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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18


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14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Coldhands about the cave.

"There's a passage there. Steep and twisty at first, a runnel through the rock. If you can reach it, you'll be safe." (Bran II, ADwD 13)

I never really paid attention to this. Is it me or does Coldhands sounds like someone who has been inside the cave at some point before he died?

I would compare this to Qhorin Halfhand leading Jon Snow through the passage behind the waterfall just before Jon emerges in the presence of Rattleshirt and turns on Qhorin, slaying him. (The description of the scene never indicates that Qhorin emerges from the tunnel - Jon kills him at the mouth of the cave.) If that parallel is apt, then I would guess that Coldhands has been in the cave he is recommending to Bran.

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16 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Coldhands about the cave.

"There's a passage there. Steep and twisty at first, a runnel through the rock. If you can reach it, you'll be safe." (Bran II, ADwD 13)

I never really paid attention to this. Is it me or does Coldhands sounds like someone who has been inside the cave at some point before he died?

That's the passage up to the entrance of the cave. 

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Putting this passage into perspective (before @Lost Melnibonean comes waving his red banner with the three-headed black dragon of House Blackfyre in my face ;)) It's where the appearance of the supposed Old Man of the River happens that's interesting.

It was another turtle, a horned turtle of enormous size, its dark green shell mottled with brown and overgrown with water moss and crusty black river mollusks. It raised its heard and bellowed, a deep-throated thrumming roar louder than any warhorn that Tyrion had ever heard. "We are blessed," Ysilla was crying loudly, as tears streamed down her face. "We are blessed, we are blessed."
Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion . . . but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. "What was the cause of all that noise?" the Halfmaester asked.
"A turtle," said Tyrion. "A turtle bigger than this boat."
"It was
him," cried Yandry. "The Old Man of the River."
And why not? Tyrion grinned. Gods and wonders always appear, to attend the birth of kings. (Tyrion IV, ADwD 14)

This is happening by Ny Sar.

Then, through the twisted half-drowned trees and wide wet streets, he glimpsed the silvery sheen of sunlight upon water. Another river, he knew at once, rushing toward the Rhoyne. The ruins grew taller as the land grew narrower, until the city ended on a point of land where stood the remains of a colossal palace of pink and green marble, its collapsed domes and broken spires looming large above a row of covered archways. Tyrion saw more 'snappers sleeping in the slips where half a hundred ships might once have docked. He knew where he was then. That was Nymeria's palace, and this is all that remains of Ny Sar, her city. (Tyrion IV, ADwD 14)

The setting for this is really interesting. Assuming Young Griff really is the son of Elia and Rhaegar (he is. I will fight you!) then the setting becomes important. The sighting of the supposed Old Man of the River could have happened anywhere, but it happened in Ny Sar. Aegon is a descendant of Nymeria, not just through his mother, but also through his father. This is something the Blackfyres are not since the blood of the Rhoynar did not enter the Targaryen line until Daeron II married Myriah Martell.

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Umber sigil is a giant breaking it’s chains. Greatjon is currently in chains. A foreshadowing perhaps?

Also, Brandon of the Bloody Blade has driven the giants out of the Reach, while Brandon the Builder used giants to build the wall. Among the major lords, Umbers are the closest to the wall. Perhaps Brandon Stark forced these giants of the Reach to work on the wall and this one Giant(ess) broke it’s chains and took a human spouse?

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19 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Putting this passage into perspective (before @Lost Melnibonean comes waving his red banner with the three-headed black dragon of House Blackfyre in my face ;)) It's where the appearance of the supposed Old Man of the River happens that's interesting.

It was another turtle, a horned turtle of enormous size, its dark green shell mottled with brown and overgrown with water moss and crusty black river mollusks. It raised its heard and bellowed, a deep-throated thrumming roar louder than any warhorn that Tyrion had ever heard. "We are blessed," Ysilla was crying loudly, as tears streamed down her face. "We are blessed, we are blessed."
Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion . . . but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. "What was the cause of all that noise?" the Halfmaester asked.
"A turtle," said Tyrion. "A turtle bigger than this boat."
"It was
him," cried Yandry. "The Old Man of the River."
And why not? Tyrion grinned. Gods and wonders always appear, to attend the birth of kings. (Tyrion IV, ADwD 14)

This is happening by Ny Sar.

Then, through the twisted half-drowned trees and wide wet streets, he glimpsed the silvery sheen of sunlight upon water. Another river, he knew at once, rushing toward the Rhoyne. The ruins grew taller as the land grew narrower, until the city ended on a point of land where stood the remains of a colossal palace of pink and green marble, its collapsed domes and broken spires looming large above a row of covered archways. Tyrion saw more 'snappers sleeping in the slips where half a hundred ships might once have docked. He knew where he was then. That was Nymeria's palace, and this is all that remains of Ny Sar, her city. (Tyrion IV, ADwD 14)

The setting for this is really interesting. Assuming Young Griff really is the son of Elia and Rhaegar (he is. I will fight you!) then the setting becomes important. The sighting of the supposed Old Man of the River could have happened anywhere, but it happened in Ny Sar. Aegon is a descendant of Nymeria, not just through his mother, but also through his father.

When I first got turned on to the Blackfyre theory, I couldn't understand why everyone did not believe it the way they believed R+L=J. Then I saw that some very logical posters that I knew were very well versed in this figment of the George's imagination were quite convinced that Aegon is the son of Rhaegar. I still think the Blackfyre theory is gospel, but I realize that there are valid counterarguments. (Of course those counterarguments will all evaporate as the morning dew by the time Daenerys knows her three treasons.) 

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11 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Umber sigil is a giant breaking it’s chains. Greatjon is currently in chains. A foreshadowing perhaps?

Also, Brandon of the Bloody Blade has driven the giants out of the Reach, while Brandon the Builder used giants to build the wall. Among the major lords, Umbers are the closest to the wall. Perhaps Brandon Stark forced these giants of the Reach to work on the wall and this one Giant(ess) broke it’s chains and took a human spouse?

Sounds good to me. 

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9 hours ago, Ckram said:

There's also Ragged Jenna and Laughing Lord if you happen to be a believer.

Hmm... It doesn't really dispell the point, but what happened to those galleys is intriguing. I wish that I had seen your thread before it was archived. River pirates are a real thing (they cause problems even to this day in China and Southeast Asia), and they operate pretty freely in Essos. 

We're talking about low freeboard, oared, medieval galleys, not large, high-sided sailing cogs or carracks, or the man-of-war that came later. So, I could see a couple of the smaller galleys of Stannis's fleet slipping up-river to operate in a chaotic, war-torn region. 

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46 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

When I first got turned on to the Blackfyre theory, I couldn't understand why everyone did not believe it the way they believed R+L=J. Then I saw that some very logical posters that I knew were very well versed in this figment of the George's imagination were quite convinced that Aegon is the son of Rhaegar. I still think the Blackfyre theory is gospel, but I realize that there are valid counterarguments. (Of course those counterarguments will all evaporate as the morning dew by the time Daenerys knows her three treasons.) 

Which treason would Aegon be? 

Let's just say I'm really interested in knowing what Daario's real hair color is under that blue dye. He's been in captivity long enough that the roots should be showing.

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18 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Which treason would Aegon be? 

Let's just say I'm really interested in knowing what Daario's real hair color is under that blue dye. He's been in captivity long enough that the roots should be showing.

Love, for Arianne. 

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Affc. Sansa I.

Quote

Only sometimes Sansa found it hard to tell where the man ended and the mask began. Littlefinger and Lord Petyr looked so very much alike. She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. Tyrion had been put to death for killing Joffrey, and if she ever returned to King's Landing the queen would have her head as well.

Wait, what?

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I was rereading today and came across this quote:

How long he waited in the quiet of the godswood, he could not say. It was peaceful here. The thick walls shut out the clamor of the castle, and he could hear birds singing, the murmur of crickets, leaves rustling in a gentle wind. The heart tree was an oak, brown and faceless, yet Ned Stark still felt the presence of his gods. His leg did not seem to hurt so much. AGOT, Eddard XII

This happens in the Red Keep's godswood while Ned is waiting for Cersei to show up.

I feel like the bold is nod to Arya... I think it's relevant that Ned can feel the gods of the North in the oak tree. Througout the books Arya is associated with oaks and acorns time and time again. She tosses accorns on Praed's grave so that an oak can grow to mark his place of death. She often uses oaks to climb to the canopy of the woods she travels through, and she practices being 'quiet as a shadow' on the branches of an oak. She eats accorn paste to avoid starvation after she survives Amory Loch's attack to the party bound to the Wall. Lommy is killed resting against an oak tree. Arya practices her 'needlework' on the canopy of Harrenhal's godswoodz and attacks the bole of an oak pretending it's Joffrey. She escapes Harrenhal through an oak door. Then Arya  'becomes' an oak tree (a nice oak tree) at Acorn Hall. She also hears the Ghost of High Heart giving her speach that goes like: "the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both". Arya and Sandor come across a survivior from the red wedding between the roots of a fallen oak... And of course, I don't believe it's a coincidence Ned can feel the presence of the old gods even in the faceless oak and that Arya is currentely atempting to become a part of the faceless men... This might be a nod to the fact that old gods (i.e. the northern identity) shall prevail in Arya's storyline, I think. 

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15 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

I was rereading today and came across this quote:

How long he waited in the quiet of the godswood, he could not say. It was peaceful here. The thick walls shut out the clamor of the castle, and he could hear birds singing, the murmur of crickets, leaves rustling in a gentle wind. The heart tree was an oak, brown and faceless, yet Ned Stark still felt the presence of his gods. His leg did not seem to hurt so much. AGOT, Eddard XII

 

 

What do you make of Sansa hiding her brown and green change of clothes in this tree when she escapes Joffrey's wedding feast? 

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11 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Arys Oakheart <=> O! He Arya Stark :D

 

Ser Arys Oakheart <=> Areo, A Shyer Stark :unsure:

I was unsure whether to “like”, “thank you” or “laugh”, since all three fit perfectly. Went w/ the laugh coz I needed a good one today. :cheers:

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On 9/25/2019 at 9:12 PM, Seams said:

This is terrific. I had never noticed before that the cage for Mance is very much like the twisted twigs that Littlefinger manipulates to make the glass house for Sansa's snow castle.

The real glass house was warm and contained fruit trees. Theon sees dead trees there after the burning of Winterfell.

For the snow castle, Littlefinger tells Sansa that they have no way of making glass for the glass house, so they have to let the lattice stand in for the complete structure. The missing glass for the warm glass house could be like the missing cloak for "Mance." Also interesting to consider that Rattleshirt is standing in for Mance in the burning of the cage, and he wears a shirt made of twig-like bones, somewhat like the cloak made of human skin?

Without going into this because I personally don't see the connections there, there is another person that's mentioned as being put in a cage, a golden cage this one.

Garin the Great was put in a golden cage by the Valyrians. 

"The conquerors did not believe either, Hugor Hill," said Ysilla. "The men of Volantis and Valyria hung Garin in a golden cage and made mock as hee called upon his Mother to destroy them. But in the night the waters rose and drowned them, and from that day to this they have not rested. They are down there still beneath the water, they who were once the lords of fire. Their cold breath rises from the murk to make these fogs, and their flesh has turned as stony as their hearts." (49-Tyrion V, ADwD 18)

Garin fought the lords of fire who were drowned by water magic and their cold breaths now rises and that's the fog and the mists on the Sorrows.

Mance Rayder and Garin seem to exist in opposite. Fake!Mance was given a cage made from branches, I'm assuming Mance in Winterfell has a cage made from steel, Garin has a cage made of gold. One fought the dragonlords (fire), the other one the Others, or at the very least the wights (ice).

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2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Without going into this because I personally don't see the connections there, there is another person that's mentioned as being put in a cage, a golden cage this one.

Garin the Great was put in a golden cage by the Valyrians. 

"The conquerors did not believe either, Hugor Hill," said Ysilla. "The men of Volantis and Valyria hung Garin in a golden cage and made mock as hee called upon his Mother to destroy them. But in the night the waters rose and drowned them, and from that day to this they have not rested. They are down there still beneath the water, they who were once the lords of fire. Their cold breath rises from the murk to make these fogs, and their flesh has turned as stony as their hearts." (49-Tyrion V, ADwD 18)

Garin fought the lords of fire who were drowned by water magic and their cold breaths now rises and that's the fog and the mists on the Sorrows.

Mance Rayder and Garin seem to exist in opposite. Fake!Mance was given a cage made from branches, I'm assuming Mance in Winterfell has a cage made from steel, Garin has a cage made of gold. One fought the dragonlords (fire), the other one the Others, or at the very least the wights (ice).

And Rorge and Biter, and the faceless man that paid Arya's debt to the red god were caged. 

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