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This ending is nothing but Bitter

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1 hour ago, Empress Sansa said:

The common people in Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably had nothing to do with the right wing in command delaying the Japanese surrender. If the Yanks had incinerated the Emperor first it would´ve made a lot more sense!

Out for a beer.

Yes but Truman et all didn't care about the Japanese people. They just wanted Japan to surrender. Daenerys, up until this episode, had been established as a woman who cared about commoners. Who wanted to "break the wheel." Then she started burning them alive by the hundreds of thousands. 

If her goal was to demonstrate her power she'd already done so. She had singlehandedly annihilated the defenses of King's Landing and destroyed the Iron Fleet and the Golden Company. She could then fly up to the Red Keep and burn it down while having every Lannister who wasn't incinerated hunted down and killed. That would be an understandable if terrible action. Wiping out the common people of King's Landing (while ignoring said Red Keep and giving Cersei Lannister time to flee) is not.

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2 hours ago, madhikun said:

If GRRM ends up finishing the books, I recommend reading them. If he never does, don't bother.

IF if finishes the books, and that's a really big if, then I might give them a read. Can't be worse than the show at this point, that's for damn sure. 

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Jon shouldn't be king but who is Grey worm to demand a anything cause there queen and Dragon is gone. Jon will likely choose to go north.

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If what people are saying on this thread and Bran ends up on the thrones, that just doesn't make any sense?

"I'm not the lord of Winterfell, I'm not a lord of anything" being repeatedly said by Bran. "You don't want to be me, I mainly live in the past" 

Didn't they cut down all the Werewood trees in the south (apart from a few mentioned in the books, which aren't relevant in the show). Why would he go south, where his powers of seeing throught the werewood net would be null and void. If Bran ends up in power thats just the worst possible ending, and a huge condradiction to his character arc.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, divica said:

Did they know where he was?

And in order to compare the situation the japanese would need to surrender and only after that the americans drop the bomb… 

Did Dany know where Cersei was? Assuming she was having a tea in her Red Keep´s rooms above during the battle (as you mention somewhere) is the same as thinking of Hirohito playing cricket in the Imperial Palace gardens during the bombings of Tokyo.

Japan was already defeated and we all know it. You just keep justifying the actual 'hundreds of thousands' japanese civilian deaths in there because they 'didn´t surrendered' or worst, 'Truman just didn´t care about them', but blame Dany because 'she was caring and cute' before doing basically the same. Do i have to post Hitler with his dogs for another time?

Edited by Empress Sansa

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4 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Did Dany know where Cersei was? Assuming she was having a tea in her Red Keep´s rooms above during the battle (as you mention somewhere) is the same as thinking of Hirohito playing cricket in the Imperial Palace gardens during the bombings of Tokyo.

Japan was already defeated and we all know it. You just keep justifying the actual 'hundreds of thousands' japanese civilian deaths in there because they 'didn´t surrendered' or worst, 'Truman just didn´t care about them', but blame Dany because 'she was caring and cute' before doing basically the same. Do i have to post Hitler with his dogs for another time?

OK.  Let's not go there.

What's the saying?  The first person to bring up the H-guy or the N-group looses the argument.

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Just now, The One Who Kneels said:

If her goal was to demonstrate her power she'd already done so. She had singlehandedly annihilated the defenses of King's Landing and destroyed the Iron Fleet and the Golden Company. She could then fly up to the Red Keep and burn it down while having every Lannister who wasn't incinerated hunted down and killed. That would be an understandable if terrible action. Wiping out the common people of King's Landing (while ignoring said Red Keep and giving Cersei Lannister time to flee) is not.

Read that as if Dany is the US and everything King´s Landing is Japan, and you keep telling the Pacific Theater story by the letter.

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6 hours ago, Empress Sansa said:

The common people in Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably had nothing to do with the right wing in command delaying the Japanese surrender. If the Yanks had incinerated the Emperor first it would´ve made a lot more sense!

Out for a beer.

Actually, no.  W/o an Emperor or a Prime Minister, who could surrender? 

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Tywin Tytosson said:

Actually, no.  W/o an Emperor or a Prime Minister, who could surrender? 

The common folk, as in King´s Landing. Just cry out loud and ring the bells...

Edited by Empress Sansa

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1 minute ago, Empress Sansa said:

The common folk, as in King´s Landing. Just cry out loud and ring the bells...

Really?  Who would take charge and communicate the surrender?  There are no bells to ring.  The Army would go along with this?  I would think not.  The Army laid down their arms at the behest of the Emperor.  They would not do that for the common folk.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Did Dany know where Cersei was? Assuming she was having a tea in her Red Keep´s rooms above during the battle (as you mention somewhere) is the same as thinking of Hirohito playing cricket in the Imperial Palace gardens during the bombings of Tokyo.

Japan was already defeated and we all know it. You just keep justifying the actual 'hundreds of thousands' japanese civilian deaths in there because they 'didn´t surrendered' or worst, 'Truman just didn´t care about them', but blame Dany because 'she was caring and cute' before doing basically the same. Do i have to post Hitler with his dogs for another time?

Truman cared about the half-million forecasted American casualties if the Home Islands were invaded.  As he should have.

In 1945, nobody knew that Japan was defeated. 

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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Posted (edited)

I was expecting you coming with that, but those are just forecasts in a pretty impredecible scenario. Yet America didn´t put a single civilian death on the table in the Pacific, unlike the very real hundreds of thousands death inocents in Japan (likely around a million, if not more).

*I am not being 'anti-American' here. Almost everyone has done it at some point. Just like Dany.

Edited by Empress Sansa

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On 5/17/2019 at 11:50 AM, MinscS2 said:

Haven't read the books (was considering to before S8 aired...F that), but given that Anakins decent from Good Jedi into darkness and Darth Vader was better paced, nuanced and written (over the course of less than two full movies) than Daenerys decent from Beloved Mhysa, protector of the downtrodden, into Psychopathic killer who kills the downtrodden for shits and giggles, then I'm sure that books-characters are better seeded indeed.

You should read the books.  They are quite good.  Most of the details for S1-S5 and parts of S6 come from the books.  I will warn you though - Dany is not as positively represented in the books as she is in the show.  She has a few more shades of grey to her character.

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2 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

I was expecting you coming with that, but those are just forecasts in a pretty impredecible scenario. Yet America didn´t put a single civilian death on the table in the Pacific, unlike the very real hundreds of thousands death inocents in Japan (likely around a million, if not more).

*I am not being 'anti-American' here. Almost everyone has done it at some point. Just like Dany.

Right.  Unpredictable scenario.  So you win the war with he minimum casualties.  Not a single civilian death?  At all?  I'll call malarky on that.
Japan was very brutal in how they waged war and how they treated enemy combatants and civilians.  Do we need to bring their campaigns in China into the discussion?

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Posted (edited)

Did Germany really need to do this for some reason? Of course not. But it happened, as someone at the top considered it necessary, unfortunately. I just find Dany´s 'episode' not to be that infrequent in reality. That is my point.

Edited by Empress Sansa

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Just now, Tywin Tytosson said:

Japan was very brutal in how they waged war and how they treated enemy combatants and civilians.  Do we need to bring their campaigns in China into the discussion?

I fully agree on that. You can bring it up if you wish, as it just adds to my whole point.

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Just now, Tywin Tytosson said:

OK.  Enough WWII distractions.  Let's get back on topic.  Whatever it was.

Ok. Time to bed here in Essos. Dracarys!

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3 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Ok. Time to bed here in Essos. Dracarys!

Have good night. 

 

8 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

I just find Dany´s 'episode' not to be that infrequent in reality. That is my point.

It would appear that we agree re. Dany and her 'episode'.  It is sadly not infrequent in reality.

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Alt Shift X makes a great point about Episode 5 and where the finale is heading. He concludes that:

"Overall, this is a very dark episode. Hundreds of thousands are killed by the woman we thought was a hero. Jamie fails to become a better man and dies with his hateful sister. All of Jon's heroism, Varys' scheming and Tyrion's supposed intelligence did nothing to prevent this disaster. Is Game of Thrones really this bleak and nihilistic? 

Thrones-author GRRM says "his worldview is anything but nihilistic". Thrones is full of death and darkness, but the darkness is there to better show the light of human struggles against the darkness: "Men's lives have meaning, not their deaths". And yet this episode has little but death.  There's a sense of inevitability. Varys talks about Targaryen madness as though Daenerys was destined to repeat her fathers sins. Jamie just accepts that he can never be better than the hateful man he was. The Hound basically commits suicide by Mountain. It is as though all of these characters hopes and growth were for nothing. The dream of a better world, is ash. So what was the point of this story if it just ends with failure and death. The Thrones-books always have some sense of meaning against the darkness. Their ending will be bittersweet, not just bitter. If Thrones is to be true to it's source material and is to rise above empty nihilism, it needs to show some hope in the series' finale next week."


I genuinely couldn't agree more with the man.

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