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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

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Lord Stannis had rewarded Davos with choice lands on Cape Wrath, a small keep, and a knight’s honors…

House Seaworth gained "choice lands" in Cape Wrath at a time when another house lost theirs there: House Connington.

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Robert Baratheon had completed the destruction of the griffins after the war. Cousin Ronald was permitted to retain his castle and his head, but he lost his lordship, thereafter being merely the Knight of Griffin's Roost, and nine-tenths of his lands were taken from him and parceled out to neighbor lords who had supported Robert's claim.

Davos was given old Connington land, and his family is likely in the thick of Aegon's invasion.

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The views regarding marriages between an uncle and a niece (or an aunt to a nephew) might differ between the Faith and the old gods. Although the High Septon protested against a possible marriage between Prince Maegor Targaryen and his niece Rhaena, in the north, Serena Stark had been wed to her half-uncle, Edric, while her sister Sansa Stark had been wed to her half-uncle Jonnel Stark.- A Wiki of Ice and Fire.

Dude, I never realised that. I mean, from medieval ages to early modern too, marriage between uncle and niece or aunt and nephew was a legal thing, but as long as I haven't read this on the wiki, I never knew that the worshipers of the Old Gods accept this, since the Faith of the Seven does not. I tought both relate to incest the same way.

(I know I shouldn't write this down here, but since this is an actual thing, I kinda don't understand why Jon did consider his relationship with Daenerys incest. For example, in the books, a marriage between these two wouldn't be incest in the eyes of the northmen and House Blackwood)

This is actually the biggest thing I did not realised until now, and I bet that several other people, even some that are here for a longer time, did not realise this.

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10 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

Dude, I never realised that. I mean, from medieval ages to early modern too, marriage between uncle and niece or aunt and nephew was a legal thing, but as long as I haven't read this on the wiki, I never knew that the worshipers of the Old Gods accept this, since the Faith of the Seven does not. I tought both relate to incest the same way.

(I know I shouldn't write this down here, but since this is an actual thing, I kinda don't understand why Jon did consider his relationship with Daenerys incest. For example, in the books, a marriage between these two wouldn't be incest in the eyes of the northmen and House Blackwood)

This is actually the biggest thing I did not realised until now, and I bet that several other people, even some that are here for a longer time, did not realise this.

I strongly disagree, I think that in general aunt/nephew marriages are not seen as a bad thing, I think the Faith protested that marriage for another reason (I don't know the reason tho) as Targaryens have been marrying brother-to-sister for a long time, and the Faith seldom protested.

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18 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I strongly disagree, I think that in general aunt/nephew marriages are not seen as a bad thing, I think the Faith protested that marriage for another reason (I don't know the reason tho) as Targaryens have been marrying brother-to-sister for a long time, and the Faith seldom protested.

Well, I am not saying it, the Wiki is saying it. Of course, the Wiki too can be wrong, but it is an actual fact that there are no examples among the worshipers of the Faith of a marriage between uncle/niece or aunt/nephew. The High Septon may have protested against the marriage for other reasons too, but it goes against the doctrines of the faith that he's the head of, and a head of a faith doesn't commonly do that. Simply because he has nothing to do with it if it's legal.

Edited by HerblYY

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Beric Dondarrion's symbolism in the hollow hill when fighting the Hound is representative of a Gseer/Night King/Azor Ahai.

We know the Night King may have been a Stark. So if the Night King/Azor Ahai was indeed a Stark, would he have been buried in the Winterfell crypts?

This quote may hint at the fact he is buried down there with the other ancient Stark Kings of Winter. 

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'Lit from below, his face was a death mask, his missing eye a red & angry wound. The sword was aflame from point to crossguard, but Dondarrion seemed not to feel the heat. He stood so still he might have been carved of stone.'

His face was a death mask = Night King

Missing eye = Bloodraven/Greenseer

The sword being aflame = Azor Ahai

Carved of stone = Beric as Stark statue?

The Beric vs Hound fight, (Thus Beric portrayed as symbolic stone statue) takes place in the lower levels of a hollow hill. The Winterfell crypts are also situated in the lower levels of a hollow hill.

Could this be a hint that the Greenseer/Night King/Azor Ahai archetype we see symbolized through Beric here, was indeed also a Stark and was subsequently buried in the lowest levels of the Winterfell Crypts?

As many others have previously theorised, it may explain why the lower levels are blocked off. Trying to keep an evil force locked in? Trying to stop people entering out of embarrassment or shame? Will we see someone or something arise from these lower levels?

Interestingly, when we see Beric adorned with the AA/NK/Gseer symbolism, we get this description of an old injury....

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'Beric's ribs were outlined starkly beneath his skin'

On top of the other hints, this potential name association may add some weight to this idea.  :)

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43 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

Well, I am not saying it, the Wiki is saying it. Of course, the Wiki too can be wrong, but it is an actual fact that there are no examples among the worshipers of the Faith of a marriage between uncle/niece or aunt/nephew. The High Septon may have protested against the marriage for other reasons too, but it goes against the doctrines of the faith that he's the head of, and a head of a faith doesn't commonly do that. Simply because he has nothing to do with it if it's legal.

I'm not sure if I understand you. What goes against the doctrines of the faith? An uncle/niece marriage or protesting it for other reasons? What doesn't a head of faith commonly do? 

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Tyrion pairs an unusual Dornish summerwine with the quails drowned in butter when he dines with Slynt, that he later shares with Varys.

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“That’s a fine red. From the Arbor?”

“Dornish.” Tyrion gestured, and his serving man poured ... “Quite the find. Dornish wines are not often so rich.”

... Tyrion sat alone, sipping at what remained of the fine sweet Dornish wine.

...“Oh, sweetly done, my good lord.”
“Then why do I have this bitter taste in my mouth?”

...Might I trouble you for a taste of the wine that Lord Slynt enjoyed so much?”

Tyrion waved at the flagon, frowning.

Varys filled a cup. “Ah. Sweet as summer.” He took another sip. “I hear the grapes singing on my tongue.”

(ACoK Ch 8 Tyrion II)

Daenerys had found the same wine in the Western Markets

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“A taste for the khaleesi? I have a sweet red from Dorne, my lady, it sings of plums and cherries and rich dark oak. A cask, a cup, a swallow? One taste, and you will name your child after me.”

 (AGoT Ch 54 Daenerys VI)

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On 11/21/2020 at 8:28 PM, CamiloRP said:

I'm not sure if I understand you. What goes against the doctrines of the faith? An uncle/niece marriage or protesting it for other reasons? What doesn't a head of faith commonly do? 

What I was tryna say is that if Maegor wanted to marry his niece, Rhaena, the High Septon had nothing to do with it, since it is not incest and is accepted by the Faith. And a High Septon knows this. He has to know what his business is, and what is not. If these kind of marriages are allowed by the Faith, it's not his business anymore, never been. If it's not allowed, he cannsay things he said. A High Septon isn't he actual faith, after all. He can not believe something on Tuesday if he didn't believe it on Monday. If marriage between uncle and niece is allowed, he can't judge Maegor for marrying Rhaena, since he would judge with this everyone else with these kind of marriages. If not allowed (and we have no example for a marriage like this among the believers of the Faith), he was allowed to judge Maegor, which of course he did. I hope it was clear. I tried to be as simple as I could.

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5 hours ago, HerblYY said:

What I was tryna say is that if Maegor wanted to marry his niece, Rhaena, the High Septon had nothing to do with it, since it is not incest and is accepted by the Faith. And a High Septon knows this. He has to know what his business is, and what is not. If these kind of marriages are allowed by the Faith, it's not his business anymore, never been. If it's not allowed, he cannsay things he said. A High Septon isn't he actual faith, after all. He can not believe something on Tuesday if he didn't believe it on Monday. If marriage between uncle and niece is allowed, he can't judge Maegor for marrying Rhaena, since he would judge with this everyone else with these kind of marriages. If not allowed (and we have no example for a marriage like this among the believers of the Faith), he was allowed to judge Maegor, which of course he did. I hope it was clear. I tried to be as simple as I could.

gotcha! 

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On 10/11/2020 at 12:21 PM, Isobel Harper said:

Brienne has similar call backs and parallels to the D&E stories that tie her to Dunk.  I'm personally for the interpretation that Young Griff is Rhaegar's son, and his similar parallels to Egg (like Brienne) is something I see as evidence of that.  The wide-brimmed hat itself is one call back.

 

Compare this ADwD scene, Young Griff jumping from atop the Shy Maid when he sees Duck...

"Duck!" came a shout. "Haldon!" Tyrion craned his head to one side, and saw a boy standing on the roof of a low wooden building, waving a wide-brimmed straw hat. He was a lithe and well-made youth, with a lanky build and a shock of dark blue hair. The dwarf put his age at fifteen, sixteen, or near enough to make no matter.

With this The Sworn Sword scene, Egg jumping from atop a rock when he sees Dunk...

A crooked path led from the foot of the hill up to the tower, so narrow it could only be ridden single file.

Dunk led the way on the ascent, with Bennis just behind. He could see Egg above them, standing on a jut of rock in his floppy straw hat.

They reined up in front of the little daub-and-wattle stable that nestled at the tower's foot, half hidden under a misshapen heap of purple moss. The old man's gray gelding was in one of the stalls, next to Maester. Egg and Sam Stoops had gotten the wine inside, it seemed. Hens were wandering the yard. Egg trotted over. "Did you find what happened to the stream?"

 

Also compare this ADwD scene, which describes Young Griff's eyes...

Like his sire, Young Griff had blue eyes, but where the father's eyes were pale, the son's were dark. By lamplight they turned black, and in the light of dusk they seemed purple. His eyelashes were as long as any woman's.

With this The Sworn Sword scene, which describes Egg's eyes.  This second scene offers another subtle parallel, the reference to poleboats and Rhoynar Orphans (ie callback to the Shy Maid and Yandry and Ysilla)...

A look was all the answer that he got. Egg had big eyes, and somehow his shaven head made them look even larger. In the dimness of the lamplit cellar they looked black, but in better light their true color could be seen: deep and dark and purple. Valyrian eyes, thought Dunk. In Westeros, few but the blood of the dragon had eyes that color, or hair that shone like beaten gold and strands of silver woven all together.

When they'd been poling down the Greenblood, the orphan girls had made a game of rubbing Egg's shaven head for luck. It made the boy blush redder than a pomegranate. "Girls are so stupid ," he would say. 

Green blood!

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On 11/22/2020 at 11:23 PM, Walda said:

Tyrion pairs an unusual Dornish summerwine with the quails drowned in butter when he dines with Slynt, that he later shares with Varys.

(ACoK Ch 8 Tyrion II)

Daenerys had found the same wine in the Western Markets

 (AGoT Ch 54 Daenerys VI)

Nice. 

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Following the posts about the parallels between Young Griff and Aegon, wide-brimmed straw hat, eye color, trip down the Greenblood / the Rhoyne, trained by hedge knights, give white cloaks to same hedge knights (I think it's a safe bet that Egg was the one who gave Dunk his white cloak), I found some parallels between Daemon II Blackfyre and Daario Naharis. 

When Daario's hair is dyed blue, his eyes look blue.

When Daario dyes his hair purple, his eyes look almost purple.

Daario had plundered himself a whole new wardrobe in Meereen, and to match it he had redyed his trident beard and curly hair a deep rich purple. It made his eyes look almost purple too, as if he were some lost Valyrian. (Daenerys VI, ASoS 71)

Dany mentions Daario's eyes looking almost purple twice more. 

We have something very similar with Daemon Blackfyre, but with his clothing. 

"There you are, Gormy," called the rider on the black, a young man lean and lithe, with a comely, clean-shaven face and fine features. Black hair fell shining to his collar. His doublet was made of dark blue silk edged in gold satin. Across his chest an engrailed cross had been embroidered in gold thread, with a golden fiddle in the first and third quarters, a golden sword in the second and the fourth. His eyes caught the deep blue of his doublet and sparkled with amusement. (The Mystery Knight)

Daemon's doublet is a deep blue, so his eyes catch that color. Furthermore the blue and gold of the doublet are exactly the same colors Daario has dyed his hair, his mustachios and his beard when Dany meets him for the first time.

[snip] and Daario Naharis was flamboyant even for a Tyroshi. His beard was cut into three prongs and dyed blue, the same color as his eyes and the curly hair that fell to his collar. His pointed mustachios were painted gold. (Dany IV, ASoS 42)

So blue, gold, blue is the order of color from hair to beard with Daario. Daemon's doublet is blue with the gold in the center of it. 

Later in The Mystery Knight, Daemon puts on a purple doublet.

"Daemon."
Now half the hall grew quiet. At the high table, the man who'd called himself the Fiddler turned to smile at him. He had donned a purple tunic for the feast, Dunk saw. Purple, to bring out the color of his eyes. (The Mystery Knight)

The same thing happens with Daario when dyed his hair purple.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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5 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Following the posts about the parallels between Young Griff and Aegon, wide-brimmed straw hat, eye color, trip down the Greenblood / the Rhoyne, trained by hedge knights, give white cloaks to same hedge knights (I think it's a safe bet that Egg was the one who gave Dunk his white cloak), I found some parallels between Daemon II Blackfyre and Daario Naharis. 

When Daario's hair is dyed blue, his eyes look blue.

When Daario dyes his hair purple, his eyes look almost purple.

Daario had plundered himself a whole new wardrobe in Meereen, and to match it he had redyed his trident beard and curly hair a deep rich purple. It made his eyes look almost purple too, as if he were some lost Valyrian. (Daenerys VI, ASoS 71)

Dany mentions Daario's eyes looking almost purple twice more. 

We have something very similar with Daemon Blackfyre, but with his clothing. 

"There you are, Gormy," called the rider on the black, a young man lean and lithe, with a comely, clean-shaven face and fine features. Black hair fell shining to his collar. His doublet was made of dark blue silk edged in gold satin. Across his chest an engrailed cross had been embroidered in gold thread, with a golden fiddle in the first and third quarters, a golden sword in the second and the fourth. His eyes caught the deep blue of his doublet and sparkled with amusement. (The Mystery Knight)

Daemon's doublet is a deep blue, so his eyes catch that color. Furthermore the blue and gold of the doublet are exactly the same colors Daario has dyed his hair, his mustachios and his beard when Dany meets him for the first time.

[snip] and Daario Naharis was flamboyant even for a Tyroshi. His beard was cut into three prongs and dyed blue, the same color as his eyes and the curly hair that fell to his collar. His pointed mustachios were painted gold. (Dany IV, ASoS 42)

So blue, gold, blue is the order of color from hair to beard with Daario. Daemon's doublet is blue with the gold in the center of it. 

Later in The Mystery Knight, Daemon puts on a purple doublet.

"Daemon."
Now half the hall grew quiet. At the high table, the man who'd called himself the Fiddler turned to smile at him. He had donned a purple tunic for the feast, Dunk saw. Purple, to bring out the color of his eyes. (The Mystery Knight)

The same thing happens with Daario when dyed his hair purple.

Wasn't there something similar in Small Questions? Was it you? I remember replying to someone 

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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I wanted to make sure I understood what catching color was when I was doing my Daario post.

Thumbs up emoticon needed mods! 

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On 12/10/2020 at 7:56 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Following the posts about the parallels between Young Griff and Aegon, wide-brimmed straw hat, eye color, trip down the Greenblood / the Rhoyne, trained by hedge knights, give white cloaks to same hedge knights (I think it's a safe bet that Egg was the one who gave Dunk his white cloak), I found some parallels between Daemon II Blackfyre and Daario Naharis. 

When Daario's hair is dyed blue, his eyes look blue.

When Daario dyes his hair purple, his eyes look almost purple.

Daario had plundered himself a whole new wardrobe in Meereen, and to match it he had redyed his trident beard and curly hair a deep rich purple. It made his eyes look almost purple too, as if he were some lost Valyrian. (Daenerys VI, ASoS 71)

Dany mentions Daario's eyes looking almost purple twice more. 

We have something very similar with Daemon Blackfyre, but with his clothing. 

"There you are, Gormy," called the rider on the black, a young man lean and lithe, with a comely, clean-shaven face and fine features. Black hair fell shining to his collar. His doublet was made of dark blue silk edged in gold satin. Across his chest an engrailed cross had been embroidered in gold thread, with a golden fiddle in the first and third quarters, a golden sword in the second and the fourth. His eyes caught the deep blue of his doublet and sparkled with amusement. (The Mystery Knight)

Daemon's doublet is a deep blue, so his eyes catch that color. Furthermore the blue and gold of the doublet are exactly the same colors Daario has dyed his hair, his mustachios and his beard when Dany meets him for the first time.

[snip] and Daario Naharis was flamboyant even for a Tyroshi. His beard was cut into three prongs and dyed blue, the same color as his eyes and the curly hair that fell to his collar. His pointed mustachios were painted gold. (Dany IV, ASoS 42)

So blue, gold, blue is the order of color from hair to beard with Daario. Daemon's doublet is blue with the gold in the center of it. 

Later in The Mystery Knight, Daemon puts on a purple doublet.

"Daemon."
Now half the hall grew quiet. At the high table, the man who'd called himself the Fiddler turned to smile at him. He had donned a purple tunic for the feast, Dunk saw. Purple, to bring out the color of his eyes. (The Mystery Knight)

The same thing happens with Daario when dyed his hair purple.

I've noticed this before.  Very intriguing, and suspicious!!

 

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3 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

I've noticed this before.  Very intriguing, and suspicious!!

I think we have to wonder about Daario the second he starts to say that Daario's eyes look almost purple and has Dany wonder if he's some long lost Valyrian. I'm not the first one to say this, but Daario's past is a blank slate. The only thing we know about him is that he is from Tyrosh, which happens to be the place the Blackfyres fled to after the Battle of the Redgrass Field. Otherwise, we don't know anything about him. 

There's also a couple more connections between YG and Egg. Both are trained by hedge knights (although Dunk pretends to be a knight). Dunk and Duck are also sort of similar. The other thing is that YG names Duck to his Kingsguard, even though Jon Connington is against it because Duck is lowborn. I think it's a safe bet that Egg gave Dunk his white cloak before he raised him to Lord Commander.

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14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it's a safe bet that Egg gave Dunk his white cloak before he raised him to Lord Commander.

In The Sworn Sword, we see Ser Eustace give Dunk a white cloak with a chequy (green and yellow checkered) border. I think this is foreshadowing the white cloak Dunk will eventually receive and wear in his capacity as a member of the kings guard. If it is foreshadowing (and I don't doubt it - the giving of a cloak is always important in Westeros, and Ser Eustace also tells Dunk that he would have been a good husband for Osgrey's late daughter) it is interesting that Dunk does not want to wear the cloak and finds it too hot and itchy in the relentless heat and drought conditions.

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49 minutes ago, Seams said:

In The Sworn Sword, we see Ser Eustace give Dunk a white cloak with a chequy (green and yellow checkered) border. I think this is foreshadowing the white cloak Dunk will eventually receive and wear in his capacity as a member of the kings guard. If it is foreshadowing (and I don't doubt it - the giving of a cloak is always important in Westeros, and Ser Eustace also tells Dunk that he would have been a good husband for Osgrey's late daughter) it is interesting that Dunk does not want to wear the cloak and finds it too hot and itchy in the relentless heat and drought conditions.

I think it might be more symbolic than foreshadowing. Dunk refuses the white cloak Ser Eustace gives him because it's too hot and it makes him itchy, but will likely be wearing a white cloak in worst conditions, in a castle consumed by wildfire. I think it could also be symbolic for the only white cloak Dunk will ever wear which is his Kingsguard one. 

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I don't know if this was ever mentioned, but it seems like the idea to kill Jon Snow was planted as early as Jon VIII, ADwD 38.

Jon sends Val to find Tormund and has to meet with Bowen Marsh, Septon Cellador and Othell Yarwyck. An argument ensues about Leathers and Satin. Jon plans on naming Leathers, a wildling, his new master-at-arms, and Satin, his steward.

[...] Whatever Satin may have done in Oldtown, he is our brother now, and he will be my squire."
Septon Cellador drank some wine. Othell Yarwyck stabbed a sausage with his dagger. Bowen Marsh sat red-faced. The raven flapped its wings and said, "Corn, corn, kill." Finally the Lord Steward cleared his throat. "Your lordship knows best, I am sure. [snip]"

It almost seems the the idea of killing Jon is planted right here . . . by the raven. 

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