Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Sometime ago, in the previous thread, I posted about the ship the Sloe-Eyed Maid and said there was only another instance where "sloe-eyed maid" was used and that was to describe Taena Merryweather and wondered if perhaps the ship wasn't named for her. 

So I went back and looked at some of the ships that bear the names of characters and there seem to be parallels between characters and those ships.

• Lady Lyanna --> Named for Lyanna Stark, sent away from King's Landing as part of an escort to see Myrcella to safety. The ship goes to Braavos and I am unclear if she was supposed to head all the way down to Dorne with the Braavosi ships Tyrion hires. Davos before the battle of Blackwater comments that beautiful ship was not in King's Landing. 
  Lyanna Stark's whereabouts are unknown for a while. Brandon rides for King's Landing where she isn't. Got to wonder if she too sailed to Braavos before heading down to Dorne, or if she was going to make the opposite journey, sail from Dorne the Braavos.
• Black Betha --> Destroyed by wildfire during the Battle of Blackwater
  Betha Blackwood's husband and eldest son both died at Summerhall when it was burned down by wildfire and we don't know what happened to her.
• Lord Steffon --> Named for Steffon Baratheon. The ship makes it out of the Battle of Blackwater, but is sunk by its crew to prevent it from falling into enemy hands.
  Lord Steffon Baratheon drowned
• Queen Cersei --> Destroyed by wildfire at the Battle of Blackwater. We don't know how Cersei will die, but she sure loves her wildfire.

We have the ship Kingslander, which is named for an inhabitant of King's Landing. The ship is engulfed and destroyed by wildfire after another ship (Swordfish) explodes.

Cersei's dromonds;

I'm assuming Aurane Waters will change the names, but we have the following;

• Brave Joffrey --> Joffrey is dead
• Lord Tywin --> He's dead too
• Sweet Cersei 
• Lady Joanna --> She's dead
• Lioness 
• Queen Margaery
• Golden Rose
• Lord Renly --> He's dead
• Lady Olenna --> a tin foil on this one. Olenna has been called a harridan by a couple characters. One of the ships that was destroyed by wildfire during the Battle of Blackwater was a Velaryon ship named Harridan. Over in Meereen, one of the catapults has also been named Harridan. So perhaps it will get destroyed by fire
• Princess Myrcella --> She has been attacked and maimed.

It's possible that Aurane will lose half his ships.

I thought it was an interesting look at the fate of some characters through the ships that were named for them and vice versa.

That's really good.

The Sloe-Eyed Maid, traveled around the world, brought back precious cargo but sunk during a storm due to the Sisterton false lights when it was almost home.  Borrell mentions taking precious cargo off of a sloe-eyed maid: saffron, the most valuable spice in all the world, is the product of the Crocus--a purple and white flower.  The color sloe is dark, purple-blue (plum), and it refers to a plant with white flowers and fruit like small plums.  Ashara had white skin and purple/violet eyes, the Dayne house colors are purple and white, she is the sloe-eyed maid/crocus, the precious cargo taken off her was her baby (but at WhiteHarbor, not Sisterton).

(White Harbors Sept is called the Sept of the Snows, and the Wolfs Den was built by Jon Stark , a place you would expect to find a baby wolf, and Davos thinks to himself "Did Manderly have a Stark heir hidden away in his castle?")

When Davos is listening to the sailors in White Harbor they bring up the possibility of false history and children being alive who were thought dead:

Quote

"So they tell us," said the old fellow. "Might be they're lying, though. He died half a world away, if he died at all. Who's to say? If a king wanted me dead, might be I'd oblige him and pretend to be a corpse. None of us has ever seen his body."

"I never saw Joffrey's corpse, nor Robert's," growled the Eel's proprietor. "Maybe they're all alive as well. Maybe Baelor the Blessed's just been having him a little nap all these years."

"The old fellow made a face. "Prince Viserys weren't the only dragon, were he? Are we sure they killed Prince Rhaegar's son? A babe, he was."

"Wasn't there some princess too?" asked a whore. She was the same one who'd said the meat was grey.

"Two," said the old fellow. "One was Rhaegar's daughter, t'other was his sister."

Ashara is believed dead but no-one ever saw the body, and had a child believed dead.  And they bring up Dany and her purple eyes, trying to get on the sloe-eyed maid, but being denied. 

"When we were down to Pentos we moored beside a trader called the Sloe-Eyed Maid, and I got to drinking with her captain's steward. He told me a pretty tale about some slip of a girl who come aboard in Qarth, to try and book passage back to Westeros for her and three dragons. Silver hair she had, and purple eyes. 'I took her to the captain my own self,' this steward swore to me, 'but he wasn't having none of that. There's more profit in cloves and saffron, he tells me, and spices won't set fire to your sails.' "

Dany also denies the Sloe-Eyed Maid title: "Pinchbottom Petto and Sloe-Eyed Maid were too small for her needs."

 

Barriston recalls Ashara: "her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes."

The sloe-eyed maid is not a Targ, but a Dayne. 

 

The phrase sloe-eyed means "dark eyed"

Taena of Myr was a "sloe-eyed beauty," with big dark eyes and black hair, and she is described as being very beautiful. 

Gerold Dayne " His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew that they were purple. Dark purple."

Ned Dayne "Ned had big blue eyes, so dark that they looked almost purple."

And Dornish plums are sometimes described as being black: "his face turning as black as a Dornish plum" "The boy's face turned black as a plum."

Plums grow in Dorne, sloes are a close relative of plums, sloes are dark purple with white flowers, the Dayne House colors are purple and white, Ashara is a Dornish plum, the Sloe-Eyed Maid.  Her ship sank and that identity is dead, but Lemore is her ghost, whose ship is now the Shy Maid.

ETA the Latin name for the Blackthorn sloe is Prunus spinosa, or "spiny plum," and dorn means "thorn" in several languages.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I just realized that GRRM borrowed Margaret of Beaufort's emblem for House Yronwood. 

[Corvo the Crow]

So someone most likely noticed this before but here it is

Jonnel Stark, who is called one-eye and is Cregan Stark’s second son and also son of Lynara, marries his half-niece Sansa Stark.

Our Jon is referred to as his half-brother by our Sansa and he also has one eye, sort of, after Orell’s-Varamyr’s eagle attacked him. Though both of his eyes still remain intact, he got a nice scar around one. After her father Rickon died, Sansa was second in line to inherit

[LadyOfCastamere]

I dont know if this is the right spot for it, but I remember in Mel's chapter she says she sees Jon's face, then daggers in the night and then Jon's face again.

For me that was a clear foreshadowing that he will be revived.

[Corvo the Crow]

Something old, which I once started a topic on which didn’t take off but fits here as well.

Brandon the Builder, first known Stark, built the wall with the aid of the giants.

Brandon of the Bloody Blade, who is one of Garth’s sons and is supposedly a Stark, drove the giants out of the Reach.

The first hero, with his companions, who were the original NW, seeked out the CotF. 

Brandon of the Bloody Blade slaughtered them near Red Lake

[Seams]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Something old, which I once started a topic on which didn’t take off but fits here as well.

Brandon the Builder, first known Stark, built the wall with the aid of the giants.

Brandon of the Bloody Blade, who is one of Garth’s sons and is supposedly a Stark, drove the giants out of the Reach.

The first hero, with his companions, who were the original NW, seeked out the CotF. 

Brandon of the Bloody Blade slaughtered them near Red Lake

Bad Boy of North

[Adam Targaryen]

Not necessarily related to the series itself but:

 

"Santa Fe" - "Fanta-sy"

[asongofheresy]

Myrish Fire, a herb used to treat wounds and burns, also drink to help digestive system, is actually St. John's wort, I drink its oil to treat my digestive system and use it on bruises as well, it's a tasty tea too. Never noticed it before which is a shame because I am Turkish. 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

16 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Myrish Fire, a herb used to treat wounds and burns, also drink to help digestive system, is actually St. John's wort, I drink its oil to treat my digestive system and use it on bruises as well, it's a tasty tea too. Never noticed it before which is a shame because I am Turkish. 

 

Sarı kantaron tea is also good for the eyes. Or at least it was thought so.

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Sarı kantaron tea is also good for the eyes. Or at least it was thought so.

Holly molly you are Turkish?? Yep my dad is drinking sarı kantaron tea too and he is blinded in one eye, maybe it is good for him, one can hope. 

[Gingin]

Clegane

If you take “leg” out of “Clegane” (Grandpa Clegane lost a leg and Sandor’s leg was injured), the remaining letters form the word “cane”, which is Italian for “dog”.

 

[Seams]

2 hours ago, Gingin said:

Clegane

If you take “leg” out of “Clegane” (Grandpa Clegane lost a leg and Sandor’s leg was injured), the remaining letters form the word “cane”, which is Italian for “dog”.

 

I think very few characters get leg injuries, oddly. We read about half-hands (Qhorin), severed fingers (Davos), severed arms (Jaime), maimed arms (Marc Mullendore) and injuries to guts, eyes, mouths, ears, noses, hearts and heads. Ned's leg is injured when Jaime attacks him and his men, and Jon Snow's leg is shot by an arrow fired by Ygritte. There may be other leg injuries, but it seems as if they are few in proportion to the many arm and hand injuries. 

The Clegane = leg + dog is a very nice catch!

[Corvo the Crow]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:22 PM, Jova Snow said:

Holly molly you are Turkish?? Yep my dad is drinking sarı kantaron tea too and he is blinded in one eye, maybe it is good for him, one can hope. 

I am. Since I’ve come out of the closet, there are a few others as well and at least one person from Azerbaycan. I thought I should say, after all One does not expect many turkish people here, and the few I’ve noticed over the years are mostly posting on the part of the forums that belong to the abomination.

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I am. Since I’ve come out of the closet, there are a few others as well and at least one person from Azerbaycan. I thought I should say, after all One does not expect many turkish people here, and the few I’ve noticed over the years are mostly posting on the part of the forums that belong to the abomination.

I am happy there is at least one of us posting here, did you ever wanted to write about Turkic influence in ASOIAF? I think stealing culture of Free Folk is similar to kız kaçırma in Turkic countries, especially Kyrgyzstan, my own maternal grandfather's mother was stolen from forest so. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:56 PM, Gingin said:

Clegane

If you take “leg” out of “Clegane” (Grandpa Clegane lost a leg and Sandor’s leg was injured), the remaining letters form the word “cane”, which is Italian for “dog”.

 

There is a Pink Floyd song called Corporal Clegg, Clegg has a wooden leg from WWII and he has PTSD.

In gaelic cleigainne means "skull" (and refers to the front stem of a boat) and clogan means "little bells" (which represent death to George).  clochan means a burying ground, and clach-choinn means headstone, clogadean means helmet, cloicin means concealment/cloak 

Sandor is the gravedigger, and his horse is Stranger (the god of Death in the Seven).  In Fire and Blood there is a Sandor doppelganger called Sandoq the Shadow. 

 

Sandor is described as "a hulking black shape shrouded in the night, hidden from her eyes"

"Sandor Clegane seemed to take form out of the night,"

"A shadow detached itself from the shadow of the wall, to become a tall man in dark grey armor."

"Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head."

"A shadow fell across his face. He turned to find Clegane looming overhead like a cliff. His soot-dark armor seemed to blot out the sun. He had lowered the visor on his helm. It was fashioned in the likeness of a snarling black hound,"

Sandor jousts against Jaime and metaphorically knocks the sun off his horse.

 

He is a metaphor for death, a hulking man with a mutilated face dressed all in black that is a shadow that emerges from the shadows and casts shadows, name means skull/boat/grave/cloak rides a black horse called the Stranger, his doppelganger is called the Shadow.  

Recall the Clegane house sigil is three black dogs on a field of yellow, and black dogs in several mythologies cause eclipses (Tiangou).

 Cleigainne means skull and in Hindu mythology a solar eclipse is caused by the decapitated head of Rahu. swallowing the sun.

The Faith of the Seven is like Greek and Roman polytheism where the gods are planets,

" the Stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast, the wanderer from far places, less and more than human, unknown and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes." 

A mysterious black planet unlike the other planets, without a regular orbit, that is not from our solar system, that is the god of death and causes the Long Night eclipse.

In the House of Black and White, one of the manifestations of the god of death is "a great stone face" and another is "a hooded man leaning on a staff. The rest were only looming shapes to her, half-seen through the gloom. Between the gods were hidden alcoves thick with shadows, with here and there a candle burning."

The Hooded Wayfarer is a wanderer from far places.

"In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger"

The Lion of Night "Beyond her was a man with a lion's head seated on a throne, carved of ebony" the god of Death sits a black throne, and has a lion's head.  The World Book says the Lion of Night caused the first Long Night eclipse.  And in Jaime's weirwood dream, he is the sun and Brienne is the moon and they are both hidden inside the cave of a gigantic rock shaped like a Lion, and in the darkness the Others come. 

 

In the World Book, the maps of Westeros have these mysterious drawings.  They feature a partly occluded (occulted) black circle, something that looks like a goat horn or a cornucopia, and what I think is a symbolic representation of a shadow, all inside a bell-shape.   Clogan means bell, bells represent death, and the black goat, the Shadow, and the Lion of Night are all manifestations of death referring to the Black Planet that causes the Long Night.  (and Cornucopia was the name of Tuf's spaceship from Tuf Voyaging, and in that story a huge black spaceship has a weird orbit and is mistaken for a star and collapses civilization by killing of the population of a planet with plagues)

Also, Luwin was making Shadow Maps with his telescope and star charts, and luan means "moon" and "doomsday" in Gaelic.  Luwin was tracking the doomsday moon, and the product is a Shadow map.  The Shadow is a black planet.

Also, in the World Book, the Dorne map has the shadow of a gigantic planet-sized crow covering a large portion of Dorne.  cro means "death" in Gaelic, and in ASOIAF crows are avatars of death.  A huge black flying thing, casting a shadow on the Earth, that is a manifestation of death.

In Dying of the Light, In the House of the Worm, A Night in the Tarn House, and the Stone City, a black sun or the dying sun as a metaphor for the end of civilization.

 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

In real world mythology St George slew the dragon

In Tuf Voyaging, Tuf created "georges" to kill dragons:

"The knights of St. Christopher, whose resort world had been robbed of much of its charm by the depredations of huge flying saurians they called dragons (partly for effect and partly due to a lack of imagination), had been similarly pleased when Tuf had provided them with georges, tiny hairless simians who loved nothing better than to feast on dragon eggs."

In the Way of Cross and Dragon, George killed off the dragons: "Then the dragons died, and so too did all dragons everywhere, for they were the living sigil of the power and wisdom of Judas Iscariot, who had sinned greatly." . . . "And according to the Ammadon library, dragons became extinct on Old Earth around the time of Christ."

So in ASOIAF I think George will kill off the dragons.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

 

On 6/15/2019 at 12:56 PM, Jova Snow said:

I am happy there is at least one of us posting here, did you ever wanted to write about Turkic influence in ASOIAF? I think stealing culture of Free Folk is similar to kız kaçırma in Turkic countries, especially Kyrgyzstan, my own maternal grandfather's mother was stolen from forest so. 

I remember writing a few things but nothing of this sort; It was about the dothraki, or rather some of the places in dothraki lands. One I remember is Mother of Mountains being Ötüken mountain; one meaning of ötüken is utağan, meaning womb and womb of the world is the lake near the Mother of Mountains.

 

[asongofheresy]

6 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

I remember writing a few things but nothing of this sort; It was about the dothraki, or rather some of the places in dothraki lands. One I remember is Mother of Mountains likely being Ötüken mountain.

 

This is true, but I always thought Free Folk was similar to Turkic peoples due to their stealing and the fact they were living in cold environment, like Siberia. Dothraki could be how Westerners thinks about Turkic/Mongolian people, there is no way for real steppe people to look half naked when it will be cold af. 

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

In Old Nan's stories, giants were outsized men who lived in colossal castles, fought with huge swords, and walked about in boots a boy could hide in. These were something else, more bearlike than human, and as wooly as the mammoths they rode. Seated, it was hard to say how big they truly were. Ten feet tall maybe, or twelve, Jon thought. Maybe fourteen, but no taller. Their sloping chests might have passed for those of men, but their arms hung down too far, and their lower torsos looked half again as wide as their upper. Their legs were shorter than their arms, but very thick, and they wore no boots at all; their feet were broad splayed things, hard and horny and black. Neckless, their huge heavy heads thrust forward from between their shoulder blades, and their faces were squashed and brutal. Rats' eyes no larger than beads were almost lost within folds of horny flesh, but they snuffled constantly, smelling as much as they saw.

This is the first time we get to see the giants. Notice how they are furry and “bearlike” in appearence. We read about female giants bedding human males and having offspring. 

With the above in mind, remember again the tales of Tormund, the one he bedded a bear and the one he got inside the belly of a giant and was the babe of her come spring. I believe these tales tell the one and the same event. Unlike popular belief that Tormund bedded a Mormont, he actually bedded a she-giant.

[Seams]

On 6/21/2019 at 2:51 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

This is the first time we get to see the giants. Notice how they are furry and “bearlike” in appearence. We read about female giants bedding human males and having offspring. 

With the above in mind, remember again the tales of Tormund, the one he bedded a bear and the one he got inside the belly of a giant and was the babe of her come spring. I believe these tales tell the one and the same event. Unlike popular belief that Tormund bedded a Mormont, he actually bedded a she-giant.

I think you're onto something here, but I think maybe the giants and bears are linked or used interchangeably. Or maybe the bears and giants are fighting for the same turf. Tyrion wears a bear skin and he is called "my giant of lannister" by Shae. (He is also called a "giant among us" by Maester Aemon.) Tormund could be an alternate, symbolic version of Lord Commander Mormont, guiding Jon in his growth and development.