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Beardy the Wildling

Who's hyped for Episode 6 for unintended reasons?

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I'm hyped, I'm pretending that the last season or two hasn't played out the way it has and going into the final episode with a positive frame of mind. Its not about how well your team played but the final result at the whistle is basically how I'm preparing myself for it and hopefully I'll leave happy.

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I think I've said this before but I am here for the reactions. I will love them I 'm certain as the show's ending is a total garbage. 

It should be categorized as a fantasy soap opera. 

Well since we can't avoid at least we can enjoy it :rofl:   

 

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Just now, Ser Gareth said:

It's been there since season one.  Every time she gets emotionally upset, she does something terrible.  It's been escalating over the seasons because her Dragons are stronger and more powerful.

I'd be interested in reading about Jon Connington burning KL.  That's the first I've heard that he will completely destroy King's Landing and leave nothing left of it.  Dany is going to be pretty pissed to come and take the Iron Throne to find out it has been burned to the ground!

She's simply attacked her attackers or other oppressors, or executed her enemies in a fucking war. Maybe she relished in an enemy's death, but do you know who else has in this shit show?

Sansa Stark: Smirked when feeding her abuser to dogs. Not considered a mad queen, would be stupid if she suddenly flipped a switch and started rounding up Winterfell peasants to be gassed.

Arya Stark: Relished in slitting a paedophile's throat, relished in killing Freys, putting them in pies, and slitting another asshole's throat, mass-poisoned a bunch of people, casually threatened to flay her sister's face. Not considered to be a mad queen, considered a sympathetic POV to follow through King's Landing despite the fact that if there's anyone who would use a dragon to wreak havoc, it would be her.

Heck, even Jon stared at a child who tried to kill him as he died, and that execution was perfectly understandable. I would not consider it a buildup to mad king Jon.

If this show had anything resembling subtlety and treated all psychopathy/sociopathy as equal, leading to payoffs that make sense, I'd go along with your 'iT wAs FoReShAdOwEd' thing, but the truth is, that's just the bullshit D&D have decided to go with. In truth, they didn't build it up as extensively as they could so it would 'subvert expectations', just like their darling scene, the red wedding.

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Just now, Beardy the Wildling said:

She's simply attacked her attackers or other oppressors, or executed her enemies in a fucking war. Maybe she relished in an enemy's death, but do you know who else has in this shit show?

Sansa Stark: Smirked when feeding her abuser to dogs. Not considered a mad queen, would be stupid if she suddenly flipped a switch and started rounding up Winterfell peasants to be gassed.

Arya Stark: Relished in slitting a paedophile's throat, relished in killing Freys, putting them in pies, and slitting another asshole's throat, mass-poisoned a bunch of people, casually threatened to flay her sister's face. Not considered to be a mad queen, considered a sympathetic POV to follow through King's Landing despite the fact that if there's anyone who would use a dragon to wreak havoc, it would be her.

Heck, even Jon stared at a child who tried to kill him as he died, and that execution was perfectly understandable. I would not consider it a buildup to mad king Jon.

If this show had anything resembling subtlety and treated all psychopathy/sociopathy as equal, leading to payoffs that make sense, I'd go along with your 'iT wAs FoReShAdOwEd' thing, but the truth is, that's just the bullshit D&D have decided to go with. In truth, they didn't build it up as extensively as they could so it would 'subvert expectations', just like their darling scene, the red wedding.

It's not the response, it is the manner of her response.  She's never flinched from being cruel when she feels justified in her actions.

Dragging the wine seller behind her horse, not caring when her own brother was executed in front of her, burning people alive (which validated her actions as it led to the birth of three dragons), ordering the mass execution of hundreds of people when she bought the Unsullied, gutting and stringing up hundreds of people and nailing them to signposts etc.

For the record, I don't think Dany is mad in the same way that Aerys was mad.  She's not insane.  Living with the Dothraki set on the path of becoming a psychopath and that combined with an iron cast certainty of entitlement has led her to where she is now.

As for Sansa and Arya.  Arya is full on psycho.  Sansa has learned from Cersei and Littlefinger.

Surely treating all psychopathy as equal is less subtle than not doing so?  Because psychopathy isn't equal.  Not by a long shot.  If a show did that, it would be simplistic and therefore not subtle?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

She's never flinched from being cruel when she feels justified in her actions.

I agree, when she feels justified. But what justification does going apeshit on civilians do when she has the surrender she wants?

Although, I'm thankful you at least think Arya is full-on psycho. I take it you don't think D&D should be using her as a sympathetic POV, then? Because they claim they followed Arya during Ep 5 because the audience cares about Arya. I for one couldn't be rooting for a more dead person than her XD

As for 'equal', not saying you shouldn't take different psychoses into account, but simply not treat Sansa and Arya's psychopathy as 'empowering' and Dany's as 'foreshadowing she'd go completely nuts and burn civvies'.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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4 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I agree, when she feels justified. But what justification does going apeshit on civilians do when she has the surrender she wants?

Although, I'm thankful you at least think Arya is full-on psycho. I take it you don't think D&D should be using her as a sympathetic POV, then? Because they claim they followed Arya during Ep 5 because the audience cares about Arya. I for one couldn't be rooting for a more dead person than her XD

As for 'equal', not saying you shouldn't take different psychoses into account, but simply not treat Sansa and Arya's psychopathy as 'empowering' and Dany's as 'foreshadowing she'd go completely nuts and burn civvies'.

She feels justified because she has convinced herself she'll never be loved in Westeros and the only way for her to rule is through fear.  I don't disagree the show did a bad job of conveying this though.  They didn't build up how isolated and hurt she was.  There should have been a whole episode of that before launching into the next blockbuster battle.

As for Arya, I think the whole point is there are very few sympathetic POVs in the entire tale.  I don't think Arya has been treated sympathetically in the show either.  They've shown her become battle hardened and unfeeling.

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Just now, Ser Gareth said:

They didn't build up how isolated and hurt she was.  There should have been a whole episode of that before launching into the next blockbuster battle.

Exactly. All we needed was some build up. I was down for Mad Queen Dany, all we needed was some build-up beyond 'Deny the nephew D, ring some bells, woo, it's CRAAAAAZY DANY'S DRAGONFIRE DISCOUNTS!'

As for Arya... while I think most viewers with a brain think she's unsympathetic, ask your average idiot show-watcher. Or better, D&D, who says that we're supposed to care so much for poor wittle vulnerable Arya, and that's why she was shoehorned into King's Landing.

It's a shame that any possible nuance and cleverness on the screen of GoT gets shot down by its own creators while they're circlejerking themselves. I wonder how self-congratulatory the inside the episode will be.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

She feels justified because she has convinced herself she'll never be loved in Westeros and the only way for her to rule is through fear.  I don't disagree the show did a bad job of conveying this though.  They didn't build up how isolated and hurt she was.  There should have been a whole episode of that before launching into the next blockbuster battle.

 

 

Please don't justify their bad writing by saying that the fans were the crazy ones here for not seeing Dany's built up to a Mad Queen.

This is hilarious as it gets: justifying Dany going insane by trying to persuade the fans that they were insane for not seeing it in a universe where all the characters from the villains to the good ones are doing murders, executions, betrayals, incest and they only thing that the show hasn't shown yet is pedophilia. 

:rofl:

In fact I believe it is totally the opposite: neither did they do a built-up, neither would they have wanted to do one in order to get shock and awe from the audience. 

Like Jon's arc: they threw all the built up away for "surprise" it is Arya. 

LOL, yes it could have been Arya, Cersei, the Hound, now that I think of it Hodor, if not dead. Sam. We should be thankful we didn't get NK arc to finish with the little mermaid. :rofl:

Which wouldn't be bad as an idea because some fans had indeed foreseen Arya. So the mermaid as a suprise would have been better. 

 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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Just now, Nightwish said:

 

Please don't justify them for their bad writing like saying that the fans were the crazy ones here for not seeing Dany's built up to a Mad Queen.

This is hilarious as it gets: justifying Dany going insane by trying to persuade the fans that they were insane for not seeing it in a universe where all the characters from the villains to the good ones are doing murders, executions, betrayals, incest and they only thing that the show hasn't shown yet is pedophilia. 

:rofl:

In fact I believe it is totally the opposite: neither did they do a built-up, neither would they have wanted to do one in order to get shock and awe from the audience. 

Like Jon's arc: they threw all the built up away for "surprise" it is Arya. 

LOL, yes it could have been Arya, Cersei, the Hound, now that I think of it Hodor, if not dead. Sam. We should be thankful we didn't get NK arc to finish with the little mermaid. :rofl:

Which wouldn't be bad as an idea because some fans had indeed foreseen Arya. So the mermaid as a suprise would have been better. 

 

 

Where have I justified their bad writing?  The writing was awful.

They telegraphed this for a long time.  Burning of the Tarlys and everyone's reaction to it.  Jon commenting about the same old shit if she burned King's Landing etc.  She's been doing awful stuff for a long time but during those times the audience was rooting for her.  Her actions haven't changed that much, only the perception of her.

Arya's arc is now obvious in hindsight.  There has always been this thing about what exactly do the FM want.  Well I think it's obvious now that Jaqen meeting Arya was no accident, nor was how he was taken in by her.  The show haven't conveyed this, but her killing the NK (Great Other or whoever else it'll be in the book, but they'll have a leader for sure) is on the cards in the books too, thanks to her FM training.  I always wondered what the point in it was, seems a bit of a waste if it was just to kill other people.

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9 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

They telegraphed this for a long time.  Burning of the Tarlys and everyone's reaction to it. 

Burning 2 PoW's (one which insulted her continuously after defeat) for refusing to kneel or take the black = Burning thousands of civilian innocents and destroying a city that she had already conquered.

Nice telegraphing. :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Where have I justified their bad writing?  The writing was awful.

They telegraphed this for a long time.  Burning of the Tarlys and everyone's reaction to it.  Jon commenting about the same old shit if she burned King's Landing etc.  She's been doing awful stuff for a long time but during those times the audience was rooting for her.  Her actions haven't changed that much, only the perception of her.

Arya's arc is now obvious in hindsight.  There has always been this thing about what exactly do the FM want.  Well I think it's obvious now that Jaqen meeting Arya was no accident, nor was how he was taken in by her.  The show haven't conveyed this, but her killing the NK (Great Other or whoever else it'll be in the book, but they'll have a leader for sure) is on the cards in the books too, thanks to her FM training.  I always wondered what the point in it was, seems a bit of a waste if it was just to kill other people.

Sorry you don't understand your own contradiction here but never mind.

https://www.eonline.com/news/1036409/why-arya-stark-was-always-going-to-be-the-game-of-thrones-savior

"We hoped to kind of avoid the expected. Jon Snow has always been the hero, the one who's been the savior, but it just didn't seem right to us, for this moment," Benioff said." 

The point of their sayings is that they were rooting for the surprise not the built up. (Arya vs Jon) So if you had guessed it or foreseen it, I guess I am right they should have put little mermaid. 

And I do believe this is their logic and its really simple. Going all through that script and trying to find specific hints its hilarious and time wasted as everything applies for any character: from cruel actions to super powers. They just have put the cards down and pick anything they want because they can and because they know that fans are far better in explaining the unexplainable than they are. 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

Burning 2 PoW's (one which insulted her continuously after defeat) for refusing to kneel or take the black = Burning thousands of civilian innocents and destroying a city that she had already conquered.

Nice telegraphing. :rolleyes:

Burning Mirri, locking her ex handmaiden in a vault, reneging instantly on a deal with the Unsullied and killing hundreds, nailing a load of people to posts, having to be persuaded (twice!) not to burn down the Red Keep, not caring when her brother is executed before her, dragging someone behind her horse etc.

She's always had it in her to be cruel in her punishments.  And there has always been the waking the dragon etc.  It's been obvious to many for some time.  I even know Unsullied who spotted it long ago.

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1 minute ago, Nightwish said:

Sorry you don't understand your own contradiction here but never mind.

https://www.eonline.com/news/1036409/why-arya-stark-was-always-going-to-be-the-game-of-thrones-savior

"We hoped to kind of avoid the expected. Jon Snow has always been the hero, the one who's been the savior, but it just didn't seem right to us, for this moment," Benioff said." 

The point of their sayings is that they were rooting for the surprise not the built up. (Arya vs Jon) So if you had guessed it or foreseen it, I guess I am right they should have put little mermaid. 

And I do believe this is their logic and its really simple. Going all through that script and trying to find specific hints its hilarious and time wasted as everything applies for any character: from cruel actions to super powers. They just have put the cards down and pick anything they want because they can and because know that fans are far better in explaining the unexplainable than they are. 

They are so full of shit publicly since GRRM turned on them.  Now they say any old crap to ensure they don't let anything out of the bag that GRRM told them directly.

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I was excited because I had some hope at the start of the season. I was still believing the show was as good as it was before season 6. However after last episode I just want it over so I can move on. Unless they are making a sequel to game of thrones as one of the spinoffs and it doesn't have the same "writers" then the game of thrones on TV's is over for me. It will only exist in the books for me.

So I am not hyped I am just tired and want it over with. The idea that you are hyped for it to suck and will enjoy so many people being furious and depressed is not exactly something to brag about.

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4 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

They are so full of shit publicly since GRRM turned on them.  Now they say any old crap to ensure they don't let anything out of the bag that GRRM told them directly.

well the only truth now is the one stated and documented as they present it. Martin hasn't progressed anything and since his work is still in his head - nothing can be proven from his aspect. 

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1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

They are so full of shit publicly since GRRM turned on them.  Now they say any old crap to ensure they don't let anything out of the bag that GRRM told them directly.

When did GRRM turn on them. I mean I don't think he is happy about them but he is making ALOT of money off the show and I think he is gonna let it play out completly and when the last episode finishes airing he will say a toned down version of they screwed up my story and it isn't gonna be anything like that. Granted he might just do that so more people buy his next asoiaf book since I imagine alot of people are gonna be pissed about this and might not buy his books if they think it will end like that. I am not saying he hasn't said anything against them but I just haven't heard it.

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4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

well the only truth now is the one stated and documented as they present it. Martin hasn't progressed anything and since his work is still in his head - nothing can be proven from his aspect. 

I'm really hoping he starts writing the winds of winter soon. I understand writers block However he needs to focus on the winds of winter.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Granted he might just do that so more people buy his next asoiaf book since I imagine alot of people are gonna be pissed about this and might not buy his books if they think it will end like that. I am not saying he hasn't said anything against them but I just haven't heard it.

I am  certainly not buying them. It will take many readers, critics and reviews now to persuade me that they worth the time. 

Edited by Nightwish

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2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

I am  certainly not buying them. It will take many readers, critics and reviews now to persuade me that they worth the time. 

Then why come her? Why keep talking about it if you just hate it. I don't know it just seems there is enough in this world to get angry about so why come her to get madder if you don't like game of thrones anymore. I mean don't get me wrong I no longer like the show but I still love the books. And I will still watch the show because it's the last episode and I might as well finish it. However when its over and I come here to talk about the show for a day or two I won't come to this part of the forum anymore. I will just stay in the book part.

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8 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Then why come her? Why keep talking about it if you just hate it. I don't know it just seems there is enough in this world to get angry about so why come her to get madder if you don't like game of thrones anymore. I mean don't get me wrong I no longer like the show but I still love the books. And I will still watch the show because it's the last episode and I might as well finish it. However when its over and I come here to talk about the show for a day or two I won't come to this part of the forum anymore. I will just stay in the book part.

Oh I came here for the reactions and to see that I am not the only one here who finds the way the show has gone downhill.  

This is the end of the journey, your argument would stand if it had any life left. But its finishing and people should be able to tell their opinion either they like it or not as these are their final impressions of the show. You can't really judge something unless it is finished. 

And as for the books, reaching the end, I decided that I don't want to invest any more time as I find the end unfulfiling for my taste. I will let other people read it and if they are different and far more intelligent than what I am watching I will get them. If the ratings are low, no I won't. 

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