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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

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This was brought up by @Crona in a different thread about the similarities between the deaths of Pycelle/Ser Kevan and Aegon/Rhaenys and I think it should be posted here. Pycelle mirrors Aegon/Pisswater Bend baby and Kevan mirrors Rhaenys.

Aegon vs Pycelle;

Some said it had been Gregor who'd dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall. (Eddard VII, AGoT 30)

 

Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought . . . until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man's spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax. (Epilogue, ADwD 72)

Rhaenys v. Ser Kevan;

"[snip] Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of . . . two? Three? [snip]" (Tyrion VI, ASoS 53)

 

"I am sorry." Varys wrung his hands. "You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make an end to it."
Ser Kevan was cold as ice, and every labored breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him. He glimpsed movement, heard the soft scuffling sound of slippered feet on stone. A child emerged from a pool of darkness, a pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten. Another rose up behind the Grand Maester's chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together.
And in their hands, the daggers. (Epilogue, ADwD 72)

Varys seems to be avenging the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon, be he fake or real. Pycelle counseled Aerys to open the gates to Tywin Lannister which led to the Sack, resulting in the deaths of two small children. Kevan, a good man in service of a bad cause, as Varys puts it, was present at the Sack.

Pycelle gets his head bashed in by Varys and while Ser Kevan takes a crossbow quarrel to the chest, ultimately, what kills him is being stabbed repeatedly by Varys's little birds. 

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2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

This was brought up by @Crona in a different thread about the similarities between the deaths of Pycelle/Ser Kevan and Aegon/Rhaenys and I think it should be posted here. Pycelle mirrors Aegon/Pisswater Bend baby and Kevan mirrors Rhaenys.

Aegon vs Pycelle;

Some said it had been Gregor who'd dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall. (Eddard VII, AGoT 30)

 

Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought . . . until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man's spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax. (Epilogue, ADwD 72)

Rhaenys v. Ser Kevan;

"[snip] Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of . . . two? Three? [snip]" (Tyrion VI, ASoS 53)

 

"I am sorry." Varys wrung his hands. "You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make an end to it."
Ser Kevan was cold as ice, and every labored breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him. He glimpsed movement, heard the soft scuffling sound of slippered feet on stone. A child emerged from a pool of darkness, a pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten. Another rose up behind the Grand Maester's chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together.
And in their hands, the daggers. (Epilogue, ADwD 72)

Varys seems to be avenging the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon, be he fake or real. Pycelle counseled Aerys to open the gates to Tywin Lannister which led to the Sack, resulting in the deaths of two small children. Kevan, a good man in service of a bad cause, as Varys puts it, was present at the Sack.

Pycelle gets his head bashed in by Varys and while Ser Kevan takes a crossbow quarrel to the chest, ultimately, what kills him is being stabbed repeatedly by Varys's little birds. 

Thank you for sharing this!

 I found the scene fit together with Varys avenging Rhaenys and Aegon (real or fake) deaths. Kevan thinking about his family and wife. When Varys mentions Aegon, Kevan reflects on Aegon’s death and remembers seeing bits of brain which is also seen in Pycelle’s death. When Varys mentions for the children, he may mean Rhaenys and Aegon.

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43 minutes ago, Crona said:

Thank you for sharing this!

 I found the scene fit together with Varys avenging Rhaenys and Aegon (real or fake) deaths. Kevan thinking about his family and wife. When Varys mentions Aegon, Kevan reflects on Aegon’s death and remembers seeing bits of brain which is also seen in Pycelle’s death. When Varys mentions for the children, he may mean Rhaenys and Aegon.

I think it's a really great observation that might go a long way in shedding some light on Varys. I've been debating whether I should make a Varys thread, I think your suggestion that Varys killed Pycelle and Kevan to mirror Aegon/"Aegon" and Rhaenys helps in fleshing things out a bit more.

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29 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it's a really great observation that might go a long way in shedding some light on Varys. I've been debating whether I should make a Varys thread, I think your suggestion that Varys killed Pycelle and Kevan to mirror Aegon/"Aegon" and Rhaenys helps in fleshing things out a bit more.

I was thinking of making a Varys thread too because I’ve been re-reading him and it seems to point towards Aegon being real. However, I’m terrible at keeping track of threads.

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26 minutes ago, Crona said:

I was thinking of making a Varys thread too because I’ve been re-reading him and it seems to point towards Aegon being real. However, I’m terrible at keeping track of threads.

I think he's very much real. If you want to keep track of threads, you can click on the "follow" button at the top of the thread. It makes things easier if you started a thread or if there's a topic you're interested in following.

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6 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it's a really great observation that might go a long way in shedding some light on Varys. I've been debating whether I should make a Varys thread, I think your suggestion that Varys killed Pycelle and Kevan to mirror Aegon/"Aegon" and Rhaenys helps in fleshing things out a bit more.

 

5 hours ago, Crona said:

I was thinking of making a Varys thread too because I’ve been re-reading him and it seems to point towards Aegon being real. However, I’m terrible at keeping track of threads.

You can't consider Varys without Illyrio

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4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

You can't consider Varys without Illyrio

I actually think Illyrio fits into this theory as well. I am pretty sure he hates Tywin:

"You drink a deal of wine for such a little man."
"Kinslaying is dry work. It gives a man a thirst."
The fat man's eyes glittered like the gemstones on his fingers. "There are those in Westeros who would say that killing Lord Lannister was merely a good beginning."
 
This is during Tyrion’s dinner with Illyrio. Mind you before this they were just eating and Illyrio remarked how much Tyrion drank. Notice how in the conversation Illyrio becomes excited and jovial when Tyrion mentions Tywin’s death. The only reason I could think of someone becoming so happy over someone’s death is because he hates him.

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12 hours ago, Crona said:

I actually think Illyrio fits into this theory as well. I am pretty sure he hates Tywin:

"You drink a deal of wine for such a little man."
"Kinslaying is dry work. It gives a man a thirst."
The fat man's eyes glittered like the gemstones on his fingers. "There are those in Westeros who would say that killing Lord Lannister was merely a good beginning."
 
This is during Tyrion’s dinner with Illyrio. Mind you before this they were just eating and Illyrio remarked how much Tyrion drank. Notice how in the conversation Illyrio becomes excited and jovial when Tyrion mentions Tywin’s death. The only reason I could think of someone becoming so happy over someone’s death is because he hates him.

I think Illyrio and Varys saw Tywin as an opposing player. 

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7 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

No. But it doesn't mean Illyrio or Varys are Blackfyre descendants either.

That would be putting the cart before the horse. 

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42 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think Illyrio and Varys saw Tywin as an opposing player. 

But if it was a competition, why would he become elated at thinking of their death? The only time I could think someone became happy over their enemy’s death is Joffrey when he heard of Robb’s death. Either way, I think it’s clear Illyrio and Varys care for Aegon. But the question is why, and there is nothing to indicate Aegon is not fake. 

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7 hours ago, Crona said:

But if it was a competition, why would he become elated at thinking of their death? The only time I could think someone became happy over their enemy’s death is Joffrey when he heard of Robb’s death. Either way, I think it’s clear Illyrio and Varys care for Aegon. But the question is why, and there is nothing to indicate Aegon is not fake. 

Because Tywin was one of their most formidable opponents. With him out of the game, it would become much easier to move his pieces. 

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2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

“There are many like you, good men in service to bad causes”
—Varys to Kevan Lannister

I noticed that when Varys said this to Kevan, he is describing himself here.

Or not. 

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3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

“There are many like you, good men in service to bad causes”
—Varys to Kevan Lannister

I noticed that when Varys said this to Kevan, he is describing himself here.

I think it's a possibility. Barristan does have a similar thought to this;

He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen. (The Queen's Hand, ADwD 70)

This is the line that has made me wonder if Varys was really out to sabotage Rhaegar's efforts at Harrenhal or if he was instead trying to help him along without dipping his hand.

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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it's a possibility. Barristan does have a similar thought to this;

He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen. (The Queen's Hand, ADwD 70)

This is the line that has made me wonder if Varys was really out to sabotage Rhaegar's efforts at Harrenhal or if he was instead trying to help him along without dipping his hand.

It’s really hard to tell Varys‘ allegiance during Aerys’ time because we don’t have all the information. However, I do think it’s possible that Varys was trying to stop a civil war between Aerys and Rhaegar and thats why he told Aerys of Harrenhal. Goes well with his line here:

”Eddard, tell me … why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? “

 

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:38 AM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Noho Dimitis, Tycho Nestoris, Oro Tendyris >>> Braavos.

Varys was born a slave in Lys (as far as we're told), doesn't mean his mother was from there. We know the slaves from Lys come from everywhere. They should be receiving a ship full of wildling women and children to be sold in pillow houses and wherever else.

There's a pattern, but there are always exceptions.

House Rogare doesn't fit the pattern and neither does Tregar Ormollen.

:rofl: the idea of a wildling varys is funny. Perhaps he is tormund’s brother and the story of half his member gone is in truth his brother losing his one.

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Septa Lemore has stretch marks from childbirth, but at 40-ish years old her breasts still look great (at least according to Tyrion), is this a subtle clue that she could not produce milk after giving birth?--and thus her breasts did not suffer any negative effect from breastfeeding? 

Ned Daynes' mother also maybe couldn't produce milk--she was not Ashara's sister, but perhaps a close relative, since Ned Dayne got the recessive pale blonde hair and purple eyes--maybe lactation problems run in the family.  Ned Dayne does say that Wylla had been with the Dayne family for "years and years"--maybe implying they had need of a wet nurse for years and years. 

Then we have these two odd passages in the books about breast size not being correlated with milk production:

Feast Alayne II:  "The maesters say large breasts produce no more milk than small ones, but I do not believe it. Have you ever known a wet nurse with small teats?"

Dance Jon X: "Each had brought a wet nurse to the Wall as well. The Norrey woman was forty, with the biggest breasts Jon Snow had ever seen. The Flint girl was fourteen and flat-chested as a boy, though she did not lack for milk."

So, Lady Lemore having ample breasts does not guarantee ample milk?

 

Also, I was flipping through my Welsh dictionary and found out that the word wyll means "ghost" and gwyll is a female ghost that leads travelers astray.  --and gwyl means "modest, bashful"--synonyms for shy and gwyllt means "mad"----shy mad / Shy Maid--Tyrion brings up the subject of the boat being named after Lemore.  gwyllias means "wild passion"  gwylltu means "to lose control of oneself" twyllo means "to deceive, to cheat, to defraud"

Wylla was a female ghost, who led Ned astray and with wild passion caused him to lose control over himself, and cheat on Cat. 

Several words beginning with gwyl mean night watch, watcher, guard or sentinel. 

Also recall that lemures means "ghost" in Latin.  And Lady Lemore needs to hide her identity for some reason, but that she is a Westerosi woman of noble birth.  And the first mention in the books we get about about Ashara: "The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes." Which is repeated by Barriston in Dance, "haunting purple eyes"

And in White Harbor, the Wolf's Den was built by Jon Stark, and the church there is called the Sept of the Snows.  And Jon's spirit animal is Ghost.

 

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