Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Zumbs

Gendry?

Recommended Posts

It just occurred to me that by legitimizing Gendry as the son of Robert Baratheon, Daenerys has not only created a lord of Storm's End. As Robert was the grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen, Gendry is now the next in line to the Iron Throne after her.

Yes, Jon has a better claim, if the flimsy evidence is accepted by whoever has a say when the dust is settling, and Gendrys claim rests on an acceptance of Daenerys' right to legitimize him. What do you think? Are we going to see King Gendry, or are the show runners going for a full I, Claudius with king Tyrion :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Gendry got lorded up by a war criminal. Unless she survives and he supports her regime he's back to being Gendry The Bastard. Which is probably as well for him because he seems like a nice lad who'd be killed within six months if he found himself in a real position of power.

Edited by The Red Waste

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zumbs said:

It just occurred to me that by legitimizing Gendry as the son of Robert Baratheon, Daenerys has not only created a lord of Storm's End. As Robert was the grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen, Gendry is now the next in line to the Iron Throne after her.

Yes, Jon has a better claim, if the flimsy evidence is accepted by whoever has a say when the dust is settling, and Gendrys claim rests on an acceptance of Daenerys' right to legitimize him. What do you think? Are we going to see King Gendry, or are the show runners going for a full I, Claudius with king Tyrion :D

Only if she takes the throne, though. She obviously has no clue how the line of succession works. The minute he took the throne, the line derives from Robert, not Aerys. If Aerys and his whole family had been killed in a plane crash or a sinking ship, Robert would have been next in line. 

As a female, she never had a claim to the throne as long as there were any legitimate males still living. They had a Great Council about this. By legitimizing Gendry, she bumped him ahead of herself. 

Edited by Ice Queen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gendry would be less able to be a successful ruler of (what's left of) Westeros than I would; and that's saying a lot.

I think Gendry and Arya should marry and stay in the North.  Sansa or Jon could make Arya the Lady of Bear Island; she could continue to be a fighter there; Bear Island has been home to many warrior-ladies; and Gendry might even continue to be a blacksmith; it's a relatively small domain, people might not care.  They could be happy.  However, Arya has so far indicated a desire not to settle down and to never be a "lady"...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Gendry would be less able to be a successful ruler of (what's left of) Westeros than I would; and that's saying a lot.

I think Gendry and Arya should marry and stay in the North.  Sansa or Jon could make Arya the Lady of Bear Island; she could continue to be a fighter there; Bear Island has been home to many warrior-ladies; and Gendry might even continue to be a blacksmith; it's a relatively small domain, people might not care.  They could be happy.  However, Arya has so far indicated a desire not to settle down and to never be a "lady"...

If Daenerys manages to be queen for 5 minutes, Gendry will be Lord of Storm's End. That's where he and Arya would rule. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would the surviving Baratheon bannermen put up with a bastard from Flea Bottom claiming the Baratheon name?  Gendry would be exiled or killed within a year, with or without Arya.  Bastards are usually not given their fathers' names in Westeros if their fathers never acknowledged them.  Unless Gendry came with at least a few thousand troops to bolster his claim, the Stormlanders won't put up with him ruling them.  They don't know him, there is no legal proof that he is Robert Baratheon's son; and Gendry would have no idea how to rule or lead them.  The best Gendry could hope for is that one of the more influential Baratheon bannerman takes up Gendry's cause and marries his daughter to Gendry; if Gendry is to hold the Stormlands, he would need a Stormlands bride from a strong noble family, not Arya.  

And since it's very likely Daenerys will die soon after her taking of King's Landing, who in authority will speak up and reaffirm Gendry's claim to the lordship of the Stormlands?  Will Jon care?  Will Jon be king, or go into exile in the far North?  

Gendry's best bet to end his life in a station higher than that of blacksmith, and also be happy, is to stay in the North (where many of the remaining Northern lords know and respect him from the battle against the Dead) and marry Arya, if she's willing (big if). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Zumbs said:

It just occurred to me that by legitimizing Gendry as the son of Robert Baratheon, Daenerys has not only created a lord of Storm's End. As Robert was the grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen, Gendry is now the next in line to the Iron Throne after her.

Yes, Jon has a better claim, if the flimsy evidence is accepted by whoever has a say when the dust is settling, and Gendrys claim rests on an acceptance of Daenerys' right to legitimize him. What do you think? Are we going to see King Gendry, or are the show runners going for a full I, Claudius with king Tyrion :D

Jon's "proof" is that his brother and best friend say it. In other words, he has no proof.

Ned Stark, who raised him, told people Jon was his son. He left no writing saying otherwise. He never told anyone otherwise. Neither did Catelyn. Neither did any other nobility or commoner.

And he has black hair. Targaryens have had blond hair for centuries. Yes, it was because of his mother. The thing is, he doesn't even have the looks to speak for him.

Plus, Targaryens aren't exactly popular in a nation that fought a war against the Mad King.

The whole thing about Dany being nervous about his claim is nonsense. She could have just ignored it. If people would follow Jon instead of her, it wouldn't be because of his wild claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Why would the surviving Baratheon bannermen put up with a bastard from Flea Bottom claiming the Baratheon name?  Gendry would be exiled or killed within a year, with or without Arya.  Bastards are usually not given their fathers' names in Westeros if their fathers never acknowledged them.  Unless Gendry came with at least a few thousand troops to bolster his claim, the Stormlanders won't put up with him ruling them.  They don't know him, there is no legal proof that he is Robert Baratheon's son; and Gendry would have no idea how to rule or lead them.

Indeed. People don't think of this, and it's supposedly not polite to say, but there was a wide gulf between nobility and commoners in the Middle Ages. I cannot emphasize how big it was. The commoners knew practically nothing. They ventured at most a handful of miles away from their place of birth in their lifetime. They couldn't read or write and never had anything read to them. They had never seen a map. Imagine not knowing what even your country looks like. Their view of the world was guided by superstition, with fear of every shadow in the night. They were more quiet than nobility because they simply didn't have much to say. I may sound mean - but I'm simply comparing with what a Chinese girl I know says about the peasantry there, which is much closer in time for them than the peasantry in the Middle Ages is for us. Quiet people digging in the ground.

One thing the show made realistic was when Brienne shivered in disgust after seeing Jormund's interest in her. Another show might have her say, "Screw it, who cares you're not a nobleman, you're a warrior like me!" etc. But she is a person who can read. The things she knows, about the world and about her family and about history, outpaces what he knows 1,000 times. He blows his nose in his hands and thinks spirits cause every weather phenomenon and lurk behind every tree.

That scene is the same as Tyrion's reaction to the dwarf girl in the novels. He is in Essos, and a dwarf girl tries to make him take her brother's place. The brother was killed because people were capturing dwarfs to hand over to Cersei, hoping for the reward for capturing Tyrion. So, this girl wants Tyrion to take the brother's place in their traveling dwarf show, where they would ride on a goat and a pig as knights. But while he may be a dwarf, and disliked by his father, his education still means he is far away from her. He says it pretty well in the novel, I think.

In most fantasy the commoners are clever men and plucky girls who are usually smarter and wiser and more moral than any nobleman. In A Song of Ice and Fire, that was never the case, which is good.

2 hours ago, Ice Queen said:

Only if she takes the throne, though. She obviously has no clue how the line of succession works. The minute he took the throne, the line derives from Robert, not Aerys. If Aerys and his whole family had been killed in a plane crash or a sinking ship, Robert would have been next in line.

You mean a dragon crash!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Jon's "proof" is that his brother and best friend say it. In other words, he has no proof.

Sam found the diary of the high septon (IIRC) that married his parents. That counts as proof, but it is flimsy, given that there are no living witnesses, and it needs to be proven that the diary itself is actually written by the high septon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2019 at 3:03 AM, Jarl Halstein said:

Indeed. People don't think of this, and it's supposedly not polite to say, but there was a wide gulf between nobility and commoners in the Middle Ages. I cannot emphasize how big it was. The commoners knew practically nothing. They ventured at most a handful of miles away from their place of birth in their lifetime. They couldn't read or write and never had anything read to them. They had never seen a map. Imagine not knowing what even your country looks like. Their view of the world was guided by superstition, with fear of every shadow in the night. They were more quiet than nobility because they simply didn't have much to say. I may sound mean - but I'm simply comparing with what a Chinese girl I know says about the peasantry there, which is much closer in time for them than the peasantry in the Middle Ages is for us. Quiet people digging in the ground.

But Arya is Arya Underfoot and she actually prefers hanging out with the commoners. She preferred playing with Mycah over playing Sansa. We actually had a heavy allusion to Arya "Underfoot" in her KL "adventure" when she was trampled underfoot.

The situation is also different in the books than in the show. George kept an acknowledged reserve Baratheon bastard who actually grew up in Storm's End in his Myrish back pocket, while he preserves Gendry in the Riverlands amidst Aray's ghosts, with just a cameo in Brienne's POV when she tries to look for Arya (instead of Sansa after the Quiet Isle). Book Gendry won't get Storm's End, which is exactly far more to Arya's liking. And the RL is where Nymeria's at. If Ghost going to the true North is an indication that's where Jon ends up, then Nymeria at the Riverlands is an indication where book Arya may end up in the end, as a forest lass-queen and a certain knight of Hollow Hill.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×