Why does everyone think that having the iron throne empty or destroyed will make the peasants better off.

[House Cambodia]

12 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

To be frank, as a history professor (formerly), the idea there's a natural progression between state types is bullshit.

Russia went from feudalism to totalitarian dictatorship communist state.

Japan went to feudalism and Democracy to dictatorship.

True, but they had models to work from - Marx in the former case and the conscious lessons learned in the Meiji Restoration era in the latter.  The show hasn't presented any notion that anyone in Westeros has a vision of 20th century liberal democracy.

[Fjodrik]

5 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

To be frank, as a history professor (formerly), the idea there's a natural progression between state types is bullshit.

So is, really, the the idea of discrete "state types" (eg, most absolutist monarchies retained some parts of feudalism). Or, rather, they are models. However, a progression that isn't bullshit is the move towards (1) well-defined territorial states with an (2) abstract, rather than personal ruler and (3) supreme access to resources. This makes the comparison between Westeros and Europe quite difficult. Despite obvious feudalism, Westeros has a lot of early modern traits (which is, at times, a bit difficult to explain).

The series finale was, of course, a bit silly and a bit naïve, but I think idea of an elected king was a good move. There will, of course, still be a game of thrones, but since there is bound to be an election ever so often, I believe the reasons for a total, destructive war will be less. You cannot rule out the power play, maybe not even wars, but you can make the conflict less destructive, build institutions that will survive it etc.

(I don't understand why the council accepted to elect someone from another kingdom as king, though, or why the Starks were given three seats in the Great Council).

[Vashon]

On 5/15/2019 at 4:22 PM, snow is the man said:

I keep hearing everyone say that when the "wheel" breaks or the nobles die that the peasants will somehow be better off. But generally when we see places that had a strong leader or dictator for a long time suddenly have no leader it doesn't work out well. You would have no law and that means the peasents would constantly be attacked by the soldiers and knights who have been fighting for so long and don't know anything else. Or you will just have the same thing pop up. The idea that if all the nobles die you will suddenly have democracy and everyone will be happy has generally been something that hasn't happened much. Now I am not saying that the government of westeros is good but I think if it falls you will just have absolute chaos.  Look at it this way. Aerys is one of the worst kings in westeros history and look at how people lived during his reign (before roberts rebelion) you had a very small uprising that only effected a small part of westeros. There was without a doubt people worried about the mad king doing something. However if there is no leadership you get what they had in the riverlands during the war of five kings. Absolute chaos where knights and fighters take whatever they want.

 

To be fair I have a feeling that while the characters will have a sad ending the show runners will have the average people of westeros live in a utopia now that so many nobles are dead. However it is ironic that this is what they go for  to add some sweetness to the ending since it is the most unlikely.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 2:09 AM, Winter prince said:

My take on it is that the end of the iron throne will be the end of feudalism.  There will be a shift in politics where the noble houses still remain in charge but the head of westeros will be elected.  In theory, this should create more stability and less fighting between the noble houses.

Right. But how? Is this supposed to end all wars forever? If not then well...they dont have firearms. They don't have wonderfully convenient weapons that are cheap and quick to train on and require little relative strength to use. They dont have cannons, so stone castles are still a massive stupid bitch.

 

The military and technological structure is still there. The best that can happen is everything devolving into Free City style perpetual anarchy, internecine conflict, and oppression. And the Free Cities call themselves that because the nobility and merchants answer only to themselves and not to any king. 

 

Slavery still exists as an institution throughout the world, and peasants are close to being serfs as it is.

 

D and D fucked up. They told a shit story because they wanted to pander to retards and a very specific kind of feminist. 

 

Dragons never helped this. Dragons just made the nobility even further apart from other men with even more of a brutal advantage. 

 

They have no guns, and have centuries of steel armor stockpiled and centuries of stone castles built up. So every structure that enabled feudalism is still there. And nothing that broke it is present.

[snow is the man]

1 hour ago, Vashon said:

 

Right. But how? Is this supposed to end all wars forever? If not then well...they dont have firearms. They don't have wonderfully convenient weapons that are cheap and quick to train on and require little relative strength to use. They dont have cannons, so stone castles are still a massive stupid bitch.

 

The military and technological structure is still there. The best that can happen is everything devolving into Free City style perpetual anarchy, internecine conflict, and oppression. And the Free Cities call themselves that because the nobility and merchants answer only to themselves and not to any king. 

 

Slavery still exists as an institution throughout the world, and peasants are close to being serfs as it is.

 

D and D fucked up. They told a shit story because they wanted to pander to retards and a very specific kind of feminist. 

 

Dragons never helped this. Dragons just made the nobility even further apart from other men with even more of a brutal advantage. 

 

They have no guns, and have centuries of steel armor stockpiled and centuries of stone castles built up. So every structure that enabled feudalism is still there. And nothing that broke it is present.

And I seriously doubt that the "game of thrones" is done. If anything it got worse since any noble can theoretically become king. So rather then a few options...I see this being a very bad option for westeros. However the whole ending was crap so...