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Jon's biggest error?

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When Danny asked Jon if she was just his queen he cold have replied that they were also family ( she also has family by marriage in the Stark kids). This may have been enough to let her know that she was not alone and prevented her from going overkill. 

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Jon's biggest error is that he is as stupid as a brick in the show. I' m completely pissed what the writers did with his character. The man has uttered 2 sentences this whole season, like a broken record repeating "you're my queen" and "I don't want it" in almost every scene. I can' t even imagine him saying something meaningful and intelligent anymore. Sure, he could have said a thousand things in that scene with Dany, but nooo, he went with "You're my queen" Geez. Maybe he lost half his braincels when he was resurrected by Mel...Beric did say that every time he was brought back, he lost a little bit of himself, Jon lost IQ it seems.

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Yep, Jon caught a case of the most annoying of diseases: TVitis.  It's where people in stories don't talk about freaking anything that people in real life would (it's very similar to the movie and book strains of the disease). I think he caught it from D&D. 

Jon's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but even he can't be completely blind to her obvious distress! You claim to love this woman, and yet say nothing to comfort her? Well, now you are complicit in her actions and nearly as tainted as she is, and you've tainted the North as well. You're an ally of the freaking mad Queen, and even killing her won't completely absolve what you were a part of. 

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Posted (edited)

John shouldn't have told to Sansa and Arya the secret. Dany had a battle in front of her. He could have shared after Dany had the throne so he could also reject his claim officially, because now neither of them had a throne.

So it only served to create a circle of betrayals that contributed in Dany feeling alone, betrayed and alienated. 

Trusting Sansa was a big mistake. Dany knows better his relatives than him? WTF? 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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"Look Dany I know you want more from me but I've spent 20 odd years thinking I was Ned Stark's bastard and I'd had to come to terms once I learned of his death not just that I'd never see him again but that I'd never find out about my mother. Then I'm told who my real parents are and what that means, to you and to me. Plus, on top of that this was just before the biggest battle of our lives. So I need time to get my head round this, just a little while. But I'm hopeful that I will come to terms with it and we can spend the rest of our lives together."

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51 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

John shouldn't have told to Sansa and Arya the secret. Dany had a battle in front of her. He could have shared after Dany had the throne so he could also reject his claim officially, because now neither of them had a throne.

So it only served to create a circle of betrayals that contributed in Dany feeling alone, betrayed and alienated. 

Trusting Sansa was a big mistake. Dany knows better his relatives than him? WTF? 

 

This. A hundred times this. Why was it necessary for him to tell Dany and his sisters about his parentage at this point? He could have waited and then broken the news to her. 

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Everything was for the sake of plot. How he told her right before the WW arrived. How they barely talked about it afterward other than Jon saying he doesn't want the throne and Dany saying she is not loved. I knew a guy who found out the guy he thought was his dad for 33 years was not actually his real dad and some other guy was. Jon has that plus the weight of his actual parents being R+L. What a mind F'er.

The show has shown nothing with Jon actually pondering this information and how it affects him internally. All we are seeing is him saying no to anyone who asks him about wanting the crown and then smiling at Dany and telling her she is his queen while at the same time telling her no on the sex. The show couldn't have done a shittier job with this entire plotline.

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2 hours ago, Nightwish said:

John shouldn't have told to Sansa and Arya the secret. Dany had a battle in front of her. He could have shared after Dany had the throne so he could also reject his claim officially, because now neither of them had a throne.

So it only served to create a circle of betrayals that contributed in Dany feeling alone, betrayed and alienated. 

Trusting Sansa was a big mistake. Dany knows better his relatives than him? WTF? 

 

He's not responsible for her state of mind. And why can't she understand that he's probably feeling confused right now as well? He just found out that his whole childhood was a lie and that the man who raised him isn't his father, his sisters aren't his sisters, and now has a claim to the throne. If that isn't enough, he's in charge of thousands of people who are probably going to die. 

He's being a jerk? So is she. It's all about HER, how SHE feels. She's a classic narcissist, and her feelings are her own responsibility. Not once does she try to understand his point of view. 

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Jon's biggest mistake is his refusal to act and speak like a normal, sane person this entire season. 

Can't blame the poor chap though; if the script tells you to shut up, then you shut up.

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1 hour ago, Ice Queen said:

He's not responsible for her state of mind. And why can't she understand that he's probably feeling confused right now as well? He just found out that his whole childhood was a lie and that the man who raised him isn't his father, his sisters aren't his sisters, and now has a claim to the throne. If that isn't enough, he's in charge of thousands of people who are probably going to die. 

He's being a jerk? So is she. It's all about HER, how SHE feels. She's a classic narcissist, and her feelings are her own responsibility. Not once does she try to understand his point of view. 

Oh yes, correct Its not about her. But she is the one he pleaded for help, she is the one who had to rescue his ass twice, she is the one who volunteered to sacrifice her army and dragons and time and even the throne to save humanity, she is the one he is supposed to be in love with. And in exchange for all that he can’t even shut his mouth. She almost lost her life  as Varys went to poison her. 

What did he lost? Nada. She gave him love and army and he couldn’t even speak. 

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25 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Oh yes, correct Its not about her. But she is the one he pleaded for help, she is the one who had to rescue his ass twice, she is the one who volunteered to sacrifice her army and dragons and time and even the throne to save humanity, she is the one he is supposed to be in love with. And in exchange for all that he can’t even shut his mouth. She almost lost her life  as Varys went to poison her. 

What did he lost? Nada. She gave him love and army and he couldn’t even speak. 

He's still not responsible. A queen who won't defend her people is no queen at all. As his liege, it was her responsibility to protect the North.

He owes her nothing. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

He's still not responsible. A queen who won't defend her people is no queen at all. As his liege, it was her responsibility to protect the North.

He owes her nothing. 

She offered her help and rescued him before recognizing her as his queen. He owns her his life twice as she saved him. But I guess ungratefulness is one of the show’s teachings. 

Edited by Nightwish

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2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Jon's biggest mistake is his refusal to act and speak like a normal, sane person this entire season. 

Can't blame the poor chap though; if the script tells you to shut up, then you shut up.

True, like most people on the show.  A long meaty scene where he and Dany had a real sounding conversation about all these issues, her resentments, his confusion, or whatever, could have gone a long way.  Or, if he has a similar conversation with ANYONE, Davos, Arya, where we get a sense of his thinking.  But, the showrunners don't know what he's thinking either, that's why everyone stares into space now and the dialogue is so minimal, they didn't do the character work themselves so it can't then appear on the screen.  

I mean, imagine if the show was this bad in the early seasons, and if instead of years of fantastic speeches and lines, all Charles Dance did was grimace and stare out the window? 

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19 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

She offered her help and rescued him before recognizing her as his queen. He owns her his life twice as she saved him. But I guess ungratefulness is one of the show’s teachings. 

No, he really doesn't. She had no intention of helping him even though she wanted to rule. True to form, she didn't care about what the North was facing and demanded straight away that he bend the knee. She's so single minded that she couldn't see the big picture, that 1/7 pf what she considers her kingdom was about to get wiped off the map while she sits on her laurels because their king won't kneel.

It was childish and petulant.

A good ruler would defend her kingdom as is her duty and not asked anything in return. 

This crap about him owing her his life is just that, crap.  He handed her the North and became her vassal, diminishing himself in the eyes of his people. Her armies died because she's a terrible commander and that too is on her.

Relationships don't function well if one party always says "You owe me." 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

No, he really doesn't. She had no intention of helping him even though she wanted to rule. True to form, she didn't care about what the North was facing and demanded straight away that he bend the knee. She's so single minded that she couldn't see the big picture, that 1/7 pf what she considers her kingdom was about to get wiped off the map while she sits on her laurels because their king won't kneel.

It was childish and petulant.

A good ruler would defend her kingdom as is her duty and not asked anything in return. 

This crap about him owing her his life is just that, crap.  He handed her the North and became her vassal, diminishing himself in the eyes of his people. Her armies died because she's a terrible commander and that too is on her.

Relationships don't function well if one party always says "You owe me." 

John was the one bending the knee because she rescued his life beyond the wall and she lost a dragon coming to his rescue. She wasn't his Queen at the time and if she had followed Tyrion's advice she should have left them to die.

All she cared for she had never seen this threat or had any intention moving to the North in the first place. 

And later saves him again when the NK attacks, while his stupid sister was making hateful comments that she is the problem, and when. Dany knew his real ID. It would be so easy just to dispose him or let him die.  

Of course its crap for an argument you can't handle. Following what you say she should have left them there to die because she owned them nothing. 

Haters gonna hate. 

Edited by Nightwish

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9 hours ago, Remember said:

Jon's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but even he can't be completely blind to her obvious distress! You claim to love this woman, and yet say nothing to comfort her? Well, now you are complicit in her actions and nearly as tainted as she is, and you've tainted the North as well. You're an ally of the freaking mad Queen, and even killing her won't completely absolve what you were a part of. 

He did though, he told her again that he loved her and that she was his Queen, he reaffirmed his loyalty to her. Then Dany (who is going through a mental break) turns sexual out of no where and catches Jon off guard, then when she feels it, she again changes course immediately and makes a threat about it let it be by fear. People suffering mental breaks are near impossible to deal with and no matter what you do or say it's not going to help.

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58 minutes ago, dbunting said:

He did though, he told her again that he loved her and that she was his Queen, he reaffirmed his loyalty to her. Then Dany (who is going through a mental break) turns sexual out of no where and catches Jon off guard, then when she feels it, she again changes course immediately and makes a threat about it let it be by fear. People suffering mental breaks are near impossible to deal with and no matter what you do or say it's not going to help.

Yeah, you make good points, and frankly, with the writing going on right now with this show I am definitely not going to "die on a hill" pushing my own opinions when things are so murky on the show.  I have flip-flopped my feelings in my own head like 10 times about Dany burning the City after reading this board lol

But I will say this: Jon initially walks into the room with Dany staring morosely into the fire. Yeah, he doesn't know it is because Grey Worm just  threw Misandei's collar into the fire, but seriously dude, READ THE ROOM! Dany had recently burned Varys for betraying her, and Jon knows it is because Sansa spilled the beans - Dany tells him as much right away in the scene!  That's his fault, honorable or not for wanting to be honest the people he grew up with.

Then she talks about having no love, and he says he loves her and that she will always be his queen. I get why he would pull away when kissing his aunt, but he then says nothing after? No Explanation? As another poster mentioned, he could have said something along the lines of, "My life has been thrown into a tailspin with these revelations about my parentage. I love you, but as my aunt we are family. We are the last Targaryeans and I will support you as queen and will follow you always." I mean, Jon is going through some shit too (and I realize this can be used against my point that Jon is to blame, but only if you assume he is incapable of speech)!  His siblings are his cousins, his dad is his uncle, his lover is his aunt...Just confide in her.  Have a conver-fucking-sation. But it's not possible for real conversations this season, so whatevs. 

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Jon's biggest mistake is being an idiot.  He will never be as cool a man as Daario Naharis, or Tywin Lannister.  It's really surprising that this moron got so much plot time.

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