darmody Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 5/19/2019 at 10:04 PM, LHakaLH said: Tyrion wants Jon to kill Dany because Dany kills people, and killing is bad. Tyrion wants Jon to kill Dany for the good of humanity because Dany kills people for the good of humanity. Tyrion is sure that killing Dany will create a better world order because Dany is sure that killing people will create a better world order. Dany’s problem is that she never questions that her own actions are in everyone’s best interest, so she needs to be killed for what Tyrion never questions is everyone’s best interest. Hmmm... To be fair, this is pretty simple. Dany just killed like a million people for no reason. She's talking like she might do it again, perhaps to people they love. But the show can't have Tyrion lay it out like that because it has to be more dramatic-y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darmody Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 5/19/2019 at 10:06 PM, SeanF said: If Jon was going to kill Dany, it would have made more sense for him to know that he was sacrificing his own life in the process. Even Caligula's assassins were put to death by the Praetorian Guard. Unless a coup comes from within the army, they're going to react very badly to their commander in chief being murdered. Didn't Calgula surround himself with Germans or something so they wouldn't have any loyalty to anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hedge Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 3 hours ago, JMCH said: The thing stopping Jon from being king of Westeros was Jon not wanting to be king of Westeros. I wish this is how it had been clearly shown on the show. Jon not being able to live with the dishonour of what he has gone, elects to re-found the NW (my vows were for life - maybe in the books he is not really resurrected, so rings more true), or to seek solace in the far north. Not railroaded by Snarky Sandra, automaton, ex-friend and holy trinity "Lord Tarly, Grandmaester, and Saruman the White, but no longer NW if you are sending guys back up there, but I'll wear black coz its cool" Samwell and GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hedge Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, SeanF said: It's from TV tropes "For the evulz" meaning a character doing, evil things just to be evil, usually while twirling their moustache. LOL. Of course. indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, darmody said: Didn't Calgula surround himself with Germans or something so they wouldn't have any loyalty to anyone else? That is true. My point was that the loyal bodyguards of even complete monsters will usually avenge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/hbo-boss-on-game-of-thrones-finale-backlash-coffee-cup-gate-prequels-status-and-why-spinoffs-arent-in-the-cards/ar-AABIyC8 Is this guy serious? Really, people should read this stupid interview! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 I see that on this site, we give almost exactly the same rating as they do IMDB. I think a consensus is emerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, SeanF said: I see that on this site, we give almost exactly the same rating as they do IMDB. I think a consensus is emerging. And in imdb this season a shit ranking for a series... And the guys at HBO are happy and praising D&D! I don t understand… People didn t just hate the final... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hedge Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, divica said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/hbo-boss-on-game-of-thrones-finale-backlash-coffee-cup-gate-prequels-status-and-why-spinoffs-arent-in-the-cards/ar-AABIyC8 Is this guy serious? Really, people should read this stupid interview! My preference would be for none of the prequels to be made. Let the myths stay myths. As for more recent history: The account of the Dance is fascinating partially because the sources don't agree "But Mushroom's testimony, which is dismissed by most ...", why remove the ambiguity... Let's finish the books first: ASOIAF with all the loose ends, Dunk and Egg, and FaB2, I think that's plenty. It's tempting to have Dunk and Egg on TV, but since that's a much simpler story, there is the danger it gets "Hobbit"ified to make it another GOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, divica said: And in imdb this season a shit ranking for a series... And the guys at HBO are happy and praising D&D! I don t understand… People didn t just hate the final... And, I imagine that people rating the series at 4.5 are rating it 8-10 for acting, camera-work, beautiful set pieces, and 0-2 for plotting and characterisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darmody Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said: I wish this is how it had been clearly shown on the show. Jon not being able to live with the dishonour of what he has gone, elects to re-found the NW (my vows were for life - maybe in the books he is not really resurrected, so rings more true), or to seek solace in the far north. Not railroaded by Snarky Sandra, automaton, ex-friend and holy trinity "Lord Tarly, Grandmaester, and Saruman the White, but no longer NW if you are sending guys back up there, but I'll wear black coz its cool" Samwell and GW. Sandra, Queen in the North. "Hey, didn't we just have a King in the North?" "Yeah, now we got a queen." "What happened to 'im? He dead?" "Naw, not since last time he died." "Well, where is he?" "Up North." "Then why ain't he still king?" "Not this North. The North-North. Where they's guarding the Wall still." "What, he playin around with some Wildling girl?...Ah, them highborn." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, SeanF said: All the great tragedies have you sympathising with the villain protagonist, even as you recognise that they have to die, or that if they win, their victory will be completely hollow. Exactly. I think that Dany's turn would have been fantastic if they actually showed us that hollow victory - people who do not love her like the freed slaves did, the cultural shock of the different hygienic standards than what she had been used to from Essos.... the reality crash + the losses + feeling alienated could have been built really easily. And Jon could have been there for her at least to listen and hold her hand as a friend if not as a lover, there was so much that the dynamics between the two never even touched... I think they should have let KL stand a little longer and let Dany destroy only the Red Keep, that would have caused enough damage and loss of life to make people rather unhappy with her. Then there would have been growing tension and Dany acting increasingly paranoid and distraught, until she would snap at a display of hostility and burn innocents for the crime of not liking her. And you needn't go any further for a villain to sympathise with than the source material. Cersei is a horrible human being but she is also a mother whose son died in her arms and who doesn't have a single friend, which makes her such an easy target for Taena's manipulation. The walk of shame as a moment of her breakdown was a true masterpiece, and the show translated that well, as well as her reaction to the Purple Wedding. Pity they couldn't keep the standard. Quote Macbeth still has his courage at the end, and Othello his honour. Othello is the single play which made me cry in the theatre. The man was totally broken, just a shell of his former self, but what really got me was Emilia, Jago's wife, when she realised to what ends her love and trust for her husband had been abused. Quote Daenerys's end in this series is more like a Jacobean splatterfest, - such as 'Tis Pity She's a Whore" where characters just slaughter each other for the evulz. Or, "she's mad 'cos she's a Targaryen, nothing to be done". Wow, what a psychological masterpiece. 37 minutes ago, SeanF said: My point was that the loyal bodyguards of even complete monsters will usually avenge them. Dunno if this was based on a historical account, but in Graves' I, Claudius, Caligula's German guard nearly goes on a killing spree hearing about his death, and was only prevented by someone lying to them that the emperor survived. I would fully expect the Dothraki to do just that, and given Greyworm's turn for evil, perhaps even the Unsullied. Either way, neither the Dothraki nor the Unsullied should have had any say in anything - they were a foreign invading force loyal to the Mad Queen, and as such massacred in retaliation, which would make the whole thing even more tragic due to their role in saving the realm from the NK. BTW, when Jon was imprisoned, why didn't Arya use her ninja skills to break him out? Or, why not have her infiltrate the prison to break him out, and him refuse because he felt he deserved to be punished? Or even better, not have him imprisoned at all, and rather let him refuse the crown and punish himself? As in, give him some agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, divica said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/hbo-boss-on-game-of-thrones-finale-backlash-coffee-cup-gate-prequels-status-and-why-spinoffs-arent-in-the-cards/ar-AABIyC8 Is this guy serious? Really, people should read this stupid interview! HBO & all the actors and people involved in the series will never admit the level of disruption inadequacy shame (I am lacking the words) they have created. Everyone one of them will defend in spite of every evidence their work in order to get at least some money back. I bet no one will ever publicly admit the level of disaster and money loss this last series will bring about. If they did some heads might roll, it's the way it goes in (badly managed) business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Sparrow Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Such a truly horrible episode... Why is Tyrion still alive? He said "our queen doesn't keep prisoners long" or something to that effect. Um, how long did she keep Vary or any of the others? SHE DID NOT! She just executed them. Grrr .. more bad writing and fanservice. Why is John stll alive? Dogon or the unsullied should definitely have killed him Why is Stansa still alive? Edmure Tully should have lopped off her bitch head after she ridiculed him like that. I know this one's a reach, but look, the precedent had already been set. Kill the Queen of the realm, you're sent to the Knight's Watch (kinda sorta). So, what would the punishment be for killing the "queen" of just one province? A few weeks in Dorne? Why is Arya still alive? She should have died from that stab and twist to the gut a couple seasons ago. If not from the severity of the wound itself, which even with today's medicine survival would be far from assured ... most definitely from the infection after she jumped in the sewage filled water of Bravos afterwards. Why is Bronn still alive? You mean NONE of the lords of The Reach, the wealthiest of the regions has enough money to hire a decent assassin to get rid of this shady character who has been made their Lord, and has no army? I thought D&D wanted to "shock" ... just kill off everybody then and elect some random guy you introduce in the last episode as the new king of Westeros. It would be a better ending than this pile of dung I suffered through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kikajon said: HBO & all the actors and people involved in the series will never admit the level of disruption inadequacy shame (I am lacking the words) they have created. Everyone one of them will defend in spite of every evidence their work in order to get at least some money back. I bet no one will ever publicly admit the level of disaster and money loss this last series will bring about. If they did some heads might roll, it's the way it goes in (badly managed) business. The sad thing is that sometimes, even if you write something with you heart's blood, it may not be enough. I believe that for many actors and crew this is the figuratively the case, and so they don't take the ctiticism well. Yet, nothing I see with Benioff and Weiss gives me the impression that there was this huge emotional investment on their part, definitely not with the latest seasons. Which is why I'm not going to spare them a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 They have made Bran king because he can tell stories. Which D&D are not capable of. It must seem a divine and majestic capability to them...it is a sort of coming out, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Prince of Porne said: It's a good thing Hot Pie didn't resurface this season, or he would have had a vote on the council purely by virtue of being a character we recognized. I'm surprised Ed Sheeran wasn't there. Ed Sheeran wasn't there, but we did learn he had his eyelids burnt off in the Loot Train attack. Bronn's hookers were too busy talking about him in the first episode instead of, you know, acting like Happy Hookers of King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late to the Game Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 11:13 AM, One-Eyed Raven said: The solemn gathering of the "great lords and ladies of Westeros" was impressive, wasn't it. Starks comprised, what, 30% of the assembly? And they were gathered in the first place to...decide Tyrion's fate, I suppose. Cool. The rules are different for Bran, of course, but it seems odd that he would choose that specific moment to reveal that he knew all along how this would resolve. Reasonable people might inquire whether he also knew hundreds of thousands of innocents would burn so he could be king. Reasonable people might also light his wheelchair on fire, roll it toward the Blackwater, and at least TRY to sit Jon on the throne. You remember Jon, the lovable doofus whose STORY includes a freaking RESURRECTION and KILLING the woman responsible for all those CHARRED CORPSES just offscreen thus DELIVERING Planetos from more of the same...in spite of appearing to love said woman. Who, we're told, may have oh so recently and rapidly gone nuts in no small part because it was JUST SO DAMNED OBVIOUS that everyone wanted him on the throne, not her. But fuck Jon, am I right? Sansa never liked him anyway. I agree that this scene was ridiculous. But its purpose was to negotiate with Grey Worm for the fate of Tyrion AND Jon. (Recall that Sansa complained that Jon wasn't also brought as requested). So it makes sense that the Starks and other Jon-centric parties were there at the council in force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said: There were cars in Braavos, so there's that. For those who did not notice the cars the first time (right side, far back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Late to the Game said: Starks comprised, what, 30% of the assembly? And they were gathered in the first place to...decide Tyrion's fate, I suppose. Cool. And one of the 3 determining Tyrion's fate was his legal WIFE. The concept of fairness did not accompany the incursion of Starbucks into Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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