Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

[Seams]

Link to the previous collection of text-based observations: Wow, I never noticed that Vol. 17.

The abomination will be done before this thread is closed. Book-lovers will be relieved and show-watchers will be disappointed.

TWoW probably won't be available before this thread is finished. But maybe GRRM will re-release the already-released chapters. Or The She-Wolves of Winterfell?

At a comic con somewhere this summer, I predict (hope) he will drop some juicy gossip on us in keeping with past revelations such as "Lady Stoneheart has a big role in the upcoming book," "Jeyne Westerling will appear in the prologue," and "Bloodraven took Dark Sister to the Wall." I'm hoping the gossip will involve Val and Monster. Or Prince Doran. Or Ser Hyle Hunt.

But those are just some predictions, and this thread is about comments based on the texts we have.

Fang an!

[The Fattest Leech]

Yeah, new thread! It's all shiny and clean.

Thank you for taking the helm @Seams

[The Fattest Leech]

As many times as I have read and discussed the series, there is always something that tickles the cranium. An oldie, but goody...

Aww, rats:

• A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

  The fourth room was oval rather than square and walled in worm-eaten wood in place of stone. Six passages led out from it in place of four. Dany chose the rightmost, and entered a long, dim, high-ceilinged hall. Along the right hand was a row of torches burning with a smoky orange light, but the only doors were to her left. Drogon unfolded wide black wings and beat the stale air. He flew twenty feet before thudding to an undignified crash. Dany strode after him.

  The mold-eaten carpet under her feet had once been gorgeously colored, and whorls of gold could still be seen in the fabric, glinting broken amidst the faded grey and mottled green. What remained served to muffle her footfalls, but that was not all to the good. Dany could hear sounds within the walls, a faint scurrying and scrabbling that made her think of rats. Drogon heard them too. His head moved as he followed the sounds, and when they stopped he gave an angry scream. Other sounds, even more disturbing, came through some of the closed doors. One shook and thumped, as if someone were trying to break through. From another came a dissonant piping that made the dragon lash his tail wildly from side to side. Dany hurried quickly past.

  Not all the doors were closed. I will not look, Dany told herself, but the temptation was too strong.

• A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

  Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

  But then black wings buffeted her round the head, and a scream of fury cut the indigo air, and suddenly the visions were gone, ripped away, and Dany's gasp turned to horror. The Undying were all around her, blue and cold, whispering as they reached for her, pulling, stroking, tugging at her clothes, touching her with their dry cold hands, twining their fingers through her hair. All the strength had left her limbs. She could not move. Even her heart had ceased to beat. She felt a hand on her bare breast, twisting her nipple. Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting . . .

• A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI

She had missed his voice so much, but she had to be stern. "Be quiet. I will tell you when to speak." She stood. "When I sent you down into the sewers, part of me hoped I'd seen the last of you. It seemed a fitting end for liars, to drown in slavers' filth. I thought the gods would deal with you, but instead you returned to me. My gallant knights of Westeros, an informer and a turncloak. My brother would have hanged you both." Viserys would have, anyway. She did not know what Rhaegar would have done. "I will admit you helped win me this city . . ."

Ser Jorah's mouth tightened. "We won you this city. We sewer rats."

"Be quiet," she said again . . . though there was truth to what he said. While Joso's Cock and the other rams were battering the city gates and her archers were firing flights of flaming arrows over the walls, Dany had sent two hundred men along the river under cover of darkness to fire the hulks in the harbor. But that was only to hide their true purpose. As the flaming ships drew the eyes of the defenders on the walls, a few half-mad swimmers found the sewer mouths and pried loose a rusted iron grating. Ser Jorah, Ser Barristan, Strong Belwas, and twenty brave fools slipped beneath the brown water and up the brick tunnel, a mixed force of sellswords, Unsullied, and freedmen. Dany had told them to choose only men who had no families . . . and preferably no sense of smell.

• A Storm of Swords - Daenerys IV

On the morning of the third day, the city gates swung open and a line of slaves began to emerge. Dany mounted her silver to greet them. As they passed, little Missandei told them that they owed their freedom to Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros and Mother of Dragons.

"Mhysa!" a brown-skinned man shouted out at her. He had a child on his shoulder, a little girl, and she screamed the same word in her thin voice. "Mhysa! Mhysa!"

Dany looked at Missandei. "What are they shouting?"

"It is Ghiscari, the old pure tongue. It means 'Mother.'"

[Lost Melnibonean]

13 hours ago, Seams said:

The abomination will be done before this thread is closed.

13 hours ago, Seams said:

TWoW probably won't be available before this thread is finished.

[Hugorfonics]

"Thank  you, my lord of Lannister." He pulled off his glove and offered his bare hand. "Friend."

Tyrion found himself oddly touched. "Most of my kin are bastards," he said with a wry smile, "but you're the first I've had to friend." He pulled a glove off with his teeth and clasped Snow by the hand, flesh against flesh.

 

Is that Tyrion low key telling Jon about Cersei and Jaimes kids? Or does he know something about Cersei and Jaimes father?

[Adam Targaryen]

The fact that Tyrion eats mushrooms when he is at Illyrio's mansion in ADWD and he is the closest he's ever been to being the contemporary version of Mushroom the dwarf fool. Probably completely obvious and an old thing but I just read it 'cuz I've just started ADWD for my first time and felt I had to write something

[Seams]

11 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

The fact that Tyrion eats mushrooms when he is at Illyrio's mansion in ADWD and he is the closest he's ever been to being the contemporary version of Mushroom the dwarf fool. Probably completely obvious and an old thing but I just read it 'cuz I've just started ADWD for my first time and felt I had to write something

There was a recent discussion about the meaning of mushrooms.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

Another one on Bowen Marsh; I’ve never noticed that his name is so similar to Bow and march. Something in store for him in the future perhaps?

[Corvo the Crow]

House Staunton of Rook's Rest: Staunton is a style of chess pieces named after the chess player Howard Staunton. 

[Lord Wraith]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:01 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Another one on Bowen Marsh; I’ve never noticed that his name is so similar to Bow and march. Something in store for him in the future perhaps?

Marchers are known as some of the best archers in Westeros. Still I thought Marsh was a name that would belong to a Northern House in the Neck.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Marchers are known as some of the best archers in Westeros. Still I thought Marsh was a name that would belong to a Northern House in the Neck.

 

Bowen is from the North. Bow as in Bowing, not weapon and march as in marching, not land.

He’ll bow his head and march south perhaps, or it could be it were the wildlings who bowed and marched and Bowen Marsh was there, making arrangments for this undet Jon’s command.

[Corvo the Crow]

Not exactly something new, I have, long ago, suggested that “don” could be a suffix that mean son or something to that effect, as seen with Durran-don and perhaps Bran-don since we have people called Bran and Brandon, so likely Brandons are Bransons. 

Dondarrion may have been Don-Darrion or Don-Dareon, with the Don as a prefix

Also another wordplay, Brandishing means to move/wave a weapon to show anger or to threten and Brand has these meanings, which I’ll group in two; fire/flame/burning/torch and sword

So Brandon could also be Brand on and Brand part of Brandon could carry a double meaning; a fiery/flaming sword perhaps. Lightbringer? 

It’a not much, but I invite you, @Seams because you like the wordplays.

[Adam Targaryen]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:45 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Not exactly something new, I have, long ago, suggested that “don” could be a suffix that mean son or something to that effect, as seen with Durran-don and perhaps Bran-don since we have people called Bran and Brandon, so likely Brandons are Bransons. 

Dondarrion may have been Don-Darrion or Don-Dareon, with the Don as a prefix

 

Really interesting, I think it makes sense. It could be the Old Tongue

[Corvo the Crow]

Northumbria is the lands north of Humber river, Umbers in the North have their lands, mostly, north of the river Last Hearth.

[Gink]

Never noticed in my first read that Renly basically told Ned at the hands tourney that Tyrion didn't win that dagger from Littlefinger.

[Corvo the Crow]

It’s probably nothing, but, I’ve just learned that kierkagaard means churchyard/graveyard.

Since we have previously associated Soren Shieldbreaker with grave, because of shield=door and the stonedoor, being perhaps a gravestone, could he be named after Soren Kierkegaard?

[Corvo the Crow]

House Roxton

While we are never told that they are Hightower vassals, Ser Roxton being with the Hightower army in Oldtown suggests me that they are vassals and ones living very close to Oldtown or even inside it, like Stout-Dustin or Grafton-Shett.

Ravenry on the Isle of Ravens is the oldest building of the citadel, it is a castle that was once inhabited by a pirate lord who robbed ships coming down Honeywine.

Now a look back at the Roxtons. Their seat is The Ring, their sigil is golden chains on a field of blue. Blue makes me think of a body of water, the chains a maester’s chain, but also a barred passage perhaps, like Tyrion’s chain blocking Blackwater. The color gold makes me think ofHoneywine.

Now to the name Roxton; it could be Rookstone or Rookston.

 

[Seams]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:46 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

It’s probably nothing, but, I’ve just learned that kierkagaard means churchyard/graveyard.

Since we have previously associated Soren Shieldbreaker with grave, because of shield=door and the stonedoor, being perhaps a gravestone, could he be named after Soren Kierkegaard?

Kierkegaard is an existentialist and Shieldbreaker is an axe-istentialist. Just sayin'.

[Seams]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:45 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Not exactly something new, I have, long ago, suggested that “don” could be a suffix that mean son or something to that effect, as seen with Durran-don and perhaps Bran-don since we have people called Bran and Brandon, so likely Brandons are Bransons. 

Dondarrion may have been Don-Darrion or Don-Dareon, with the Don as a prefix

Also another wordplay, Brandishing means to move/wave a weapon to show anger or to threten and Brand has these meanings, which I’ll group in two; fire/flame/burning/torch and sword

So Brandon could also be Brand on and Brand part of Brandon could carry a double meaning; a fiery/flaming sword perhaps. Lightbringer? 

It’a not much, but I invite you, @Seams because you like the wordplays.

I really like this and, of course, it got me to think about other names.

Awhile ago, I had focused on lemons and their link to characters named Emmon. There is a House Bar Emmon, loyal to Stannis. I assumed GRRM was creating a surname that used a Hebrew-like prefix (just looked it up - I guess it's an Aramaic prefix) to indicate that this House surname meant something like "son of Emmon". And when I just said "son of Emmon" in my head as I was typing this, I thought: "Cinnamon?" So maybe the symbolism in the Cinnamon Wind will somehow relate back to Bar Emmon and Emmon and lemons.

Because your theory led me to think about Bar Emmon again, I realized that the name Barristan could be a similar name, even if it's not a surname. We don't have a character named Ristan, that I can think of, but we do have a Stannis which falls within what I see as GRRM's syllable-switching wordplay rules. "Barristan" could be "Bar is-Stann," or son of Stannis. Of course, I don't see Ser Barristan as a literal son of Stannis, but I do see him as a probable bastard from a highborn House. And a name that means "Son of Stannis" could mean that Ser Barristan is linked to House Baratheon in some way, or that his character has some connection to the character of Stannis or someone else named Stannis.

Baratheon itself could be another "bar" name. One of my early wordplay questions was whether Theon could be one of Robert Baratheon's bastards, since he had a daughter named Bara. It seemed logical that he could have a son named Theon. (But I've never seen other hints that would support that speculation.)

Most of the other "bar" names are Barbra and Barbrey. There is also a Barneby and a Barquen.

[Corvo the Crow]

14 hours ago, Seams said:

I really like this and, of course, it got me to think about other names.

Awhile ago, I had focused on lemons and their link to characters named Emmon. There is a House Bar Emmon, loyal to Stannis. I assumed GRRM was creating a surname that used a Hebrew-like prefix (just looked it up - I guess it's an Aramaic prefix) to indicate that this House surname meant something like "son of Emmon". And when I just said "son of Emmon" in my head as I was typing this, I thought: "Cinnamon?" So maybe the symbolism in the Cinnamon Wind will somehow relate back to Bar Emmon and Emmon and lemons.

Because your theory led me to think about Bar Emmon again, I realized that the name Barristan could be a similar name, even if it's not a surname. We don't have a character named Ristan, that I can think of, but we do have a Stannis which falls within what I see as GRRM's syllable-switching wordplay rules. "Barristan" could be "Bar is-Stann," or son of Stannis. Of course, I don't see Ser Barristan as a literal son of Stannis, but I do see him as a probable bastard from a highborn House. And a name that means "Son of Stannis" could mean that Ser Barristan is linked to House Baratheon in some way, or that his character has some connection to the character of Stannis or someone else named Stannis.

Baratheon itself could be another "bar" name. One of my early wordplay questions was whether Theon could be one of Robert Baratheon's bastards, since he had a daughter named Bara. It seemed logical that he could have a son named Theon. (But I've never seen other hints that would support that speculation.)

Most of the other "bar" names are Barbra and Barbrey. There is also a Barneby and a Barquen.

 

When thinking about words such as names in ASOIAF, I find wiktionary to be very helpful, mostly.

 

It says theon, as a verb, means to flourish, prosper, be successful. So perhaps bar not as a son but bar one from prospering?

 

So could Barristan be barring Stan(nis)? After all, Renly expected him to go to Stannis or Robb since he hasn't joined him and Tywin's thoughts on him make me think he is a kingmaker,or queen maker in Dany's case and one of his chapters is named kingbreaker.

Quote

"And dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes, the man was old, but the name of Barristan the Bold still has meaning in the realm. He lent honor to any man he served.

 

All the kings of Wot5K he hasn't served have been broken, Renly, Robb, Balon and Joff are dead and Stannis, the only living one is no longer relevant in the game of thrones.