character´s face even once or twice during the 20 most important minutes of her/his life?!?

Since I'm trying to understand what the showmakers´ intentions could have been I just keep glued to the thought that they didn't show us Dany´s face - because then we would have seen her white eyeballs...

Do you think it possible that Bran warged into Dany? And why?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Torienne said:

Why didn't he even try to warg into someone important, into one of the dragon for instance or into Theon or.... the list is endless.

Have you read the books? Warging into people is extremely dangerous. Bran was only able to do it to Hodor because Hodor was developmentally challenged. Taking over the skin of a fully cognizant person will probably result in that person's death.

Edited by weirwoodface

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Dear me. When I wrote my statement I wasn't aware that there was another user dealing with the same questions as I did, and that he opened a thread about it. As I didn't read Bran´s name in the title I read it after i had posted here. 

Sorry. 

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2 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

Have you read the books? Warging into people is extremely dangerous. Bran was only able to do it to Hodor because Hodor was developmentally challenged. Taking over the skin of a fully cognizant person will probably result in that person's death.

I read the books. Therefore I know that Bran often warged into his direwolf Summer.

In the show he often warged into crows. So why did D&D let him not even try to warg into Viserion?

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Torienne said:

I read the books. Therefore I know that Bran often warged into his direwolf Summer.

In the show he often warged into crows. So why did D&D let him not even try to warg into Viserion?

Viserion is quite different from a crow or a wolf or Hodor.

What Bran was doing was luring the NK to his position in the godswood.

 

Edited by weirwoodface
fixed typo

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3 hours ago, Amris said:

When Bran started his training as greenseer I had expected him to play a major (and positive) role in the fight against the dead. We now know he didn't.

Yes, the Bran storyline is somewhat disappointing to me, too. I still don't see the deeper sense of the weirwood trees, the Children of the Forest, the meaning of a three-eyed raven and why the Nightking wanted to kill him. They cut that short, very short. Unsatisfyingly short. We will have to live with it and hope for better explanations in the books to come.

I try to see the positive side as follows: Game of Thrones is about the Iron Throne, about power games and, most probably, about how the common folk suffers by the upper class' greed for power.

We see very many threads in parallel, one of them is Bran's, the others are Arya's arc, Jon Snow and the Night's Watch, Daenerys, Sansa/Cersei/Tyrion (which split up later) and some simple spice-up with Iron Islands, Theon, Ramsay (them intertwining with each other and with Sansa's thread for complexity reasons and character development).

Now I see the Bran thread as just one of many but not as the main thread. It has never been the main thread. We just thought so for a while in S7 and up to S8E3. But it wasn't. It was just an interesting thread with a common threat where people had to work together. That's all. One interesting thread with a culmination in S8E3 and quite a lot of boring scenes in S1 to S6, with the obivous exception of the Bloodraven/Hodor highlights. 

Bran's scenes were not important during S1 to S6 and they were just one of many threads that came to a conclusion in the final season.

I can live with this perspective. Can you?

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6 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

Viserion is quite different from a crow or a wolf or Hodor.

What Bran was doing was luting the NK to his position in the godswood.

Correct.  We know from the books that Varamyr, who was one of the most powerful wargs of the wildlings, had been training since he was a child, and was able to warg into different types of animals, had trouble warging into a bear because its mind and will were too strong.

Bran had only been warging for a few years and we have only seen him warg minor creatures or Summer, who he had a connection with.

I never understood why so many people were under the impression that Bran had superpowers. He can't warg into any person he wants, he can't see the actual future, and he doesn't have super human abilities.  

It's just like Bran said before the battle... has a repository for the past, a library on wheels... for those that understand the reference, hes the Bookmobile.

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3 hours ago, Amris said:

When Bran started his training as greenseer I had expected him to play a major (and positive) role in the fight against the dead. We now know he didn't.

So what IS his role in the story then? A character with such an extremely strong magical background must be in the story for a reason, right?

In order to figure his real role out I started to analyze what would happen to the story if Bran wasn't in it. The result is a little shocking:

- Bloodraven would still be alive and the Childrens' cave wouldn't have been overrun by the Army of the Dead

- The relationship between Jon and Dany wouldn't have broken down since Jon wouldn't have learned he is related to Dany

- Jon and Dany would likely have married and the realm would be united

- Varys wouldn't have been forced to go rogue

- Dany wouldn't have snapped

- half a million inhabitants of King's Landing would have survived

Turns out Bran isn't a positive factor in the story after all. His role is to mess everything up. He is a Lucifer-like character.

Also the Wall wouldn't have fallen. It was Bran that send the raven to John and panicked him setting the Wight expedition into motion. Without Bran's vision everything would have stayed in place since NK wouldn't have gotten a dragon. 

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I realllyyyy hope there is more to Bran than just being there for exposition and to move the plot forward at random points. At the same time, I worry that he has had no real character development for seasons now, and even left out for an entire season, that him doing anything important will feel out of place.

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Bran is showing the reason why bloodraven was so far from humanity.  Knowledge can be dangerous

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4 minutes ago, Vuron said:

... he can't see the actual future... 

Didn´t we see Drogon´s shadow high above KL in one of Bran´s visions?

And didn´t ep. 5 repeat exactly this sequence - with real Drogon following his shadow?

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Just now, Torienne said:

Didn´t we see Drogon´s shadow high above KL in one of Bran´s visions?

And didn´t ep. 5 repeat exactly this sequence - with real Drogon following his shadow?

I think he gets pieces of the future.  Sort of like Melisandre with the flames... he has to puzzle it together and make guesses

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4 hours ago, Amris said:

When Bran started his training as greenseer I had expected him to play a major (and positive) role in the fight against the dead. We now know he didn't.

So what IS his role in the story then? A character with such an extremely strong magical background must be in the story for a reason, right?

In order to figure his real role out I started to analyze what would happen to the story if Bran wasn't in it. The result is a little shocking:

- Bloodraven would still be alive and the Childrens' cave wouldn't have been overrun by the Army of the Dead

- The relationship between Jon and Dany wouldn't have broken down since Jon wouldn't have learned he is related to Dany

- Jon and Dany would likely have married and the realm would be united

- Varys wouldn't have been forced to go rogue

- Dany wouldn't have snapped

- half a million inhabitants of King's Landing would have survived

Turns out Bran isn't a positive factor in the story after all. His role is to mess everything up. He is a Lucifer-like character.

do you think bran is an enemy (I mean he is not bran anymore)?

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2 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

I think he gets pieces of the future.  Sort of like Melisandre with the flames... he has to puzzle it together and make guesses

Exactly. 

But having this precise picture in his vision "Burn them all!". And knowing for sure that there are only two dragons left in his world and that they belong and obey Dany: Why did he not warn his siblings? Why did he not warn Dany? Not warn Jon Snow? Dany´s dragon over KL - is there another interpretation to this vision apart from deadly danger?

Why did Bran not warn anybody. 

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Are there just two dragons left, though? Also does his vision show future that is, or future that might be? He could easily interpret it as unViserion and by stopping NK this threat is over. It could be a symbol of Targaryen rule. Could be flashback from the past - in the same sequence he did have symbolic flashbacks and flash-forwards.

 

One thing mentioned over and over again is that magic is a double-edged sword without a handle and that trying to second guess prophecies and visions and make them happen usually messes things up. 

 

And I can see why show dropped warging. It is a rather messy thing to translate on screen. It works great on paper, same as a lot of things from inner thoughts. 

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4 hours ago, Amris said:

When Bran started his training as greenseer I had expected him to play a major (and positive) role in the fight against the dead. We now know he didn't.

So what IS his role in the story then? A character with such an extremely strong magical background must be in the story for a reason, right?

In order to figure his real role out I started to analyze what would happen to the story if Bran wasn't in it. The result is a little shocking:

- Bloodraven would still be alive and the Childrens' cave wouldn't have been overrun by the Army of the Dead

- The relationship between Jon and Dany wouldn't have broken down since Jon wouldn't have learned he is related to Dany

- Jon and Dany would likely have married and the realm would be united

- Varys wouldn't have been forced to go rogue

- Dany wouldn't have snapped

- half a million inhabitants of King's Landing would have survived

Turns out Bran isn't a positive factor in the story after all. His role is to mess everything up. He is a Lucifer-like character.

all of this has blown my mind - this could be the third twist - that bran is the criminal master mind! or perhaps this a way of the CotF getting revenge on men?

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16 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

do you think bran is an enemy (I mean he is not bran anymore)?

The more I think about it the more convinced I am.

When I compare the lively little boy - even after his fall from the tower - with that non-human monster that did not feel anything anymore - even to someone like Meera who again and again risked her life for him - when I remember his ice-cold reactions meeting his siblings after all those years - when I think that a hint of that former liveliness showed only when he said "We need to tell him" - 

- yes, I really do think that Bran´s intentions are not friendly to mankind.

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1 minute ago, Torienne said:

The more I think about it the more convinced I am.

When I compare the lively little boy - even after his fall from the tower - with that non-human monster that did not feel anything anymore - even to someone like Meera who again and again risked her life for him - when I remember his ice-cold reactions meeting his siblings after all those years - when I think that a hint of that former liveliness showed only when he said "We need to tell him" - 

- yes, I really do think that Bran´s intentions are not friendly to mankind.

it makes sense - wowsers - he has hinted he can see into the future also - even more deflated now than before as I kinda hoped the CotF would rezz dany but that would make even less sense now

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31 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

all of this has blown my mind - this could be the third twist - that bran is the criminal master mind! or perhaps this a way of the CotF getting revenge on men?

Totally second that, and not just because our Forum Member names are near name sakes :lmao:

Nice OP @Amris

This would be an interesting twist indeed, but I wonder if the Show is capable of explaining it properly to the Unsullied and the Jinglebells.

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