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Cersei's #1 Fan

Unpopular Opinion: Support Daenerys

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As this point in the series I think the most prudent action would be to support Dany unifying of the Seven Kingdoms. Sure, many are upset at her actions but its done, we can't go back. We would only continue the cycle of vengence that plagues this world if we resort to ill-conceived notions of bringing Dany to justice. 

Jon or Arya killing Dany can only lead to further horrors and a completely destabilized Kingdom. The Unsullied and Dothraki are on her side and would surely not accept their treason and would fight back. Also I don't see the northern allies deserting her either. We can sit here and cast moral judgements on her and shout moral outrages at her actions but those men participated in this slaughter. Can they turn around and now denounce Dany as evil? Most would just be happy she ended the fighting in a way that helped win with less deaths on their side. Jon or Arya would only be viewed as the worst of traitors. Not to mention the inept Tyrion whose reluctance to act sooner and more brutally cost more lives on Dany's side that would have been necessary.

Many viewers supported Dany bringing vengence on Cersei. That she did and in the process things went a little awry. Oh well. She's now the best ruler the kingdoms has, as much as people might not like it. Jon has a heroic character but his political skills are highly suspect. He'd be lucky to live a month before someone outwits him politically and sends him to his death. Sansa is power hungry and manipulative. She furthered a divide between her and the Queen that need not have been there and betrayed a promise to her brother so she could undermine Dany. Many might overlook Sansa's flaws in their rush to find a successor to Dany but Sansa would have her own issues holding onto power and would likewise have to be ruthless to do so. Hopefully after this battle Dany's bloodlust will be quenched and she can return to a more benevolent Queen.

Either way I beseech you to put aside your notions of vengence and be practical. There is no fairy tale ending to this story so we must now accept the fate of Kings Landing and move on. Let us support the Queen now in her worst hour, let us not be fair weather fans but accept our Queen flaws and all.

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Posted (edited)

I have no problems supporting Dany.

The feeling I have is that the real reason for burning King's Landing was so whoever kills her in the next episode is justified in doing so. And just because of that I'm ready to say heck no. Stay away from the dragon queen. I forgive her.
Give her another season instead, let her attempt a redemption arc, and if that fails, then they can dispose of her. But killing her now, however justified, is distasteful.

Edited by Vanadis

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Posted (edited)

The show runners are going to hand wave this. 

Killing Dany should mean another civil war. Her Dothraki and unsullied would devastate Westeros in a rampage. The seven Kingdoms would fracture and you should have decades of war.

Instead they will probably have the Essos army politely leave after they murder Dany. Some grand council will be formed and they’ll elect a new King because that worked so well in Poland and the Holy Roman Empire.

Really George? Elective monarchy? Keep feudalism and aristocratic privilege but let’s replace hereditary rule with a corrupt oligarchy. Assuming one family doesn’t monopolise the position like the Habsburgs. It is so stupid if they go for this. Westeros needs the Magna Carta and parliament or it needs an absolutist monarch. Instead they are going for the worst political system ever devised.

I suspect they knew that Jon had to be validated in murdering Dany so wanted it to be as black and white as they could possibly make it. So they make Dany into a monster so people don’t feel angry at Jon walking off into the sunset with Ghost after sabotaging Danys storyline. 

Edited by Tyrion1991

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Posted (edited)

Ok, lets ignore the crimes that killing hundreds of innocent children at KL,

She said she is infertile right?, and probably it's true considering that she had sex with Daario many times before and never get pregnant,

So what will happen to the succession? If she can't produce another Targaryen, who people will follow after her death?

Somehow she miraculously gets pregnant from Jon in that short time when they had sex and produces a Targaryen heir?

Even if we ignore her crimes, it's still ambigious that what will happen if the final ends with her ruling only, it will be a huge chaos in the Seven Kingdoms after her death, producers or the writers can't ignore this fact.

Jon would be a better ruler instead of her almost in every way. Varys also pointed it out that succession is important.

Edited by Erkan12

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57 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

I have no problems supporting Dany.

The feeling I have is that the real reason for burning King's Landing was so whoever kills her in the next episode is justified in doing so. And just because of that I'm ready to say heck no. Stay away from the dragon queen. I forgive her.
Give her another season instead, let her attempt a redemption arc, and if that fails, then they can dispose of her. But killing her now, however justified, is distasteful.

That's where we definitely needed more episodes.  Dany ought to have been the chance to show if she's a competent ruler.

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2 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

Ok, lets ignore the crimes that killing hundreds of innocent children at KL,

She said she is infertile right?, and probably it's true considering that she had sex with Daario many times before and never get pregnant,

So what will happen to the succession?

England had Elizabeth I and it turned out just fine.

Just let Jon have some kids, then Dany can name them as her successors.

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1 minute ago, Vanadis said:

England had Elizabeth I and it turned out just fine.

Just let Jon have some kids, then Dany can name them as her successors.

I don't think that would work :D

Dany can't decide on the lives of other people's children in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

I don't think that would work :D

Dany can't decide on the lives of other people's children in the first place.

Monarchs do that all the time though? That's kind of the point of being King / Queen.

Anyway, tangent.

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Of course Dany can 

33 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

I don't think that would work :D

Dany can't decide on the lives of other people's children in the first place.

Of course Dany can name anyone to be her heir.
Especially her own nephew's children.
And of course that person can say "no thank you."

I think emperor Augustus was Julius Caesar's relative, but not his son, as an example.

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Just now, Vanadis said:

Of course Dany can 

Of course Dany can name anyone to be her heir.
Especially her own nephew's children.
And of course that person can say "no thank you."

I think emperor Augustus was Julius Caesar's relative, but not his son, as an example.

I mean not when Jon is still alive, Augustus's father was dead long before when Ceasar named him as his heir.

1- We don't know if Jon is going to marry or not

2- We don't know if Jon is going to let her name his children as her heir

It doesn't make sense for now to think something like that when Jon doesn't even have children yet.

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5 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

I mean not when Jon is still alive, Augustus's father was dead long before when Ceasar named him as his heir.

1- We don't know if Jon is going to marry or not

2- We don't know if Jon is going to let her name his children as her heir

It doesn't make sense for now to think something like that when Jon doesn't even have children yet.

Well, let's assume that in this alternative version of the ending, Jon does not marry Dany, nor does he press his claim. Instead Dany is ruling queen. 
Let's say that Jon goes north and that he even decides to be king in the North (nothing needs to make sense in the show anyway) so now he's Dany's direct opponent.
And let's say that Dany for some reason accepts that the North now is an independent nation, and that she has no say in what happens there.

Even so, she can name Jon's son Jonny as her successor if she so wishes, on the basis that Jonny is her closest relative except Jon, who didn't want to be king in Westeros.

Jonny would then become king of Westeros and the North (unless he decided not to) (and unless someone thinks Jonny is unfit and somehow actively works against him and succeeds).

Not only that, if Dany doesn't name an heir, or if she names an heir outside her family (Gilly will be queen should I die), the nobles of Westeros or some other power might still say "screw that" and insist that Jonny is the true heir because of his relationship with Dany.

There's many ways it could go, but Dany naming her nephew as heir would be reasonable and likely.
 

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Posted (edited)

Definitely support Dany, and can argue that the burning of KL was on the Lannisters and the Starks just as much. Either all the houses are irrevocably destroyed by their sins or Dany reforges the realms as she is the best of the bunch.

She is still the best chance for a unified Planetos. And we know her well enough that her vengeful fury is offset by her great capacity for love and compassion. She is not the ruler the people may want, but definitely the one they need right now. The alternative to her absolute order is absolute chaos, especially if it happens quickly.

Edited by Daemos

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4 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

Ok, lets ignore the crimes that killing hundreds of innocent children at KL,

Not innocent from Dany's perspective. Cersei, THEIR RULER, killed them all the minute she did not accept the terms of surrender. The terms are set before the battle starts, not after. The true Mad Queen is none other than Cersei.

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14 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Not innocent from Dany's perspective. Cersei, THEIR RULER, killed them all the minute she did not accept the terms of surrender. The terms are set before the battle starts, not after. The true Mad Queen is none other than Cersei.

She isn't their ruler, lmao. They are just citizens don't care about who is ruling the city or the politics of which house is on the charge.  They are not slaves who are waiting to escape or they don't have any right to choose of their own ruler, it's monarchy.

You expect these citizens to fight and risk their childrens life for a foreign woman who comes with an army of Dothraki, Unsullied and Dragons?  :D

They captured the city, they rang the bells and Lannisters gave up, yet she continued to burn the city and kill the innocent children, that's indeed something Aerys would do, and since she is the daughter of the mad king, that's not a surprise for us.

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12 hours ago, Cersei's #1 Fan said:

... Either way I beseech you to put aside your notions of vengence and be practical. There is no fairy tale ending to this story so we must now accept the fate of Kings Landing and move on. Let us support the Queen now in her worst hour, let us not be fair weather fans but accept our Queen flaws and all.

Totally agree. Gods, old and new, save the Queen!  By contemporary standards sacking the enemy's capital is justified. The troops expect it. They fought and suffered far from home, now it's pay day. Destroying the capital smashes the wheel, setting the stage for a new beginning. But the show runners seem intent on killing her, even if this creates a renewed struggle for the throne. Dany already has a recognized heir, Gendry. The Unsullied, Dothraki, and Baratheon partisans will rally to his cause. But who will fight for Jon, a traitor and reluctant pretender?

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As my posts atest i fully support Dany to rule over Westeros, and other than that the only satisfying 'happy' ending for me would be Sansa 'graduating' in a clever manner as the Queen of the seven kingdoms, which i find to be a very real possibility.

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6 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

You expect these citizens to fight and risk their childrens life for a foreign woman who comes with an army of Dothraki, Unsullied and Dragons?  :D

 It was between Fire or Cersei. They chose Cersei. I expect them to do it for themselves and no one else.

Or I expect them to die.

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1 minute ago, Daemos said:

 It was between Fire or Cersei. They chose Cersei. I expect them to do it for themselves and no one else.

Or I expect them to die.

They chose no one, they didn't resist or fight alongside with Cersei, they were just hiding and doing nothing, they even said later ring the bells.

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2 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

They chose no one

That wasn't an option once the battle started. War is a terrible thing, and this was The Last War according to Dany. Let Planetos remember the horror so that it will never happen again. And it won't so long as Dany is alive.

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