"Bittersweet" can't happen in the show

[pudgiebudgie]

This was a bittersweet ending, because it provided the exact remedy to the problem ASOIAF was written to highlight: the cycle of trauma and abuse.

All the major Westeros houses had been perpetuating feuds and power struggles for aeons. They are nearly all now extinguished or set to be. This is an end to the damage they kept inflicting on their children and each other.

The Stark children, massively damaged, have refused to continue the cycle.

Dany was going to continue the cycle.

This is why it is bittersweet.

I have outlined this entire theme and how every character supports it here: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/154628-asoiafs-overall-theme-the-protection-of-children-starting-with-sandors-arc-and-his-threefold-death-i-will-show-it-to-you/

[pudgiebudgie]

On 5/17/2019 at 7:03 PM, MinscS2 said:

Alienating and assassinating her character for no good reason basically right before the credits roll automatically removes the prospects of a bittersweet ending

There was a very, very good reason for Dany's assassination, and it was absolutely pivotal to the story GRRM is telling: how the abuse and trauma cycle perpetuates, and how it can be stopped.

I've written a post summarising how every character fits into this theme. Dany is practically yelling it. Her entry is here: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/154628-asoiafs-overall-theme-the-protection-of-children-starting-with-sandors-arc-and-his-threefold-death-i-will-show-it-to-you/&tab=comments#comment-8373511

[pudgiebudgie]

On 5/17/2019 at 9:35 PM, Cas Stark said:

By any definition this is a tragic ending. 

Dany turns villain and dies. 

Sansa turns into Cersei+Littlefinger, a treasonous, untrustworthy schemer

Arya abandons her pack [or dies] so her quest for family fails

Bran is a cripple who lives in a perpetual dream state in the past

Jon is heartbroken and goes North to live in seclusion

Lannister twins are dead with no redemption

Hound is dead with no redemption

2/3 dragons are dead, 4/6 wolves are dead.

*Ned, Cat, Robb, Rickon, Varys, House Tyrell, Tommen, Myrcella, Oberyn already long dead.

Sam, Davos and Tyrion would be the only main characters you could say got a 'happy' ending. I refuse to count Bronn for anything. 

Brienne we might be able to count as bittersweet, she lives, she gains a knighthood, she feels love and then loses it.

 

Absolutely everything you've written is the opposite of what this ending means. I've written a whole series of posts summarising every character's place in the story and how ALL are about the cycle of abuse and trauma, and what it takes to stop it. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/154628-asoiafs-overall-theme-the-protection-of-children-starting-with-sandors-arc-and-his-threefold-death-i-will-show-it-to-you/

Most every character tried immensely hard to redeem themselves, and many DID succeed - the story simply doesn't spell it out for you.

[Gendarrion]

I expected a LoTR style of bittersweet, yet all I can taste now is bitterness, if the show will have the same ending path as the novel, I'm gonna feel really disappointed at GRRM, people will say that I hate it because it didn't end the way I wanted but still this show have so much potential to be one of the best I've ever watch, now It's the embodiment of disappointment of my love for Asoiaf.

[Erkan12]

20 hours ago, snow is the man said:

You mean fake dany. Real dany died when she was hit by a ballista in episode four. There is a dany imposter running around.  As for robert being a good ruler in any way... no not really. Aegon the unworthy was one example of this. He didn't have a war through his entire reign if I remember correctly. However he let the realm fall apart and that led to war. If the following king hadn't have been so good and then the first aerys (who came right after) didn't have the political genius and skill of blood raven as his hand who was really the true king during that time then you would have had something like the war of five kings back then. However you didn't have a great king coming after robert you had joffrey who even if things had been perfect would have caused alot of trouble. Part of the job of the king is to make your kingdom safe and prosperous even after you die or at least have some sort of foundation made for it. Robert spent fourteen or fifteen years (according to the book since jon was born during the war and he was only fourteen when the first book started) essentially drinking and sleeping with any women who he could see and running up a MASSIVE debt and allowing people like little finger to further their self interest at the cost of the realm. The damn holding the sh**show that was the war of five kings and what came afterwards may have broken AFTER roberts death but he  had made it crack and made it have a record rainfall for years (okay a little forced but you get my meaning) which led to the dam breaking in the first place.

Yeah right, and they killed fake dany too.

We know why Joffrey was a little shit, its because Cersei indulged him, and they plotted against Robert with incest born bastards, that's not an argument, if Ned wasn't merciful, they should have executed both Cersei and her bastard children in Season 1.

It's not Robert's fault that Cersei was evil.

[Lion of the West]

19 hours ago, Nightwish said:

Tolkien can’t be more straightforward in his books. It is a classical good evil story with the good guys ALL surviving after accomplishing a very difficult task and the bad guys lose. To be honest I don’t know what GM means in the quote above. People remember LOTR for the epic journey it offered, the meaningful messages it had and the satisfaction it delivered. 

If he judges that people remember the sadness he judges it wrong. Perhaps he does but already his book is filled with death and crimes and betrayal. I don’t understand how he can think of his own end being bittersweet after all the tragedy he offers? 

Bittesweet stood in LOTR because it was overall  happy and a little sadness in the end just made it more real and balanced the story. 

here you have the opposite: a bitter sad story which is balanced with what? A more sad, depressed and nihilistic closure?

What I am reading?

You are reading a series which isn't about the reader feeling good for five minutes before you move on and forget about the story or celebrating bloody violence on "the other side" without consequences. I won't know for sure what the story is for me until I've read all the books but I think that I know that GRRM wants to engage his readers on a more intellectual level.

But we'll have to wait until we can know for sure what the story is ultimately about, and very probably the meaning of the story will change with the reader.

[snow is the man]

6 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

Yeah right, and they killed fake dany too.

We know why Joffrey was a little shit, its because Cersei indulged him, and they plotted against Robert with incest born bastards, that's not an argument, if Ned wasn't merciful, they should have executed both Cersei and her bastard children in Season 1.

It's not Robert's fault that Cersei was evil.

Robert knew cersei was scheming and such but ignored it. He let the kingdom fall apart. He was an incompetent ruler who let his kingdom fall apart. He didn't HAVE to take the throne. He could have said no just like rob could have said no when he was made king of the north.  Obviously cersei made matters ALOT worse I am not arguing she is a horrific person. However in the show robert pushed cersei away and treated her like garbage and humiliated her in public by whoring around constantly and even in front of her. Yeah she was evil but I imagine he didn't help matters. Robert desrved worse then he got. He had a duty as king and he  ignored it and let people destroy the kingdom through corruption.