[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

[Dragons Are Real]

56 minutes ago, WeDoNotKneel_HailMance said:

I just discovered this forum and these Rant & Rave threads. What a great way to cope with the travesty the show became, thanks everyone! 1200 posts and counting!

*SNIP*

Your entire post reminds me I kept thinking the Ds never looked at a writer's template.  One where you start with the concept of the scene, state the conflict of the scene, state the main character's motivations, then their internal conflict over how to get through the scene, and show how the resolution leaves you with the next potential conflict for either another scene or within the character(s) themselves.  Instead, when they don't have someone else work all that out for them they just say, "we wanna do this 'cause Fuck Yeah!"  *HI5*  Bleh.

31 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

"Jon, you are half Targaryen and half Stark. Someone who could truly unite the kingdoms if you married Dany. Will you take your position, become what you should and avenge your family forging a new empire?"

'ai dunt wunt eht'

'yaw mah queen'

<stab> 

<back to wandering around a wasteland aimlessly>

Perfect summary of Jon's arc this season.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Arya: "What is West of Westeros?"

Bran:"Maybe I can look for it"

*Roll Credits*

[Vanadis]

1 hour ago, WeDoNotKneel_HailMance said:

I just discovered this forum and these Rant & Rave threads. What a great way to cope with the travesty the show became, thanks everyone! 1200 posts and counting! 

My favorite thread! 
I enjoyed reading about the lack of meaningful choices in the later seasons. Well spotted.

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

And all the while being cute and sweet towards Ramsay - that would have been Sansa!

Sansa was a plot device for Theon's story, unfortunately. They needed to make her a victim so that he could find the courage to save her. 

The result was just silly, not just because it was time for Sansa to start taking control of her situation, but because one would think Littlefinger had a plan behind it all as well...

 

58 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

Is it kinda a joke that they sent Jon to the Night's Watch when it didn't exist anymore?

Well, to be fair, the Wall was an institution in its own right even back when nobody knew White Walkers existed. If people of Westeros didn't have a need for the Night's Watch during all that time, they would have been gone long ago.
 

15 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

The deaths became too predictable and in some cases here was absolutely no emotion like in the case of Barristan Selmy.

Barristan Selmy's death was underwhelming. It made no sense. From a story viewpoint, they had not used him for anything important. From a within-universe standpoint, it was simply a fight he and his friends should have won. The show gained nothing from his death, but it lost an interesting tension between Dany's advisers. A very sad death for all the wrong reasons.

[Kaapstad]

10 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

My favorite thread! 
I enjoyed reading about the lack of meaningful choices in the later seasons. Well spotted.

Sansa was a plot device for Theon's story, unfortunately. They needed to make her a victim so that he could find the courage to save her. 

The result was just silly, not just because it was time for Sansa to start taking control of her situation, but because one would think Littlefinger had a plan behind it all as well...

 

Well, to be fair, the Wall was an institution in its own right even back when nobody knew White Walkers existed. If people of Westeros didn't have a need for the Night's Watch during all that time, they would have been gone long ago.
 

Barristan Selmy's death was underwhelming. It made no sense. From a story viewpoint, they had not used him for anything important. From a within-universe standpoint, it was simply a fight he and his friends should have won. The show gained nothing from his death, but it lost an interesting tension between Dany's advisers. A very sad death for all the wrong reasons.

Cersei also blowing up the Sept made me feel nothing for Margaery, Kevan, High Sparrow and the other deaths. They simply killed them off as they didn't know how to handle the excellent political dialogue and the plot if they came out of there alive and how to deal with the High Sparrow. Baelish gets a silly death which is an insult to his intelligence. The instant Bran said "Chaos is a ladder", the Baelish of Season 1-4 would have hightailed it out of Winterfell but he sticks around and we know he is gonna die/ Ever since Season 5, there is very less political maneuvering and characters are no longer grey. Its all black and white. You know the good guys and the bad guys and the bad guys have to die. The good guys get plot armour (taken to the extreme in 8x03 where literally no one of importance dies). Season 7 and 8 virtually eliminate any dialogue and are all about flashy fights. Binge watch season 8 and you realise 2 hours worth of content is nothing meaningful but characters walking around with no clever quips and dry dialogue.

[Hodor's Dragon]

41 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

<snip> The moment Dany went mad in Episode 5, everyone knew it was curtains for her in Episode 6. It would have been more surprising and more GOTesque if she was NOT killed.<snip>

Realistically, she wouldn't have been giving big speeches to a Nazi parade, she would've been on Drogon's back beelining to Winterfell, which doesn't have the benefit of any of those big crossbows. And wherever Sansa goes, if she runs, she had best either get a bunch of those big crossbows somehow or else keep her location on the down and low.

At the end of the Godfather, did Michael take action to kill an enemy? Hell no. He took action to kill his enemies. 

[Kaapstad]

Oh yeah and those crossbows are downright comical. Its like the crossbows in Episode 4 were stinger missiles or had an aimbot on them as 3 of them nail the dragon perfectly while Drogon is not even injured and in Episode 5, Drogon literally takes on a shit ton of crossbows and none of them scores a single hit. Its like his speed has levelled up and no crossbow can nail him ,not even 1.

Its all so ridiculous with him acting OOC in the throne room, that you could literally make up any comical ending for Jon like Bran waiting a week or 2, then sending a raven asking him to come back and be king as his only objective was to see how easy it was to take over the country and manipulate everything and now he just wants be a weirwood tree and it still would fit within the standards set by D&D!

[teej6]

So Charles Dance didn’t just stop with stating that the finale was confusing. He really threw shade D&D’s way. This is entire statement:

”I’ve watched as much as I can because there are characters like Daenerys – her character and my character never met – so I wanted to know what happened to these people.’ I got to the very end and I thought, ‘Hm, okay.’ There’s little Arya going off on a cruise somewhere; poor Jon’s gone back to the North and all the people left alive are sat around, ‘Shall we have a cup of tea?’ I thought, agh, I don’t know.”

[MinscS2]

I'm not at all surprised seeing actor's who hasn't been on the show for some time (Charles Dance, Jason Momoa, Ian McElhinney and probably more to come) but still care about it and/or the books, throw shade or outright dislike at the way the show ended. 

Give it some time and once the dust has settled, I bet we'll see more and more actors who stayed all the way to S8 will stop defending the ending and instead show their dislike of how the show turned out and ended.
Heck, it's been less than a week and Peter Dinklage can barely hide his contempt when talking about D&D, Conleth Hill didn't seem very impressed, Emilia Clarke has been very clear about her feelings on the matter, and Joe Dempsie basically made a "fuck this shit I'm out"-speech where he made fun of the lack of character-development (or rather, how it was thrown out the window.)

I don't even think that Kit Harrington truly wants to defend S8, he just feels morally obliged to do so considering he almost broke his NDA earlier during an interview, so now he's trying to make up for it.
 

[Nightwish]

39 minutes ago, teej6 said:

So Charles Dance didn’t just stop with stating that the finale was confusing. He really threw shade D&D’s way. This is entire statement:

”I’ve watched as much as I can because there are characters like Daenerys – her character and my character never met – so I wanted to know what happened to these people.’ I got to the very end and I thought, ‘Hm, okay.’ There’s little Arya going off on a cruise somewhere; poor Jon’s gone back to the North and all the people left alive are sat around, ‘Shall we have a cup of tea?’ I thought, agh, I don’t know.”

He is gentle. 

[teej6]

1 minute ago, Nightwish said:

He is gentle. 

Yeah he was critical but at the same time polite. 

[Techmaester]

3 hours ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Perfect summary of Jon's arc this season.

D&D should be proud, my expectations were thoroughly subverted. The expectation of good writing, the expectation of characters to grow beyond what they were when they started. A protagonist who isn't a piece of shit and attempts to skirt responsibility for relationships, his parents, his aunt and had greater aspirations than being a nothing. 

[divica]

2 hours ago, Vanadis said:

Well, to be fair, the Wall was an institution in its own right even back when nobody knew White Walkers existed. If people of Westeros didn't have a need for the Night's Watch during all that time, they would have been gone long ago.

And by the time the series starts the NW is almost gone. And its porpuse was to defend westeros from the ww (which people didn t believe existed) and the wildlings because they were constantly atacking the north.

Now there is nothing for the NW to do...

[Nightwish]

9 minutes ago, divica said:

And by the time the series starts the NW is almost gone. And its porpuse was to defend westeros from the ww (which people didn t believe existed) and the wildlings because they were constantly atacking the north.

Now there is nothing for the NW to do...

Serve as exhile punishment? And why  can’t John return, who will punish him Bran? And how does Greyworm know that Jon will execute his service? Bran will send him ravens? Can this seriously be what Martin wrote? 

[Tyrek Lannister]

Lack of source material is a bitch.

I wonder what the ratio of dialogue to exposure would be if we made a similar comparison somewhere in S01 to S03.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Nightwish said:

Serve as exhile punishment? And why  can’t John return, who will punish him Bran? And how does Greyworm know that Jon will execute his service? Bran will send him ravens? Can this seriously be what Martin wrote? 

The most I can get from what happened is that at least the gift, karhold, probably the clans and maybe a few other places (skagos or bear Island, last heart) will separate from the north a form their own kingdom that expands towards north of the Wall. This new kingdom will be led by jon where he will lead all these savage people to be more civilized and be at peace with the rest of westeros.

But this just sounds like a huge mental gimnastic to say that the north will be full of savages and that jon will be in charge of the north and add the lands beyhond the Wall to his kingdom...

[Nightwish]

4 minutes ago, divica said:

The most I can get from what happened is that at least the gift, karhold, probably the clans and maybe a few other places (skagos or bear Island, last heart) will separate from the north a form their own kingdom that expands towards north of the Wall. This new kingdom will be led by jon where he will lead all these savage people to be more civilized and be at peace with the rest of westeros.

But this just sounds like a huge mental gimnastic to say that the north will be full of savages and that jon will be in charge of the north and add the lands beyhond the Wall to his kingdom...

The king Beyond the wall...who may never return because Greyworm who is miles away said so and his tree brother became King in his place so he can enforce Greyworm’s punishment?

“He must know Sam, you must tell him”

 But now it seems he had already packed his luggage for the throne two seasons back and had bought to Jon a nice new coat for the harsh winter 

i still can’t get over these nonsense. 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

So Charles Dance didn’t just stop with stating that the finale was confusing. He really threw shade D&D’s way. This is entire statement:

”I’ve watched as much as I can because there are characters like Daenerys – her character and my character never met – so I wanted to know what happened to these people.’ I got to the very end and I thought, ‘Hm, okay.’ There’s little Arya going off on a cruise somewhere; poor Jon’s gone back to the North and all the people left alive are sat around, ‘Shall we have a cup of tea?’ I thought, agh, I don’t know.”

Good man. 

But Dance throwing shade at the show is nothing new. 

[on certain scenes in the television series Game of Thrones (2011)] You saw all this violence and all this rumpy pumpy, and it's all doggie-style. I said to [the executive producers] "Obviously, the missionary position didn't come into vogue for a few years yet in the Seven Kingdoms". And they said "We wanted it to be kind of animalistic, Charles" and I said, "Well, it's certainly that".

[Lady Fevre Dream]

1 hour ago, Tyrek Lannister said:

Lack of source material is a bitch.

I wonder what the ratio of dialogue to exposure would be if we made a similar comparison somewhere in S01 to S03.

LOLOLOL  I like how they are mixing it up, though, Tyrion seems to be skipping through time, silently, of course.  I'm going to keep this, check it out sporadically.  I'm not watching it all in one sitting. 

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Was there a backlash though? Of course, no-one was happy that their favourite characters died, but the story was good, so we mourned them and jumped on our seats to get moar. I don't recall anyone hating on the show because of the Red Wedding.

Well, those were the good ol days. You probably remember this... I do, and it HURTS. 

Right before or early on during series 1 David and Dan pled with the book fans to keep a tight lid on spoilers (Ned’s death). And after the scene aired and people went mad on the tinternet, David and Dan thanked book fans for being awesome and not spoiling anything for shownlies. That was the honeymoon. Then we had series 2 and 3 and book “purists” started to moan... but RED WEDDING! So kewl, and by that time the show runners felt emboldened enough and confident enough to do things that were... well, stupid. Jaime and Cersei in the sept, Brienne v Hound fight. Arya arriving at the Gates of the Moon and saying, “I’m Arya Stark”, and no one gave two fucks. And downhill it went, picking up speed the further it diverged. 

As to hating the show’s version of the RW... I did. But by then I couldn’t t take that stupidity seriously. Robb taking pregnant ”Talisa” (  ) to the Twins after breaking the marriage pact w/ the Freys? Soooooo stupid, and such obvious emotional manipulation of the audience... on top of being the exact opposite of what Robb did in the books. But... “yeah, let’s stabb the foetus in utero, so SHOCKING”. Yikes. I remember my Unsullied husband was horrified beyond words... and I’m not sure which horrified him most, the foetus being stabbed in the belly, or me fucking laughing my arse off. 

Anyhoo... I seem to have gone on a side rant here, apologies.

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, those were the good ol days. You probably remember this... I do, and it HURTS. 

Right before or early on during series 1 David and Dan pled with the book fans to keep a tight lid on spoilers (Ned’s death). And after the scene aired and people went mad on the tinternet, David and Dan thanked book fans for being awesome and not spoiling anything for shownlies. That was the honeymoon. Then we had series 2 and 3 and book “purists” started to moan... but RED WEDDING! So kewl, and by that time the show runners felt emboldened enough and confident enough to do things that were... well, stupid. Jaime and Cersei in the sept, Brienne v Hound fight. Arya arriving at the Gates of the Moon and saying, “I’m Arya Stark”, and no one gave two fucks. And downhill it went, picking up speed the further it diverged. 

As to hating the show’s version of the RW... I did. But by then I couldn’t t take that stupidity seriously. Robb taking pregnant ”Talisa” (  ) to the Twins after breaking the marriage pact w/ the Freys? Soooooo stupid, and such obvious emotional manipulation of the audience... on top of being the exact opposite of what Robb did in the books. But... “yeah, let’s stabb the foetus in utero, so SHOCKING”. Yikes. I remember my Unsullied husband was horrified beyond words... and I’m not sure which horrified him most, the foetus being stabbed in the belly, or me fucking laughing my arse off. 

Anyhoo... I seem to have gone on a side rant here, apologies.

Old gods, I just pictured the faces as you laughed and choked and laughed some more.