Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jace, Basilissa

U.S. Politics: You Didn't Think It Would Be So Easy, Did You?

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Let's be real here. Like, what was actually different? Some of the haircuts? I'll admit watching Marco get little'd was fun, but what really came out of it.

I don't know why you're speaking in the past tense.  Activism takes a long time to gain influence.  Even for industries funded by companies that make millions of dollars (the one's that make billions, yeah, it's pretty easy).  I think this may be one of my problems with this thread/board in general.  There's such a focus on the immediate.  Politics -- and governing -- is a process.  An annoyingly slow process.  The Parkland kids have built themselves a little nest egg of potential influence.  It can and almost certainly will grow, but of course it's going to take time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Being so reliant on tips ultimately leaves workers more vulnerable to harassment and other type of labor violations. “I remember working in restaurants, and, you know, you would have someone say something extremely inappropriate to you, or you’d have someone touch you, and the thing is it would be the 28th of the month, the 29th of the month. And the first of the next month was rolling right around and you have a rent check to pay,” she said. “And so you are more likely to stand up for yourself and to reject sexual harassment on the 15th of the month, or maybe the 10th of the month, when you could pick up an extra shift to make up for telling that guy to go buzz off.”

Ocasio-Cortez: Federal Tipped Minimum Wage of $2.13 is “Indentured Servitude”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/ocasio-cortez-bartending-federal-tipped-minimum-wage.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Ocasio-Cortez: Federal Tipped Minimum Wage of $2.13 is “Indentured Servitude”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/ocasio-cortez-bartending-federal-tipped-minimum-wage.html

Meh, I've probably met and grown close to as many bartenders over the past 15 years as anybody.  They do alright, even at the dives.  Gotta be very hardworking though - the issue should be providing them benefits and regulated protections, not their wages.  Just got back today from a bartender that's three weeks out from her due date.  They give her 6 weeks "off," but without pay.  Had to explain why that wasn't what maternity leave means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't know why you're speaking in the past tense.  Activism takes a long time to gain influence.  Even for industries funded by companies that make millions of dollars (the one's that make billions, yeah, it's pretty easy).  I think this may be one of my problems with this thread/board in general.  There's such a focus on the immediate.  Politics -- and governing -- is a process.  An annoyingly slow process.  The Parkland kids have built themselves a little nest egg of potential influence.  It can and almost certainly will grow, but of course it's going to take time.

Hmmm, I suppose there's wisdom to what you say. Except that people have been begging for gun reform since I was in High School. I guess after a while I've decided to take multiple decades' worth of evidence that these incidents don't matter and the fact that Florida went even further red in a Dem wave year as a certain sort of historical proof in my favor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Except that people have been begging for gun reform since I was in High School. I guess after a while I've decided to take multiple decades' worth of evidence that these incidents don't matter and the fact that Florida went even further red in a Dem wave year as a certain sort of historical proof in my favor.

People have been begging for a lot of things since before we were born.  Hate to do it because it's so stereotypical, but gonna quote Weber:  "Politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards."  One election cycle is not the fate of a purple state like Florida.  Why do we fall Bruce?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DMC said:

People have been begging for a lot of things since before we were born.  Hate to do it because it's so stereotypical, but gonna quote Weber:  "Politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards."  One election cycle is not the fate of a purple state like Florida.  Why do we fall Bruce?

Because when they go low we keep jumping in the air and presenting our dicks in optimal punching position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Because when they go low we keep jumping in the air and presenting our dicks in optimal punching position.

I was expecting something different than punching position.  Anyway, this isn't a "they go low, we go high" thing.  The GOP organizes and lobbies in a superior fashion to Dems, generally.  The Parkland students are organizing and lobbying.  That's a good a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, DMC said:

I was expecting something different than punching position.  Anyway, this isn't a "they go low, we go high" thing.  The GOP organizes and lobbies in a superior fashion to Dems, generally.  The Parkland students are organizing and lobbying.  That's a good a thing.

Yep, my guess is gun control is going to go the way that gay marriage did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, DMC said:

I was expecting something different than punching position.  Anyway, this isn't a "they go low, we go high" thing.  The GOP organizes and lobbies in a superior fashion to Dems, generally.  The Parkland students are organizing and lobbying.  That's a good a thing.

Yeah it's good. I don't know why there's some myth that they actually changed anything. Opponents of gun control in Florida were greatly rewarded in response to the Parkland kids' efforts.

That is a defeat. A potential hypothetical mythical nonexistent possibility of future change does not credit them with having achieved anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

That is a defeat. A potential hypothetical mythical nonexistent possibility of future change does not credit them with having achieved anything.

You don't know that.  This is just you being cynical because it's cool to be cynical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, DMC said:

You don't know that.  This is just you being cynical because it's cool to be cynical.

Hey! HEY! 

Don't go telling on my secrets. Ain't nobody as cold as Jace. 

Jace is so cold. So cold, people! That's what they say! People ARE SAYing............ That she's cold... Jace the Ice Queen, that's what I call her. So cold, folks...

But that's what they want and they want it! They keep asking her but she complains "why don't you ask men about it?" I mean! Right? Maybe! We'll see. See what they ask me, ok, you think it's hard. It's hard to me ME. Right folks? It's so hard, so hard for me. But that's what it is and why we do it.

E

lect

a

ble

That's what they're looking for, it's what they need, they think they need it. They say, they all say it, that WE HAVE to beat him. It's all they think about folks, all they can talk about. Who has a chance, let me TELL you something here. Real PEOple here, in this audience, I can see them. I see you. This is what they're saying. They can't beat him.

They can't but the crooked democrats, they're all unELectbl.

They all are, folks! Because they're so focused on me, they wanna make it all about me. That's what they do. 

But I.

I make it about the economy! So good, so great. I've been great for the economy. Why don't they ever talk about that? They talk about jobs! JOBS! And polls, but the FAKE NEWS media, don't wanna. They never want to, they neVER with the economy. Because it's great and they know, they know I've made it great but instead they want to not talk about the Mueller Report.

FULL EXONERATION 

NO ONSTRUCTION

Crooked Dems with their coup. That's what it is folks, I don't know. Treason, I don't know. Maybe it's treason. Is a witch hunt treason? But they go for the coup. Coup. Coup. Coup. 

And it has, it has there the FULL no OBStruction..and I don't know why he has to testify, it's there. FULL EXONERATION. And he doesn't want to speak and he shouldn't have to. He shouldn't have to! I've been the MOST transparent. The MOST transparent, and they're always with the FAKE NEWS headlines...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DMC said:

  Why do we fall Bruce?

Had to look that one up. Amazing what a pop culture icon Batman has become. (I do agree with the sentiment, though.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, DMC said:

Meh, I've probably met and grown close to as many bartenders over the past 15 years as anybody.  They do alright, even at the dives.  Gotta be very hardworking though - the issue should be providing them benefits and regulated protections, not their wages.  Just got back today from a bartender that's three weeks out from her due date.  They give her 6 weeks "off," but without pay.  Had to explain why that wasn't what maternity leave means.

Why are you carrying water for capital. Fuck their indentured servitude wages, just because it’s worked anecdotally in a few instances you’re aware of does not extrapolate that out to the entire system. It’s a justice issue and a gender issue and a race issue and allowing this injustice to perpetuate is morally wrong.

and from an organizing point of view, split roll wages gives the enemy enormous leverage against us. We need to take away that leverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Why are you carrying water for capital. Fuck their indentured servitude wages, just because it’s worked anecdotally in a few instances you’re aware of does not extrapolate that out to the entire system. It’s a justice issue and a gender issue and a race issue and allowing this injustice to perpetuate is morally wrong.

I'm in agreement with you on this one and was surprised by DMC's comment. Living off of tips is wholly undignified ("smile more, try putting on a little makeup, be grateful for $1 notes covered in mustard") and altogether immoral. And if this friend of DMC'S was paid actual maternity leave im sure that 2 bucks an hour (Not even $20 a day) would go a long way. 

Hell, if she would stop being so stuck up and get with a man she could live off of $16 a day pretty easily.

The fact that there exist people who are happy to be abused does not make it ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Why are you carrying water for capital. Fuck their indentured servitude wages, just because it’s worked anecdotally in a few instances you’re aware of does not extrapolate that out to the entire system. It’s a justice issue and a gender issue and a race issue and allowing this injustice to perpetuate is morally wrong.

Because anyone who has worked in a tip situation KNOWS better. So, maybe AOC reasons?   Not so much carrying water for capitalism -- though, ya that too, inevitably because the old white male Dem ruling class is terrified of such people, who are threatening their shove down our throats Biden for POTUS -- like they shoved Hillary down our throats.  (She'd proven over and over, that despite ovaries, she was one of Them.)

So we get shyte like this from Them which They dismiss as "unintended consequence."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/02/us/politics/dccc-blacklist-incumbent-policy.html?

Quote

WASHINGTON — A move by House Democratic leaders to thwart party members from mounting primary challenges to incumbents, even in safe Democratic districts, could have the unintended consequence of arresting the party’s shift toward a more female and racially diverse caucus, one of its most striking achievements of the last election.

"Unintended consequence?" O, come on!  What else is it about, this protection of old white, almost all male, incumbents that their voters don't want in any longer? Including the white women who call themselves Dems but are anti-reproductive rights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'm in agreement with you on this one and was surprised by DMC's comment. Living off of tips is wholly undignified ("smile more, try putting on a little makeup, be grateful for $1 notes covered in mustard") and altogether immoral. And if this friend of DMC'S was paid actual maternity leave im sure that 2 bucks an hour (Not even $20 a day) would go a long way. 

Hell, if she would stop being so stuck up and get with a man she could live off of $16 a day pretty easily.

The fact that there exist people who are happy to be abused does not make it ok.

I agree that living off tips is wholly undignified. I just don't think we are going to get rid of it any time soon in those industries where it already exists. Washington state though has implemented a minumum wage plus tips system. That does not get rid of tipping, but it does help a shit-load of people, and it makes the tips matter a bit less.

I think what @DMC is saying though is bartenders are somewhat better off financially than Walmart and Mcdonald's serfs, but have to work harder to maintain that. And also that bartenders need things like access to healthcare or maternity leave more than increased wages. 

I like increased-wage policies in general though for a couple reasons. (Like minimum wage and UBI) One, working-class Americans often face broken systems. Like the lack of maternity leave that was brought up. Childcare is another one. And two, wages and money are very versatile. Different people have different problems. And it is pretty common for working-class people to face emergencies they did not see coming.

And people have to find a way to survive while these systems are broken. Sometimes the systems never get fixed, or sometimes they even get broken more like happened to TANF. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

I think what @DMC is saying though is bartenders are somewhat better off financially than Walmart and Mcdonald's serfs, but have to work harder to maintain that. And also that bartenders need things like access to healthcare or maternity leave more than increased wages.

Thank you for understanding my point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

I agree that living off tips is wholly undignified. I just don't think we are going to get rid of it any time soon in those industries where it already exists. Washington state though has implemented a minumum wage plus tips system. That does not get rid of tipping, but it does help a shit-load of people, and it makes the tips matter a bit less.

I think what @DMC is saying though is bartenders are somewhat better off financially than Walmart and Mcdonald's serfs, but have to work harder to maintain that. And also that bartenders need things like access to healthcare or maternity leave more than increased wages. 

I like increased-wage policies in general though for a couple reasons. (Like minimum wage and UBI) One, working-class Americans often face broken systems. Like the lack of maternity leave that was brought up. Childcare is another one. And two, wages and money are very versatile. Different people have different problems. And it is pretty common for working-class people to face emergencies they did not see coming.

And people have to find a way to survive while these systems are broken. Sometimes the systems never get fixed, or sometimes they even get broken more like happened to TANF. 

 

 

have to disagree.  I spent a decade plus delivering pizza in my younger days.  Pay was minimum wage (full) + delivery fee + tips.  Only time my base pay ever went up was when the minimum wage increased.  Good weekend, I could clear $300 cash (this was twenty years ago.)

On that income, I bought land, built a house on it (mostly out of pocket, apart from a $9000 construction loan) and paid it all the way off over a six year period.  Did most of the work myself, probably about $25K all told. Then, right before corporate screwed everything over, I built the garage, same way.  This probably would not have been possible with a straight hourly pay setup.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, DMC said:

Thank you for understanding my point.

I understood but it is also putting the rich kid cart before the poor kid horse. Benefits Such as you describe are indexed to per hour wages. Doing the benefits first is precisely and exactly backward and would create an even stronger financial incentive for capital to fight even harder against the wages side of the equation.

also, snidely doing (in your mind) what “is best” for people because they don’t really “need more money” as was so horrifically stated above is some republican level bullshit rhetoric.

also, if it were true it would mean universal basic income is a crock of shit. Hmmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...