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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18


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Foreshadowing?

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Midday came and went. Maester Luwin sent Poxy Tym down to the kitchens, and they dined in the solar on cheese, capons, and brown oatbread. While tearing apart a bird with fat fingers, Lord Wyman made polite inquiry after Lady Hornwood, who was a cousin of his. "She was born a Manderly, you know. Perhaps, when her grief has run its course, she would like to be a Manderly again, eh?" He took a bite from a wing, and smiled broadly. "As it happens, I am a widower these past eight years. Past time I took another wife, don't you agree, my lords? A man does get lonely." Tossing the bones aside, he reached for a leg. "Or if the lady fancies a younger lad, well, my son Wendel is unwed as well. He is off south guarding Lady Catelyn, but no doubt he will wish to take a bride on his return. A valiant boy, and jolly. Just the man to teach her to laugh again, eh?" He wiped a bit of grease off his chin with the sleeve of his tunic. (ACoK, Bran II)

 

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On 5/26/2021 at 10:06 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

A short of post about Jon Connington possibly having knowledge of Jon Snow.

"No man could have asked for a worthier son," Griff said, "but the lad is not of my blood, and his name is not Griff. My lords, I give you Aegon Targaryen, firstborn son of Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone, by Princess Elia of Dorne." (The Lost Lord, ADwD 24)

It's the firstborn son that always nagged me, so I decided to waste some time and go see the mentions of firstborn son. And every character who has been mentioned as being the firstborn son had a younger brother. Marq Piper has a younger brother. Jaime Lannister has a younger brother. Aenys I Targaryen had a younger brother. Jaehaerys, Aegon II's son, had a younger brother. Robert referred to as firstborn son, has two younger brothers. 

Everybody knows that Rhaegar had two children. Rhaenys and Aegon. But to call Aegon Rhaegar's firstborn son when he is supposedly his only son is a really interesting turn of phrase.

Ok this is nice

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On 8/23/2021 at 8:13 PM, Rara Avis said:

He certainly couldn't use sadist since there isn't Marquis de Sade in this world

Well, that doesn't stop Hizdhar calling himself Octarch of the Old Empire. The Roman empire was only big enough to support half that number of emperors, a Tetrachy, because tetra is Greek for four, and of course the patricians all spoke Greek. As do the Ghiscari, apparently.

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On 8/23/2021 at 5:13 AM, Rara Avis said:

He certainly couldn't use sadist since there isn't Marquis de Sade in this world, IIRC. GRRM's not the best at it, but it would be completely asinine.

GRRM’s got a Minotaur statue at Dragonstone.  That’s like finding a statue of Zeus at King’s Landing or Vaes Dothrak, err wait:

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Beyond the horse gate, plundered gods and stolen heroes loomed to either side of them. The forgotten deities of dead cities brandished their broken thunderbolts at the sky

I don't’ think he’d be too hung up on using the term sadist.

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Is he telling me to kneel? If so, he did not know her very well. "By rights you should have met me on the steps in your finest robes, with the crystal crown upon your head."
 
"We have no crown, Your Grace."

The High Septon uses "we" pronouns.  I never noticed that when referring to the High Septon in 3rd person, one would use non-binary "they."  :o

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8 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

The High Septon uses "we" pronouns.  I never noticed that when referring to the High Septon in 3rd person, one would use non-binary "they."  :o

huh. I guess the seven are one, and therefore both inherently male and female...

though he could just be using the "Royal" We.

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13 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I just read a theory about Elia Sand eloping with Aegon, it just makes sense to me now. Otherwise, what's the point of her tagging along, kissing boys and getting into trouble? Arianne as an exasperated chaperone instead of a wife would be a great twist.

That's not the move a wise king would make, more like a teenager whold make a fugitive a kingsguard. Nice.

I see Aegons story as a parallel to Robbs anyway,  a ferocious king who's reign/death reminds everyone who the real name is. Good theory!

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9 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Farwynd: As far as the wind blows.-?

Maybe as far as wind brings men, simply because they don't usually pass The Lonely Light.

If there would naturally be no wind past The Lonely Night that blows in any direction, we would know, as it'd be a strange thing, and a reason why the Sunset Sea is almost impossible to pass.

Altough House Farwynd have their main branch in Great Wyk, so their name might not be connected to Lonely Light, and my speculation might just be entirely pointless. 

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22 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

If there would naturally be no wind past The Lonely Night that blows in any direction

Oh, I should of been clearer. Sorry 

"For a start," said Ned, "I do not kill children. You would do well to listen, my lady. I shall say this only once. When the king returns from his hunt, I intend to lay the truth before him. You must be gone by then. You and your children, all three, and not to Casterly Rock. If I were you, I should take ship for the Free Cities, or even farther, to the Summer Isles or the Port of Ibben. As far as the winds blow."

"Hear me. The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord's menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws. Syrio Forel has seen these things.

 

For a long moment there was no sound but the windand the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. Gooseprickles rose on Arya's skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy. Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father's voice. "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives," he said.

I always had the mercenary company, Windblown, in mind. I thought maybe things changed in Feast For Crows. I don’t know ,I shouldn’t post in bed. A thought enters late at night and come dawn…

 

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35 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I always had the mercenary company, Windblown, in mind. I thought maybe things changed in Feast For Crows. I don’t know ,I shouldn’t post in bed. A thought enters late at night and come dawn…

So you wanted to write Windblown but wrote Farwynd insted? If not, I'm confused. 

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38 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

So you wanted to write Windblown but wrote Farwynd insted? If not, I'm confused. 

Example: When Ned said, “If I were you I would go….As far as the wind blows.” I always assumed he was telling Cersei, but most likely the oak tree, to go join the Windblown company. Now I’m thinking he may be saying, go to Farwynd.

If I were you go to farwynd?

 “The Farwyndsthere were even queerer than the rest. Some said they were skinchangers, unholy creatures who could take on the forms of sea lions, walruses, even spotted whales, the wolves of the wild sea.”
 

“His eyes, Aeron saw, were now grey, now blue, as changeable as the seas. Mad eyes, he thought, fool's eyes.”

I haven’t done the game work on this thought. It’s probably wrong.

I should add that I believe god’s wood trees act like glass candles, or crystal radios. A communication device. I have No solid idea as to who Eddard wanted to overhear their conversation.

Whenever characters can’t hear someone speaking because -The wind blew and stole the words away- or something like that, it is described like static, or bad reception, at least to me.

 

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3 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Example: When Ned said, “If I were you I would go….As far as the wind blows.” I always assumed he was telling Cersei, but most likely the oak tree, to go join the Windblown company. Now I’m thinking he may be saying, go to Farwynd.

If I were you go to farwynd?

 “The Farwyndsthere were even queerer than the rest. Some said they were skinchangers, unholy creatures who could take on the forms of sea lions, walruses, even spotted whales, the wolves of the wild sea.”
 

“His eyes, Aeron saw, were now grey, now blue, as changeable as the seas. Mad eyes, he thought, fool's eyes.”

I haven’t done the game work on this thought. It’s probably wrong.

I should add that I believe god’s wood trees act like glass candles, or crystal radios. A communication device. I have No solid idea as to who Eddard wanted to overhear their conversation.

Whenever characters can’t hear someone speaking because -The wind blew and stole the words away- or something like that, it is described like static, or bad reception, at least to me.

 

I don't personally think there is a connection. Authors)/creators often like to play with the same expressions amd words. This could be one. Maybe.

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I suspect that all of the words used in the book titles represent important motifs: game, clash, storm, feast, dance, wind, dream. 

One of our best clues about winds may come from a Theon POV where he notes that Robb's wolf is called Grey Wind and Asha's ship is called Black Wind. Theon concludes, "We're all windy." 

I have also observed that Dany thanks Drogo through an interpreter for the gift of her "silver," the horse that her husband gives her as a wedding present. She says, "Tell him he has given me the wind." 

So it's probably very significant that Ned tells Cersei to take her children as far as the wind blows. In these other examples (Robb, Asha and Dany), possessing "wind" seems to magically empower them. Is Ned inadvertently empowering Cersei by recommending that she go as far as the wind blows? 

Additional clues might come from wordplay. I have the feeling that time is an important background element in ASOIAF. The Night's "Watch," for instance, might represent the ticking timepiece that counts the minutes of the day and night. How does a traditional watch stay current in keeping track of time? You have to wind it. So that might be one added layer of meaning associated with the word. 

A "wynd" is also a name for a narrow, twisty street. In the search site, you can see the word is initially strongly associated with Tyrion but it then comes up in several chapters with the timeless POV titles. Very intriguing. 

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=wynd&scope[]=agot&scope[]=adwd&scope[]=tmk&scope[]=acok&scope[]=twow&scope[]=twoiaf&scope[]=asos&scope[]=thk&scope[]=trp&scope[]=affc&scope[]=tss&scope[]=tpatq 

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15 hours ago, Seams said:

rion but it then comes up in several chapters with the timeless POV titles. Very intriguing. 

Another champion cup awarded to you! Thank you. I was fixated on wind. Myopic vision be fools me.
     How does He do that? Slips a secret story into one’s subconscious with silent words.  I’ve tried writing short stories with that goal in mind. Amateur trash, always heavy, either obvious or a confusing and unpleasant read. His work has all meat and no fat. Meat with meaning. Not a word wasted. I wonder how He reads or views his current and past work. Has he ever talked about that? Or his subtle magic trick?

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7 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

How does He do that? Slips a secret story into one’s subconscious with silent words. 

I know there are readers in this forum who have read and re-read all of his writing - they might be better able to report on the author's skill at wordplay. I have read a few of his non-ASOIAF novels or novellas and felt they were not as subtle and skilled as this series. He used some of the same (or similar) ideas in those books, but the symbolism didn't work as well for me. (For instance, little space ships were shaped like wolves and bears instead of the wolf and bear coats of arms we see in ASOIAF.) But I know he had a devoted following before ASOIAF so I'm not the best judge. I do think that working out ideas in those earlier writings probably helped when he used similar symbols and motifs in ASOIAF. I suspect GRRM worked out the stories and symbols before he started writing the books; that he goes back over and over his initial drafts to be sure he incorporates symbols where they are appropriate or where they help to tell the story, and that he has evolved as a writer and this series is his masterpiece; his Lord of the Rings

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On 9/13/2021 at 5:41 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I just read a theory about Elia Sand eloping with Aegon, it just makes sense to me now. Otherwise, what's the point of her tagging along, kissing boys and getting into trouble? Arianne as an exasperated chaperone instead of a wife would be a great twist.

Whats wrong with her eloping with him? only time it will be a problem if he decides to wed her instead of the woman hes pledged to marry.... which wont happen.

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