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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

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While we are talking about Jon Snow.  Jack is a nickname for John, and Frost is a synonym for Snow.  Jon Snow = Jack Frost (which is a personification of winter). 

Jack Frost was a marvel character from the 1940s who wears ice armor, generates cold, lives in the arctic, and can make ice clones, but he is a good guy.  Jack Frost's aliases include King of the cold, Lord of the storm, “the god in the ice.” He is associated with an ice dragon called the Ice Worm.

Then in the 1960s there is the character Blizzard, who is called Jack Frost who has the same ice armor and cold generating abilities, and he fights against a guy named Stark (Tony) and wants to control the weather and I guess make it always winter on Earth.  He lives in an ice palace in the arctic.

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9 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

While we are talking about Jon Snow.  Jack is a nickname for John, and Frost is a synonym for Snow.  Jon Snow = Jack Frost (which is a personification of winter). 

Jack Frost was a marvel character from the 1940s who wears ice armor, generates cold, lives in the arctic, and can make ice clones, but he is a good guy.  Jack Frost's aliases include King of the cold, Lord of the storm, “the god in the ice.” He is associated with an ice dragon called the Ice Worm.

Then in the 1960s there is the character Blizzard, who is called Jack Frost who has the same ice armor and cold generating abilities, and he fights against a guy named Stark (Tony) and wants to control the weather and I guess make it always winter on Earth.  He lives in an ice palace in the arctic.

Nice! I knew most of this but never put it together with Jon. 

What do you think it says for Jon? Is he going to want to make it always winter? 

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Jon rattling off what Mel saw in her fires;

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

It's the order that's interesting here. Daggers in the dark, followed by a promised prince born in salt and smoke.

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On 6/4/2019 at 8:48 AM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Sometime ago, in the previous thread, I posted about the ship the Sloe-Eyed Maid and said there was only another instance where "sloe-eyed maid" was used and that was to describe Taena Merryweather and wondered if perhaps the ship wasn't named for her. 

So I went back and looked at some of the ships that bear the names of characters and there seem to be parallels between characters and those ships.

  • Lady Lyanna --> Named for Lyanna Stark, sent away from King's Landing as part of an escort to see Myrcella to safety. The ship goes to Braavos and I am unclear if she was supposed to head all the way down to Dorne with the Braavosi ships Tyrion hires. Davos before the battle of Blackwater comments that beautiful ship was not in King's Landing. 
    Lyanna Stark's whereabouts are unknown for a while. Brandon rides for King's Landing where she isn't. Got to wonder if she too sailed to Braavos before heading down to Dorne, or if she was going to make the opposite journey, sail from Dorne the Braavos.
  • Black Betha --> Destroyed by wildfire during the Battle of Blackwater
    Betha Blackwood's husband and eldest son both died at Summerhall when it was burned down by wildfire and we don't know what happened to her.
  • Lord Steffon --> Named for Steffon Baratheon. The ship makes it out of the Battle of Blackwater, but is sunk by its crew to prevent it from falling into enemy hands.
    Lord Steffon Baratheon drowned
  • Queen Cersei --> Destroyed by wildfire at the Battle of Blackwater. We don't know how Cersei will die, but she sure loves her wildfire.

We have the ship Kingslander, which is named for an inhabitant of King's Landing. The ship is engulfed and destroyed by wildfire after another ship (Swordfish) explodes.

So I'm going to quote me to add the name of another ship to the list.

Red Raven was part of Stannis's fleet at the Battle of the Blackwater and is destroyed by wildfire;

Swordfish and the hulk were gone, blackened bodies were floating downstream beside him, and choking men clinging to bits of smoking wood. Fifty feet high, a swirling demon of green flamed danced upon the river. It had a dozen hands, in each a whip, and whatever they touched burst into fire. He saw Black Betha burning, and White Hart and Loyal Man to either side. Piety, Cat, Courageous, Sceptre, Red Raven, Harridan, Faithful, Fury, they had all gone up, Kingslander and Godsgrace as well, the demon was eating his own. (Davos III, ACoK 58)

Following the idea the characters the ships were named for and the ships having a similar fate, while I was reading Jon's final chapter in ADwD, the name Red Raven came up. Red Raven was the nickname Raymund Redbeard's little brother was given. And Gerrick is the descendant of this Red Raven.

Someone had already told the Thunderfist about Gerrick Kingsblood and his new style. "King o' the Wildlings?" Tormund roared. "Har! King o' My Hairy Butt Crack, more like."
"He has a regal look to him," Jon said.
"He has a little red cock to go with all that red hair, that's what he has. Raymund Redbeard and his sons died at Long Lake, thanks to your bloody Starks and the Drunken Giant. Not the little brother. Ever wonder why they called him the Red Raven?" Tormund's mouth split in a gap-toothed grin. "First to fly the battle, he was. 'Twas a song about it, after. The singer had to find a rhyme for craven, so . . ." He wiped his nose. "If your queen's knights want those girls o' his, they're welcome to them." (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

I found this interesting. I've been saying for a while that Gerrick is going to be burned by Mel in Winds.

Gerrick Kingsblood is at Castle Black, essentially in Stannis's camp. Mance is called a usurper by Selyse, Gerrick is proclaimed the King of the Wildlings and I think we know what the implication of that is. 

In the opening pages of ADwD, the rumor was that Melisandre intended on burning Mance, then burn his son, so that he dies a king as well. Instead, Rattleshirt is burned and Jon sends the baby away from Castle Black to protect him.

The exact same scenario from ADwD can play out with Gerrick that might have been planned for Mance and his son. Mel can burn Gerrick who is this so-called King of the Wildlings, and then burn his son who is one of the hostages, thereby burning two kings to wake the dragon. 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2020 at 1:03 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

It's the order that's interesting here. Daggers in the dark, followed by a promised prince born in salt and smoke.

Don't forget the "girl in grey on a dying horse" before ... and "nothing but mistakes" after.

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady."

This line is easy for a Dark Sider to interpret, I can probably sing about it.

An ADOS prediction, a Dark Side karaoke:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9NeNwEr-2k

Just a Greywatch girl
Resurrected in a zombie world
She took the dead wight horse going to HarrenHell
Just a bastard boy
Born and fled from the Tower of Joy
He took the midnight Highway to HarrenHell

Promised siblings in a daggers' doom
The smell of salty tears and smokey fumes
For a Kiss they can end the Long Night
It Bolts on and on and on and on!

The Stranger's sweeping
Up and down the western shores
Dark shadows exploding in the night
Bringer of Light!

People ... living just to find their prophecy
Betraying them somewhere in the night

Redeeming hard to get the Lion's fill
Even the Wolf wants a thrill
Paying anything to Howl and Roar just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some dragons reborn to sing the icy blues
Oh, the music never ends
Until he falls down and down and down and down

The Stranger's attacking
Up and down King's Landing
Targaryens dog-fighting in the night
Bright lights

People ... watching just to find their extinction's
Happening sometime tonight

Don't stop believing
Hold out for that hero
Bright lights
People ... don't stop believing
Hold out for that Last Hero
Bright lights
People ... don't stop believing
Hold out for that Last Hero Knight

 

... free of charge

 

On 1/5/2020 at 1:03 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

Btw, this is for Team Mel of the Pink Letter's author ... right on the money.

Edited by The Map Guy
messy youtube links

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Don't forget the "girl in grey on a dying horse" before ... and "nothing but mistakes" after.

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady."

I haven't forgotten it and I didn't remove it from the quote. I am talking about the order the Jon presents this to Melisandre.

Even Melisandre's vision in her chapter comes in that order "Daggers in the Dark, Azor Ahai." In fact, I think that we are given a chronology of events in Mel's visions. 

The flames cracked softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had see hims danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.
Unbelievers never listened until it was too late.

"What do you see, my lady?" the boy asked, softly.
Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow. [snip] There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames.
Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow. (Mel I, ADwD 31)

This is pretty much what I'm seeing with Mel's visions passage. That she is giving us a laundry list of visions. Daggers in the dark and the prince that was promised in the same passage. 

She tells Jon in his final chapter to look to the sky and when he has answers to his questions to come seek her, which is exactly what he was going to do after the meeting at the Shieldhall. His answers about Stannis and Mance and "Arya" are answered in the pink letter.

And daggers in the dark come in the form of his stabbing. And the prince that was promised, born amidst salt and smoke is present in that moment as well.


 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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On 1/5/2020 at 1:03 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Jon rattling off what Mel saw in her fires;

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

It's the order that's interesting here. Daggers in the dark, followed by a promised prince born in salt and smoke.

Nice. 

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As I am rereading the chapter in which Tyrion demands trial by combat in the Eyrie, I am noticing that Lysa's character might have been influenced at least a bit by Lewis Carroll's Queen of Hearts. 

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As I am rereading the chapter in which Tyrion demands trial by combat in the Eyrie, I am noticing that Lysa's character might have been influenced at least a bit by Lewis Carroll's Queen of Hearts. 

Does that put Tyrion in the role of Alice?

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

In fact, I think that we are given a chronology of events in Mel's visions. 

Yup. But people are so focused on Jon and the prophecy that they forget that "the girl in grey, grey as ashes ... Jon Snow's sister Arya" is a big part of this vision.

13 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The flames cracked softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had see hims danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.
Unbelievers never listened until it was too late.

"What do you see, my lady?" the boy asked, softly.
Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow. [snip] There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames.
Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow. (Mel I, ADwD 31)

This is another of George's Easter Egg about the climax of ASOIAF, an ADOS deus ex machina. Well technically its not an Easter Egg, but an actual vision.

Spoiler

Here the setting is on top of a hill by an icy frosty lake, surrounded by skulls/zombies wielding swords & daggers, with dragonfire-lit fields in the background. (yes and NO and yes and NO: stupid tv show spoiler link)

The vision is about the girl in grey awakening in ashes (yes and NO and yes and NO: stupid tv show spoiler link). She suddenly finds Jon Snow's body in her arms, silent with grief ... tasting his tears that were dropped from her forehead to her mouth ... and whispers his name. The background fluttering flames are reflecting off his face and the blood in his mouth. Jon Snow's sister could recall none of what has happened before ... but she begins to cry, loud like a siren.

Cue in Meatloaf - Bat Out of HarrenHell (I see you House Whent!)

 

Anyways ... D&D really messed up George's major plot points ... wrong people, wrong places, wrong time. I'm sure most of you guys know by now.

13 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

His answers about Stannis and Mance and "Arya" are answered in the pink letter.

I know! What a coincidence that Jon asks Mel all these questions and Ramsay answers them in the Pink Letter!!
That was sarcasm.
It is simply more plausible that Mel wanted Jon, but she also wanted Jon to want her ... thus she wrote the Pink Letter as a cheap trick.

Cue in Cheap Trick - I Want You To Want Me

Didn't my didn't my didn't my visions see you crying!
Feeling all alone with your zombie sister, you know you feel like dying!

Team Mel for the win! Even if we disregard the Paper Curl Theory, Team Mel rolls over other competitors word for word, object for object, motive for motive!

Edited by The Map Guy
digging deeper into my bag of tricks

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7 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Yup. But people are so focused on Jon and the prophecy that they forget that "the girl in grey, grey as ashes ... Jon Snow's sister Arya" is a big part of this vision.

Is she still part of the vision if Mel has seen her only once? She thinks about her, but she's not seeing her.

The girl, I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away. (Melisandre I, ADwD 31)

So the way it went is probably that Mel had seen her, went to Jon to tell him because she connected the letter he received from Ramsay about the marriage to the grey girl fleeing her marriage. Mel is trying to find the grey girl in the flames in her chapter. But she is unable to and by the time Jon's last chapter rolls around, we know we have a case of mistaken identity.

And as far as this goes;

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

A grey girl on a dying horse >> Mel was wrong about the identity of the girl
Daggers in the dark >> Jon must think she's wrong about that, so he's learned the hard way
A promised price born in smoke and salt >> Jon knows Lightbringer is a fake and he points out to Mel that Stannis was born at Storm's End, just as his brothers were, so another mistaken identity as far as things go
It seems to me you make nothing but mistakes, my lady >> He's not completely wrong.

This is like her vision of Renly taking Stannis in the rear, so she kills him, but "Renly" still came.

8 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

It is simply more plausible that Mel wanted Jon, but she also wanted Jon to want her ... thus she wrote the Pink Letter as a cheap trick.

She'd have to know that "Arya" fled and what a Reek is. Be that as it may, that was not the point of my original post. 

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18 hours ago, Seams said:

Does that put Tyrion in the role of Alice?

He certainly may feel as if he has fallen down a rabbit hole into a crazy world. He has been arrested for something he didn't do, had trial held not in the King's Court but in the Court of one of his accusers, locked in a sky cell & beaten presumably to get him to confess to something he didn't do. Sweet Robin's "Make the bad man fly!" brings to mind "Off with her head!" 

I love Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Alice in Wonderland both. I never drew the parallel between the two (which isn't surprising because I suck at that kind of thing) but I'm digging it. Now I want to look for more parallels. 

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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Is she still part of the vision if Mel has seen her only once? She thinks about her, but she's not seeing her.

The girl, I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away. (Melisandre I, ADwD 31)

So the way it went is probably that Mel had seen her, went to Jon to tell him because she connected the letter he received from Ramsay about the marriage to the grey girl fleeing her marriage. Mel is trying to find the grey girl in the flames in her chapter. But she is unable to and by the time Jon's last chapter rolls around, we know we have a case of mistaken identity.

And as far as this goes;

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD 69)

A grey girl on a dying horse >> Mel was wrong about the identity of the girl
Daggers in the dark >> Jon must think she's wrong about that, so he's learned the hard way
A promised price born in smoke and salt >> Jon knows Lightbringer is a fake and he points out to Mel that Stannis was born at Storm's End, just as his brothers were, so another mistaken identity as far as things go
It seems to me you make nothing but mistakes, my lady >> He's not completely wrong.

Nice. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

This is like her vision of Renly taking Stannis in the rear, so she kills him, but "Renly" still came.

A little off topic but this is something I've always wondered about. Do you think Mel was just mistaken, from the jump, about the identity of Renly crushing Stannis? Or do you think it's possible that it was going to be Renly originally. After Mel killed him it changed into Garlan. Like, the vision is going to come true no matter what, had Mel not killed Renly it would have been him. Since she did it was Garlan. Had Garlan been killed before this it would have been someone else. 

It always finds a way. It reminds me of the Final Destination movies. Where they think they know what will happen & so they take steps to prevent it but then it still happens in another way. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

A little off topic but this is something I've always wondered about. Do you think Mel was just mistaken, from the jump, about the identity of Renly crushing Stannis? Or do you think it's possible that it was going to be Renly originally. After Mel killed him it changed into Garlan. Like, the vision is going to come true no matter what, had Mel not killed Renly it would have been him. Since she did it was Garlan. Had Garlan been killed before this it would have been someone else. 

This is Mel's vision;

Davos Seaworth felt the small hairs rising on the back of his neck. "My lord, I do not understand you."
"I do not require your understanding. Only your service. Ser Cortnay will be dead within the day. Melisandre has seen it in the flames of the future. His death and the manner of it. He will not die in knightly combat, needless to say." Stannis held out his cup, and Devan filled it again from the flagon. "Her flames do not lie. She saw Renly's doom as well. On Dragonstone she saw it, and told Selyse. Lord Velaryon and your friend Salladhor Saan would have had me sail against Joffrey, but Melisandre told me that if I went to Storm's End, I would win the best part of my brother's power, and she was right."
"B-but," Davos stammered, "Lord Renly only came here because you had laid siege to the castle. He was marching toward King's Landing before, against the Lannisters, he would have --"
Stannis shifted in his seat frowning. "Was, would have, what is that? He did what he did. He came here with his banners and his peaches, to his doom . . . and it was well for me he did. Melisandre saw another day in the flames as well. A morrow where Renly rode out of the south in his green armor to smash my host beneath the walls of King's Landing. Had I met my brother there, it might have been me who died in place of him."
"Or you might have joined your strength to his to bring down the Lannisters," Davos protested. "Why not that? If she saw two futures, well . . . both cannot be true." (Davos II, ACoK 42)

I think Mel precipitated what happened in King's Landing, by trying to avoid it, in the same way Cersei is precipitating Maggy the Frog's prophecy by trying to forestall it. Mel is playing around with the visions to fit them the way she wants them to fit. 

I think the vision was always Garlan. Renly's armor is green and his helm has antlers. If the man's head is covered, then she has no way of knowing it's something else.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

This is like her vision of Renly taking Stannis in the rear, so she kills him, but "Renly" still came.

I know, Mel is just like D&D with GRRM's actual intentions ... yes & no, yes & no ... wrong people, wrong place, wrong time.

 

12 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Mel is trying to find the grey girl in the flames in her chapter. But she is unable to and by the time Jon's last chapter rolls around, we know we have a case of mistaken identity.

The list of cases of mistaken identities grows on with this vision.

  • Alys is not Jon's sister.
  • Jeyne is not Jon's sister.
  • Arya is not Jon's sister either 
  • Neither is Sansa "Alayne"

And why would R'hllor care about these people?

Off topic: Seriously what is up with female names anyways ... Alys, Jeyne, Alayne

14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

A grey girl on a dying horse >> Mel was wrong about the identity of the girl
Daggers in the dark >> Jon must think she's wrong about that, so he's learned the hard way
A promised price born in smoke and salt >> Jon knows Lightbringer is a fake and he points out to Mel that Stannis was born at Storm's End, just as his brothers were, so another mistaken identity as far as things go
It seems to me you make nothing but mistakes, my lady >> He's not completely wrong.

Wrong people, wrong place, wrong time.

But the "mistake" is not wrong though. I expect an apocalyptic mistake.

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18 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

This is Mel's vision;

Davos Seaworth felt the small hairs rising on the back of his neck. "My lord, I do not understand you."
"I do not require your understanding. Only your service. Ser Cortnay will be dead within the day. Melisandre has seen it in the flames of the future. His death and the manner of it. He will not die in knightly combat, needless to say." Stannis held out his cup, and Devan filled it again from the flagon. "Her flames do not lie. She saw Renly's doom as well. On Dragonstone she saw it, and told Selyse. Lord Velaryon and your friend Salladhor Saan would have had me sail against Joffrey, but Melisandre told me that if I went to Storm's End, I would win the best part of my brother's power, and she was right."
"B-but," Davos stammered, "Lord Renly only came here because you had laid siege to the castle. He was marching toward King's Landing before, against the Lannisters, he would have --"
Stannis shifted in his seat frowning. "Was, would have, what is that? He did what he did. He came here with his banners and his peaches, to his doom . . . and it was well for me he did. Melisandre saw another day in the flames as well. A morrow where Renly rode out of the south in his green armor to smash my host beneath the walls of King's Landing. Had I met my brother there, it might have been me who died in place of him."
"Or you might have joined your strength to his to bring down the Lannisters," Davos protested. "Why not that? If she saw two futures, well . . . both cannot be true." (Davos II, ACoK 42)

I think Mel precipitated what happened in King's Landing, by trying to avoid it, in the same way Cersei is precipitating Maggy the Frog's prophecy by trying to forestall it. Mel is playing around with the visions to fit them the way she wants them to fit. 

I think the vision was always Garlan. Renly's armor is green and his helm has antlers. If the man's head is covered, then she has no way of knowing it's something else.

Yeah Mel is tricksy. She talks in half truths. Sometimes she is mistaken, probably, but sometimes she tells what she wants Stan to hear to do what she wants him to do, I think. 

I know she thought it was Renly either way because she would have no way of knowing but yeah, she very well may have brought about the events in her vision. 

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Robert and Ned in the crypts: 

Quote

"Come south with me, and I'll teach you how to laugh again," the king promised. "You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done."

I never noticed the irony of this statement.

Robert is talking about Joff and Sansa. Joff is not his blood. Later, in aCoK, Arya and Gendry bond when traveling the Riverlands together. Gendry is Robert's blood. 

So, in a way, Robert and Ned's kids are bonded. Just not the two he thought would be. 

Edited by OtherFromAnotherMother

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Maybe I’m completely wrong, but I’ve recently noticed a sort of parallelism between these characters: Sansa and Hagen’s daughter, Theon/Reek and Maester Kerwin.

Both Sansa and Hagen’s daughter watch their respective father die: Ned is beheaded, while Hagen falls hitting his head. Both girls have red hair.

Quote

As Hagen came scrambling down the watchtower steps, a wolfling’s arrow caught him in the belly and sent him plunging headfirst to the ground. His daughter ran to him, wailing.

ADWD

Both Theon and Maester Kerwin used to smile until their respective meeting with Ramsay Snow and Burton Humble. Also, Theon/Reek and the maester have a dagger but they don’t use it because they are afraid. It’s possible that Reek was raped like Kerwin, but this is all speculation.

Quote
When first he came aboard the Iron Victory, he had a smirky little smile too, but one night off the Stepstones he had smiled at the wrong man, and Burton Humble had knocked out four of his teeth. Not long after that Kerwin had come creeping to the captain to complain that four of the crew had dragged him belowdecks and used him as a woman. "Here is how you put an end to that," Victarion had told him, slamming a dagger down on the table between them. Kerwin took the blade—too afraid to refuse it, the captain judged—but he had never used it.
 
ADWD

 

Edited by Gingin

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It's not really a matter of never having noticed it, but rather than start a thread about it that will get no replies, I thought I'd just post it here.

While in his coma, Bran sees the heart of winter. When he finally wakes up, he names his direwolf, Summer.

The would-be Prince that was Promised, Rhaegar Targaryen, was born at Summerhall, a place that became one of salt and smoke and fire. Summerhall is located near or in the foothills of the Red Mountains of Dorne.

Dany hatched her dragons in the Red Waste.

Jon Snow was born in a tower in the Red Mountains of Dorne.

Rhaegar was born in fire, fought on the Trident, was killed in a body of water by Robert Baratheon, the storm lord.

Dany was born on Dragonstone, a place of heat and smoke and salt, during a violent summer storm (so rain -- water). She had a rebirth in fire in the Red Waste. So she works in reverse to Rhaegar. She has the water first, the fire after. Robert sent Stannis to capture her and her brother.

Jon Snow was born in Dorne, a place of heat. Grew up at Winterfell a place of duality because it's a cold place that was built on hot springs, and was stabbed at the Wall, a place of ice. And he's got a storm lord with him, Stannis Baratheon. He is missing the fire, which I don't think will be long before he gets that. Symbolically, I don't know if Patchface can be a stand-in for water with his history of drowning and coming back.

I can even toss my would be Aegon Targaryen in the mix. Born on Dragonstone, a place of heat, amidst salt and smoke, to a Martell. Paddling down the Rhoyne, so he's got the water too. And he is a Rhoynar by blood (as are the other 3) And he has the Baratheon connection as well since Storm's End has fallen to him.

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On 1/10/2020 at 1:39 PM, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Robert and Ned in the crypts: 

I never noticed the irony of this statement.

Robert is talking about Joff and Sansa. Joff is not his blood. Later, in aCoK, Arya and Gendry bond when traveling the Riverlands together. Gendry is Robert's blood. 

So, in a way, Robert and Ned's kids are bonded. Just not the two he thought would be. 

So, that could be another foreshadowing for Arya + Gendry. 

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