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Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

Anyone think Visenya killed Rhaenys?

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At least, had a major hand in her death. Rhaenys dies in Dorne when a scorpion bolt pierces Meraxes's eye. If the scorpions were so successful, why weren't the Dornish, and other others too for that matter, hell bent on making more scorpions to do the same? Nothing of the sort is hinted in the books. However, the dragons do wonder if the Yellow Toad got her hands on Lyseni poison to get the job done so effectively. 

It really shows how dragons are hard to kill by conventional methods. The other two dragons survive, and later, no other dragons die by similar bolts, even during the Dance. This takes me to the letter Aegon receives from Meria Martell's heir after her death. The letter makes Aegon so furious, his hands bleed when he reads it, yet he curiously never shares it with Visenya, given that she also lost a sibling. Aegon burns the letter and later agrees to the terms of peace. 

It got me thinking, what if it was Visenya who lets the Yellow Toad know how to poison and kill a dragon? Only Meraxes dies, very likely killing the rider as well. Some people have speculated that Rhaenys may have been alive in Dorne. But if this was true, Aegon, who loved Rhaenys truly, would never have stopped trying to see her. At this point there was a stalemate in the war. But if Aegon truly wanted, he could have assembled even a bigger army and paid for like Faceless Men to take down Dorne if Rhaenys was held hostage. He does none of these things.

More interesting things happen later. Aegon doesn't consult Visenya, makes peace with the Dornish, and afterwards pretty much retreats to Dragonstone. His relationship with Visenya is practically nonexistent afterwards. The trio is broken up. 

It brings me back to Visenya. Unlike Rhaenys, who was all life and passion, Visenya was rather cold and cruel. It's more obvious later during her son Maegor's reign. It's very possible that she was jealous of Rhaenys, as Aegon spent all his time with her. Rhaenys also gives birth first and her son eventually becomes heir. Visenya I think has trouble conceiving (but correct me if I'm wrong). Her jealously and cruelty could have lead her to tipping off the Dornish on how to kill Rhaenys and her dragon, without making Aegon suspect anything (at the time at least). And the Yellow Toad got a good deal too. Sunspear is spared, and her heir as well. Dorne also ends up with a juicy piece of blackmail that can finally get Aegon to give up his conquest of Dorne. 

There are some magical things here too. Rhaenys's son, Aenys I, is weak. It's possible that Visenya had some hand in this as well, either by poison or sorcery she was rumored for, so that Maegor can ascend. Like Visenya, Maegor is cruel, and utterly unsuited to rule. Maegor isn't able to conceive an heir, and eventually the all the Targs afterward descend from the Aegon/Rhaenys line, not from Visenya's directly. Though Aenys was not a good ruler, his son, Jeharys, eventually becomes the Targ that genuinely unites the realm and brings peace. 

Why doesn't Aegon do anything to Visenya because of this? In the lore, it's hinted that kinslaying among dragons is a grave crime. It's possibly what happened to Rhaenys  backfires on Visenya's line. And her actions also weakens the Targs. Later, when Dance commences, kinslaying destroys the dragons, and literally makes new dragons weaker. It's possible that some curse or magical stuff plays a role as well. Aegon is likely to be aware of this. Despite being the conqueror, Aegon is never needlessly cruel. He's probably unable and unwilling to get his revenge because of all the magical stuff that unofficially govern the Targ bloodline. It would be interesting to know how all this plays out with the overall story. 

Edited by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

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Hah, that's quite a possible theory, because if I'm correct Visenya was always the better fighter and the more fierce sister of the two and Rhaenys was the more gentle and beautiful sister so yes I think this could of happened. Also because her death is shrouded in mystery whether she fell of her dragon during the First Dornish War.

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You don't seem to take into account that Meraxes was killed during a battle at Hellholt. There had to be hundreds of witnesses who saw how the dragon fell from the sky. We are also told how in her agony she destroyed part of the castle's wall and its highest tower.

Short of suggesting that Visenya was a sorceress who could direct the course of bolts, I don't see how she could be accused of her sister's death.

On 5/17/2019 at 5:30 PM, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Rhaenys dies in Dorne when a scorpion bolt pierces Meraxes's eye. If the scorpions were so successful, why weren't the Dornish, and other others too for that matter, hell bent on making more scorpions to do the same? Nothing of the sort is hinted in the books.

False. This is a quote from Fire and Blood, describing the preparations of The Fourth Dornish War:

Morion had been weaned on the tales of past Dornish glory, and like many young Dornish lords he had seen the sun-mottled bones of the dragon Meraxes at the Hellholt. Every ship in his fleet was therefore manned with crossbowmen and equipped with massive scorpions of the sort that had felled Meraxes.

This was within living memory of Meraxe's death.

On 5/17/2019 at 5:30 PM, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

no other dragons die by similar bolts, even during the Dance.

Also false. In the Battle of the Gullet, Vermax is killed by another lucky shot, either from an arrow to the eye or a grapnel. Tessarion was also given a mercy kill by shooting arrows in the eye. So, it don't think that we have grounds to doubt that a dragon can be killed by bolt pierces in the eye.

Edited by The hairy bear

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On 4/17/2020 at 5:29 PM, The hairy bear said:

You don't seem to take into account that Meraxes was killed during a battle at Hellholt. There had to be hundreds of witnesses who saw how the dragon fell from the sky. We are also told how in her agony she destroyed part of the castle's wall and its highest tower.

Short of suggesting that Visenya was a sorceress who could direct the course of bolts, I don't see how she could be accused of her sister's death.

False. This is a quote from Fire and Blood, describing the preparations of The Fourth Dornish War:

Morion had been weaned on the tales of past Dornish glory, and like many young Dornish lords he had seen the sun-mottled bones of the dragon Meraxes at the Hellholt. Every ship in his fleet was therefore manned with crossbowmen and equipped with massive scorpions of the sort that had felled Meraxes.

This was within living memory of Meraxe's death.

Also false. In the Battle of the Gullet, Vermax is killed by another lucky shot, either from an arrow to the eye or a grapnel. Tessarion was also given a mercy kill by shooting arrows in the eye. So, it don't think that we have grounds to doubt that a dragon can be killed by bolt pierces in the eye.

Exactly, it's just exceedingly rare and a one in a million lucky shot. Vermax was flying very low and (I thought it was Vermithor not Tessarion that got mercy killed at Tumbleton) was grounded making it easy for the archers to pull of those shots.

But yeah it's established 3 times so far that the eye is the weak spot and can be pierced by arrows, scorpion bolts etc. And we do hear about others (the Dornish in particular) trying to pull it off again and failing. So while it's possible that Visenya had a hand in Aenys weakness (maybe fed Rhaenys a potion that was meant to abort but didn't work?) I doubt she had a hand in her death.

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This makes no sense at all because Visenya joined Aegon in devastating Dorne after Rhaenys's death over the Hellholt.

And when Princess Deria brought Meraxes skull to the negotiations, Visenya was in favor of killing her right there and continuing the war, along with her half-brother Orys and others of Aegon's court. If Visenya didn't love her sister, then why would she react so strongly in such a negative way to the sight of Meraxes's skull and the Dornish offer for peace.

Rhaenys's death had nothing to do with Visenya.

My headcanon is that Rhaenys was pregnant when she was shot down, survived the fall, got captured by the Dornish and died in childbirth. The Dornish were using that child as a hostage and Aegon couldn't tell Visenya because she would order a rescue mission and the Dornish would kill the child in response. Also explains why Aegon and Aenys went for the 10th anniversary visit to Dorne, the trip was so Aenys could meet his sister.

Also, it wasn't Lyseni poison, but a Lyseni scorpion. The Lyseni probably have such dragon killing weapons because they were able to kill the dragonriders and their dragons that survived the Doom in Lys, which meant they had some experience in killing dragons effectively. IMO the person who fired the shot that downed Rhaenys was probably a Lyseni sellsword, just like Bronn vs Drogon+Dany.

Aenys's weakness had nothing to with poison or Visenya. Baela and her twin sister Rhaena were both born small and sickly in Pentos, but they grew up fine, just like Aenys. Like I said, nothing to do with Visenya.

And Maegor wasn't himself after his Trial of 7. Tyanna used some messed up magic to resurrect him and I think it messed his mind up or something, because before his revival, he was perfectly normal, if a bit on the harsh side.

 

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On 9/11/2020 at 2:40 AM, BlackDragon98 said:

This makes no sense at all because Visenya joined Aegon in devastating Dorne after Rhaenys's death over the Hellholt.

And when Princess Deria brought Meraxes skull to the negotiations, Visenya was in favor of killing her right there and continuing the war, along with her half-brother Orys and others of Aegon's court. If Visenya didn't love her sister, then why would she react so strongly in such a negative way to the sight of Meraxes's skull and the Dornish offer for peace.

Rhaenys's death had nothing to do with Visenya.

My headcanon is that Rhaenys was pregnant when she was shot down, survived the fall, got captured by the Dornish and died in childbirth. The Dornish were using that child as a hostage and Aegon couldn't tell Visenya because she would order a rescue mission and the Dornish would kill the child in response. Also explains why Aegon and Aenys went for the 10th anniversary visit to Dorne, the trip was so Aenys could meet his sister.

Also, it wasn't Lyseni poison, but a Lyseni scorpion. The Lyseni probably have such dragon killing weapons because they were able to kill the dragonriders and their dragons that survived the Doom in Lys, which meant they had some experience in killing dragons effectively. IMO the person who fired the shot that downed Rhaenys was probably a Lyseni sellsword, just like Bronn vs Drogon+Dany.

Aenys's weakness had nothing to with poison or Visenya. Baela and her twin sister Rhaena were both born small and sickly in Pentos, but they grew up fine, just like Aenys. Like I said, nothing to do with Visenya.

And Maegor wasn't himself after his Trial of 7. Tyanna used some messed up magic to resurrect him and I think it messed his mind up or something, because before his revival, he was perfectly normal, if a bit on the harsh side.

 

I like everything you said here, excepting the last paragraph; decapitating your horse for kicking you well exceed general harshness.

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