[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

[SeanF]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But that's how David and Dan roll. Nothing that happened to ANY of the characters in series 8 was earned. I supoose character development is for suckers, much like themes are for 8th grade book reports. With Dany it became much more obvious and jarring because she has been portrayed as an empathetic saviour up until that moment and because of the consequences. Now they're going to retroactively try to justify everything - if they ever come out of hiding - but it's bollocks. She was seen as a saviour because they have always shown her darker actions as justified, those on the receivend end of her "dracarys!" were always bad guys, despicable slavers, savage rapers, and so on. That and GIRL POWER YAY WOMEN ON TOP. Hacks.

There used to be a really dreadful fanfic (now removed) in which Daenerys was commandant of a womens' concentration camp, Jon Snow was her SS officer boyfriend, and Sansa and Arya were their sex slaves.  I wonder if D & D read it and got ideas.

[Ygrain]

some more memes

[Moondancer]

11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

She had to be turned into a brutal SS commander.

I agree.

I hated mise-en-scène choices. I would venture to say they got what they wanted - the audience swiftly and adamantly judged against her. It's a distasteful, chilling thing. And I suppose creators riffing on Leni's work isn't that surprising. What should be worrying is how we reacted to it.

[Dragons Are Real]

7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

There used to be a really dreadful fanfic (now removed) in which Daenerys was commandant of a womens' concentration camp, Jon Snow was her SS officer boyfriend, and Sansa and Arya were their sex slaves.  I wonder if D & D read it and got ideas.

They probably wrote it.

[MinscS2]

In the end, Emilia Clarke's reaction to Daenerys sudden left turn into a SS-commander of pure evil says it all. 

She didn't know, and she certainly didn't see it coming.
Since she didn't know, she portrayed Daenerys exactly the way that the show intended to portray her for at least 67 of 73 episodes, which is also the way we where supposed to view her: As a flawed heroine.

All this talk of the "signs where always there/she was always a killer, she just happened to be killing evil men" (be it from Kit the actor or Tyrion the character) and the pure idiocy of trying to tell the audience that "Daenerys was starting to turn evil all the way back when she *let* Viserys die" is a fabrication and a retcon of her entire arc. 

It's nothing more than a completely moronic way for D&D to justify their own shitty writing.

 

[SeanF]

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

In the end, Emilia Clarke's reaction to Daenerys sudden left turn into a SS-commander of pure evil says it all. 

She didn't know, and she certainly didn't see it coming.
Since she didn't know, she portrayed Daenerys exactly the way that the show intended to portray her for at least 67 of 73 episodes, which is also the way we where supposed to view her: As a flawed heroine.

All this talk of the "signs where always there/she was always a killer, she just happened to be killing evil men" (be it from Kit the actor or Tyrion the character) and the pure idiocy of trying to tell the audience that "Daenerys was starting to turn evil all the way back when she *let* Viserys die" is a fabrication and a retcon of her entire arc. 

It's nothing more than a completely moronic way for D&D to justify their own shitty writing.

 

I'd say even 70 out of 73 episodes.  She was becoming paranoid and suspicious during the first three episodes, but then she had reason to be.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Low Sparrow said:

Does it matter that Brienne fabricated Jamie's story? No Brienne's entries in the White Book are gonna be al blurred and illegible anyway, as apparently she's too dumb to realize you need to let the ink dry before you flip the page and write on the back. :-)

Lol, yes. And then she immediately closed it. thunk. Wasn't there a scene in season 3 when Tywin is writing letters and he's taking the time to dry the ink, all while making worthwile conversation with Tyrion or maybe Cersei. ahh, the good old days

[RhaenysBee]

And I haven’t even said a thing about continuity. 

So there’s this injured man in shock walking the streets and Jon, Davos and Tyrion just walk by and stare in horror instead of taking the injured man’s hand and put him in the care of whoever is in charge of injured? 

And they confront GreyWorm about killing the Lannister prisoners but after two minutes of debate they just give up and let GreyWorm kill the prisoners? Why wouldn’t Jon insist to take the matter to Daenerys immediately?

And Jaime and Cersei were crushed to death beneath a pile of bricks and they were buried face up, because they didn’t instinctively hunch over to protect their heads, yet somehow their faces were still perfectly intact, their skulls and faces weren’t bashed in by the force of the falling bricks? Really? 

Then Daenerys made a conqueror speech in foreign languages, which always works because Emilia Clarke is just good at those Valyrian and Dothraki speeches and we see that she really is not okay in the head. Then she arrests Tyrion, which we are supposed to feel upset about, even though it is a very much justified action as Tyrion did act against her and go behind her back and give her shitty advice. 

And then.... goodness gracious, then Jon visits Tyrion in his confinement, and the dialogue. At this point I didn’t even mind that there’s barely any dialogue because even no dialogue is better than when there is dialogue. Tyrion first goes on about how bad he is been. Yes he indeed he has been a very shitty person, but the show and director doesn’t want us to acknowledge this, so Peter Dinklage delivers his best upset puppy dog face to make us think that Tyrion is actually the best person the world has ever seen. And there’s this weird line that Jon loved daenerys more successfully, we don’t know what the fuck that even means, wss Tyrion into Daenerys too? And then it gets even worse because Tyrion calls the fucking Queen who just burned a city Dany. Yes he fucking calls her Dany. Why the fuck would you do that, why? Does no character live inside this story anymore? Are we all trapped inside a Buzzfeed fan article? Then it doesn’t get better because Tyrion somehow fucking assumes that Jon didn’t come up with what he said. Like Hey Tyrion, apples are healthy. Hey Martha, did you just come up with that? No, my grandma told me. Oh my fucking god, Jon didn’t recite a poem, whatever gives you the goddamn impression that he didn’t just come up with what he said? Why couldn’t Jon simply add “maester Aemon told me” why would you put this dumbass line in Tyrion’s mouth? 

Anyway, Jon leaves conflicted and upset after Tyrion asks him to kill Daenerys, implying he won’t do the deed. He then seeks out Daenerys and after another ludicrous piece of dialogue about the contrived parallel of their childhoods, Jon stabs Daenerys. And as the uninspiring, unfavorite, unbadass, weak female character she is, Daenerys dies. Doesn’t she know that she should just jump up and run to find a magical Dothraki healer before she can duel Jon two days later? Silly woman. Then Drogon gets mad and doesn’t burn Jon for some reason, and no he didn’t know it was the iron throne that corrupted Daenerys, because according to the narrative I have seen, the iron throne didn’t corrupt Daenerys. Losing her loved ones and believing that she was chosen to save the world did. Not having the iron throne didn’t induce her unstable mind, and having it didn’t seem to affect her. The iron throne is thus melted erased from the world in 30 seconds, Drogon flies away with Daenerys and Jon... 

well we never find out what the hell happened to him. For some reason GreyWorm doesn’t kill him, for some reason GreyWorm even agrees to sentence him to the wall (we have no clue why GreyWorm thinks this is punishment and even the narrative can’t decide if it’s punishment or not). Sansa and Arya who negotiated this whole business seem to think it is and it’s beyond everybody’s comprehension why they follow through with this punishment after GreyWorm and the Dothraki sail away. They could simply see Jon back to winterfell. But I suppose this is what happens when Sansa Stark negotiates for one of her siblings, is that right, Rickon? 

Meanwhile Tyrion negotiates for himself. This goes to the length that Tyrion, a prisoner, in the presence of his captor, tells some random lords to elect Bran King. They do so without arguing. We have no idea why this happens or why GreyWorm even allows Tyrion to lead this discussion. Bran then says he’s been here for this all along. If this is true, Bran is a psychopath who shouldn’t be let anywhere near power, because he spent two years playing a catatonic cripple and refusing to help his allies and save thousands of human lives with the information he had. If it is not true, the statement makes no sense and contradicts Bran’s statement about not wanting the throne. Either way, we don’t understand why this is all happening so fast, so easily or at all. 

We crown Sansa queen of the north, and even though she brings up the question of Bran’s success, we never get any information about how she plans to take care of her succession. I suppose we are to assume that the north will elect their monarchs in the future as well. 

Arya sails west of Westeros, and just like in tyrion’s case, everybody, including Maisie Williams, Dan, Dave, Ramin Djawadi work very hard to make us forget that Arya is in fact a sociopathic killer. The irony of this reaches its peak when she tells Jon she knows a killer when she sees one. Right, like in the mirror, you mean? 

After quitting the Night’s Watch, quitting his studies at the Citadel, Sam Tarly fulfills his life dreams and becomes a wizard. He then enchants himself into a grand maester in the span of what seems to be two weeks. This is less time than it takes to brew a Polyjuice Potion, so we are talking about some strong magic here. We have no information on Gilly and their children or the Citadel’s stand on a Grand maester with a family. 

Brienne meanwhile came to terms with being dumbed by the (second) love of her life after a six night stand, and writes nice things about him into that book from earlier seasons. Podrick was also knighted, Bronn is a finance minister - we must assume that Sam enchanted him some reading, writing and calculus skills, as Bronn, a common sellsword would normally be illiterate (this was an issue even for Ser Davos) and the same must have happened to Lord Gendry of Storm’s End Who wasn't immediately deprived of the title an unstable despot bestowed on him after her death. And Ser Davos is still the designated grammar nazi, and we get ourselves a full 15 minutes of small council parody to (unintentionally - I hope) disgrace the early seasons that still had what we used to call a political plot. Bran doesn’t seem to take part in leading the realm, he rolls in to say hi, asks a nonsensical question about Drogon, implies that he might find him for no reason and without any follow up, his eyes don’t roll back and turn blue and we cut away without any hope that something might come out of this finale. 

Jon arrived at the Wall and reunited with Ghost, which was one of the two scenes that gave me happiness. Then he led the wildlings north of the wall. To... In order to... for the purpose of... no, I have no clue. He just lead them north. We don’t know why he is a leader again. We don’t know if he is allowed to do that being in the NW again. We don’t even know if there’s still an NW. Tyrion says there will always be need for people to guard the realms of men, but then, against what? The white walkers are gone and the wildlings are no longer considered an enemy. I suppose we’ll see a spinoff about those snarks and grumkins. 

Absolutely no effort was made to ties together the major plotpoints that happened on this episode, nothing made any sense and the dialogue was something straight out of a parody of the actual game of thrones finale. The episode was terribly structured and terribly toned, character storylines were turned into meme materials for the self serving reason of getting certain visuals the writers wanted us to see. No prior majorly important plotlines were completed, they were simply severed and forgotten about. 

I hope I made it profoundly clear that I have no complaints about any of the actual plotpoints and all my rants and raves are target at the way they were written and presented. 

 

 

 

[SeanF]

Now 4.4 on IMDB.

[MinscS2]

9 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Now 4.4 on IMDB.

Too high.

[steenkash]

What pissed me off the most was the absolute betrayal by Sam. Jon, carried him for years, and risked his life multiple times to protect him - and in return, we are expected to believe he shows no loyalty towards Jon by not speaking up at the hearing? Instead, Dumb and Dumber have him sitting his fat ass comfortably on the council as the grand master of  Kings Landing. 

[Ghosteline]

I absolutely hate how Jons character was rendered so dumb and useless. Would've been great to see he suddenly owning up to his real name Aegon, growing a spine and making bold decisions.

[steenkash]

3 minutes ago, Ghosteline said:

I absolutely hate how Jons character was rendered so dumb and useless. Would've been great to see he suddenly owning up to his real name Aegon, growing a spine and making bold decisions.

If not Jon, Sam could have stood up for Jon, but instead, he tries to present the silly idea of democracy to noblemen. Without Jon, Sam's fat ass would have been torn apart by season 2. 

[Ghosteline]

1 minute ago, steenkash said:

If not Jon, Sam could have stood up for Jon, but instead, he tries to present the silly idea of democracy to noblemen. Without Jon, Sam's fat ass would have been torn apart by season 2. 

 

Yes, for Sam, Davos, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Bran - for all of them it was ridiculously out of character and illogical for at least one of them to  mention Jon and mention Aegon and his true heritage to the throne. I couldn't believe it.

During the Tyrion/Jon conversation I was expecting Tyrion to call him Aegon any minute. I kind of feel like Jon never accepted his true heritage but if more people would have had then....

Just didn't make any sense at all.

[steenkash]

Can someone tell me how Bran had a better story than the man who united the North, parlayed with Danerys, came back from the dead after being betrayed, avenged the red wedding and was the catalyst in defeating the Night King and his army of the dead? Hell, even Robyn had a more entertaining story than Bran.  

[Ygrain]

11 minutes ago, steenkash said:

What pissed me off the most was the absolute betrayal by Sam. Jon, carried him for years, and risked his life multiple times to protect him - and in return, we are expected to believe he shows no loyalty towards Jon by not speaking up at the hearing? Instead, Dumb and Dumber have him sitting his fat ass comfortably on the council as the grand master of  Kings Landing. 

Especially when Sam was the one who boldly orchestrated Jon's election as Lord Commander. But, nah, why bother to do a thing about the guy who has proven himself both a capable commander, a people's person, not corrupt by power and the rightful heir on top of that.

- Now, I don't need Jon to sit a new IT to be happy, it just doesn't make any sense to me why this was never ever brought up.

[Prince of the North]

1 hour ago, lakin1013 said:

How this Sansa demand for Northern independence was allowed into the scene is beyond me. BEYOND ME. Anybody watching a rehearsal would point out that if one country was going to get independence, then they would ALL want it.  They left it in because if the director doesn't notice the water bottles, why would he/she notice the obvious. 

Yeah, it was complete fan-service.  Sansa gets her happy ending

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And did it strike anybody else that each representative seemed to get one vote at the council but the Starks got 3 votes.  And why was that?

Not to mention...several of those voting actually didn't have nearly the status to even get a vote (they even made a joke about it with good ol' Davos mumblin' "Don't know if I get a vote but..."  HAR!)  They were literally only included in that farce of a scene because they're "known" characters

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Too stoopid.

You said it!

[Dragons Are Real]

The whole Jon not even being mentioned at the meeting as a possibility really was irksome.  So we spent all this time building a story where he was the rightful Targ heir, and then in the end-run, everybody that was ever loyal to him, even those that had expelled great effort to bring him this information, basically went, "meh, it was Bran in the closet with a candlestick all along!"  WHAT?

I really feel like that last episode was just D&D wiping their hands of the characters they were sick of and destroying what was left of the world of Westeros.

[steenkash]

1 minute ago, Ygrain said:

Especially when Sam was the one who boldly orchestrated Jon's election as Lord Commander. But, nah, why bother to do a thing about the guy who has proven himself both a capable commander, a people's person, not corrupt by power and the rightful heir on top of that.

- Now, I don't need Jon to sit a new IT to be happy, it just doesn't make any sense to me why this was never ever brought up.

Exactly. It's as if the writers were too busy planning for star wars, they immediately forgot about Game of Thrones. When they were deciding Jon's fate, it makes no sense for nobody to bring it up, WTF. 

[Prince of the North]

10 minutes ago, steenkash said:

If not Jon, Sam could have stood up for Jon, but instead, he tries to present the silly idea of democracy to noblemen. Without Jon, Sam's fat ass would have been torn apart by season 2. 

Hmm...I get where you're coming from and I agree - Sam and Jon both owe each other a great deal and are friends.  But I'm not sure Sam would have been torn apart by season 2...because he seems to exude a permanent "Invisibility to Undead" spell