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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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Posted (edited)

This episode was terrible enough to finally jolt me out of lurkdom.

While there were some moments that I quite liked (the throne room scene in particular was well done and acted - and the music as always was on point), the second half was jarring to watch. So many moments didn't make sense, or were just wrong, that I was glad when it finally ended. 

Some of the low points:

  • So apparently Jon and Tyrion understand Dothraki and Valyrian now? (I guess Tyrion has already demonstrated some knowledge of Valyrian but still). Though I guess Dany's head-to-toe black leather and cheering marauders was translation enough...
  • Some of the fairly key plot points were pretty ambiguous. Among the group I was watching with, we all took away different interpretations. Are we supposed to believe that Bran foresaw all of this happening and didn't say/do anything to stop it? And if so, what does that say about his 'fitness' to rule? Also, did Jon abandon the NW and go off with the wildlings, or is he just escorting them home? I prefer the former so am just pretending that's what happened. However, it says something pretty clearly about your skill as a storyteller when at multiple points in one episode, the audience is confused about what actually happened. 
  • I found the entire selection committee scene ridiculous. Apparently Arya, Brienne, and Davos get a vote in deciding the future ruler of Westeros, despite being lords of nothing? (Although Tyrion did refer to Davos as 'Lord Davos' at some point, so I guess he got an offscreen promotion). If they wanted to have them there, at least have them giving input/counsel and not voting. 
  • Sansa just gets to decide that the North will be independent and no-one says anything or follows suit? Even Yara, who technically already got her independence in Season 6? Maybe she forgot about it - there does seem to be a bad case of plot-driven amnesia making its way around.
  • Greyworm was surprisingly easy to talk down from his murderous rampage. If only they'd tried that on Dany...
  • The less said about the small council meeting the better. Pure fan service. I mean, Ser Pod of the Kingsguard?? Oh how the mighty have fallen.

I've noticed the ratings for this season on IMDB falling since last night - even for earlier episodes. This one's now at 4.6. I also re-watched that interview with Kit where he's asked to summarize the season in 1 word and lets "disappointing" slip before he corrects himself.  The dejection and defeat in his voice and body. I feel you Kit.

Edited by Patron Saint of Wargs

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This episode has a very Hunger Games book 3 feel to it. Which isn't a compliment.

 

Someone is murdered, they have a "trial" nothing happens, they wrap up the series that makes no sense the end. 

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8 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

They hacked that off from a completely unrelated character and ruined the character development George had planned for Sansa in the process. I wouldn't rule out Jon and Sansa marrying in the books, it will at the very least be discussed as an option.

Yea, there has been too much buildup in Jon and Sansa's arcs for it to all be George simply trolling us. Like I said in my other post, he;'s now got the unenviable task of making sure he doesn't have his legendarium completely hosed by what D&D did...

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I liked some scenes in the first half, but everything after Drogon flies away was a parody. Even some scenes I liked got ruined later by having their significance taken away by future plot development. For example, I liked the scene of Drogon burning the Iron Throne as a nice symbolic way to show that the seven kingdoms are over. But then everyone still insists on having keeping a king over Westeros (minus the North). So the whole Iron Throne melting scene is reduced to destruction of furniture. It has no significance, there is still a king of Westeros (minus the North), he just lost a chair, which he didn't need anyway, because he has a cooler one on wheels.

So much else that made no sense:

- Barely any stones around Jaime and Cersei's bodies. Their death was just bad luck apparently, if they stood a few meters to the left, they would be fine.

- Is Jon really this dumb that he still needs convincing about Dany being a threat to everyone after what happened last episode?

- Dany wonders around all by herself, none of her endless supply of multiplying unsullied around to protect her from potential danger. Makes sense, I mean, who would want to hurt this lovable genocidal maniac?

- How did the unsullied find out that Jon killed Dany? Did they check the CCTV feed? Or did he tell them himself?

- Who are these people at the Dragonpit council? Why are the likes of Davos, Brienne and Sam deciding the fate of Westeros? Is Sam a lord all of a sudden? How come he is a maester in the next scene?

- Why does anyone think Bran would make a good king? Because Tyrion said so? What have we seen from Bran that makes him a good king? Are these people not worried about his abilities to see everything they do or did in the past. Is this a prequel to Orwell's 1984?

- They choose Sansa's brother to be king and she is the only one who doesn't accept it? Everyone else is cool with it. Why exactly do they not want independence for themselves?

- Bronn gets to be the most powerful man in Westeros, because he blackmailed two blokes in a bar. They make him minister of finance too.

- The whole council meeting scene with extremely cheesy dialogue and just total cringeworthyness of it all.

- Someone should call Sherlock Holmes to investigate the mystery of the vanishing Dothraki. Interestingly, they have been multiplying exponentially for a few episodes now, only to disappear completely.

- Arya channeling Columbus, because they writers had no idea what to do with her character. I hope she brought lots of lemons to her journey, scurvy is a nasty thing (I guess it was Sansa, who was into lemons though)

- Why is there a nights watch and why are the wildlings going beyond the wall when they have been trying for 5 seasons to get the other way?

- Also, why is Jon such a dick, letting all those women and children, and the one old guy, walk while he rides a horse?

Glad it's over and I hope we get to read a more satisfying ending to the story when the books are finished.

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This shit was hilarious.

One episode they piss me off with butchering Dany's character and the next i'm glad for it because at least she gets a memorable end in the show. And by that i don't mean the telenovela garbage which was Jon killing her (dying in his arms, oh fuck off will ya) but Drogon nudging her dead body, seeing his heartbreak, and carrying her away. I loved that scene.

Drogon melting the IT was such powerful symbolism that we get a new king of Westeros like 20 minutes later. Ah but you see, it looks cool. Except not really. Drogon munching on Jon would've been actually cool and made narrative sense. Plus DotD callback but whatever.

I honestly don't care enough about the show Stahks anymore to bother complaining about their endings. Yeah, i'd be thrilled af if Sansa became Queen inda Norf in the books. Ice Queen Sandra makes me feel nothing though.

Tyrone actually had a decent moment when he sassed Dany. The rest was painful.

Of course they had to shit on Edmure again and really made Bronn the lord of Highgarden. The fuck is wrong with these guys.

Hey, let's do a list of characters that had a more satisfying conclusion to their arc than any of the surviving POVs: 

Lord Gendry, Ser Podrick, Gilly, Hotpie, Meera, the Oldtown maesters, Sweet Robin, Royce, Daario (?), Anguy, the red priestess in Volantis, Ramsey's hounds, the Lannister Tywin kicked out of the council meeting at Harrenhal.

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7 hours ago, Wight nr 121 said:

Just finished the last episode. Oh my, fine to get that out of my system. It's so sad, actually, that what started as a really good TV show and story back in season 1, was to degenerate into this nonsensical mess. It's sad, because I feel as if humanity could have gotten this great work of art, but ended up with a useless piece of garbage. As if Michelangelo had painted just a quarter of the roof of the Sistine Chapel, and then had decided just to smear his own puke all over the roof, including the part of the roof he had already painted. I grieve for what could have been. And I have long ago given up hope that we will ever get the book version of the story, so well, that's that. Good riddance, GOT. Thank you for all the wasted time.

It actually got worse with each season after S 1, but of course, the fall in quality became dramatic as soon as the show overtook the books, that is, from the last episodes of season 5 actually (And of course, the Dorne plot was absolute rubbish from start to finish). And then worse and worse with each season therafter. There was no hope of a decent finale, of course, because the groundwork laid in seasons 6, 7 and the first 5 episodes of this season was so weak. But then, D & D managed to outdo themselves by how ridiculous the last episode was, at least from after Dany was killed. Their incompetence as writers really shines through in such situations, when they are to write a story about how the aftermath of such a massive incident plays out. They really have no clue how to handle and how to present such a dramatic and complicated situation.

The "Grand Council" meeting, which became kind of the event the whole series built up to, just seemed like kind of a farce, and had absolutely zero believability. One after one agree to make Bran the king of the 7 kingdoms because Tyrion, in chains, tells them to. But then Sansa asks that the North be independent, and that's fine, according to Bran. And the rest of the lords think that is no problem - we still want to be a united kingdom (as if the others kingdoms had not been independent before Aegons' conquest too, as much as the North had been, and it's not as if nobody cares to remember that Yara actually secured the Ironborns' independence back in S 6, least of all herself). And we still want A NORTHERN NOBLE, that is, from the newly independent North, to be our king. Let the Starks have their independence, and let us invite one of them to rule us as well! It's like, WHAT??? What kind of a plot and what kind of a power play was this?

I guess the only reasonable interpretation of this whole mess is that the theme of the whole story (or of the last 3 to 4 seasons) is THAT EVERY MAJOR CHARACTER IS EXTREMELY STUPID, and therefore consistently acts in nonsensical ways.

And don't get me started on the "make-up" of the "Great Council" (was Sam there because he somehow had become Grand Maester, but just hadn't gotten his Maester clothes yet, or as Lord Tarly - and if he had become Lord Tarley, why was he suddenly Grand Maester the following episode?). And why were all the Stark siblings allowed a seat and a vote (seemingly), did this apply to the other noble houses as well? Was it kind of, like, any nobleman (and woman) in Westeros could actually attend this and vote, and this bunch were all the nobles that were left or who cared to attend?

And then that Jon had to be sentenced to serve in a non-existent Night's Watch to appease the Unsullied's wrath, and then the Unsullied were going to leave Westeros anyway (because Missandei had told beatiful stories about Naath to GW, so he of course has to bring all his brothers in arms on a dangerous voyage to an unknown land instead of taking the offer of land and lordships in Westeros. But I pity the poor people of Naath who is soon going to have this army descending on them...).

And the Dothraki conviniently just ceased to exist again. Or did they accompany the Unsullied to Naath? And if so, why? Well, I guess the people of Naath has much to look forward to.

And so on, and so on. Almost no single piece of the story told in the last episode made any sense. But I guess it doesn't matter because it all built up to having Bronn and Sam together on the small council, with Bronn arguing with Sam about whether to use public money on the rebuilding of the brothels. HAHAHAHA, it's so funny, Bronn has become master of coin and wants to use public money on subsidizing businesses where women can eke out a living selling their bodies to men. HAHAHAHA, oh Bronn, you're the best, you crack me up. So great that the whole series, who many have hailed for supposedly portraying strong women,  built up to that epic moment.

And so on, and so on. There is so much which could be said, but when all is said and done, the sad conclusion is that what could have been a great work of art (based on S 1 and the source material) ended up as worthless soap opera garbage.

But whatever. We still have Shakespeare, Tolkien, Eurypides. The Wire, Sopranos, The Americans. Great stories by great writers! Something you never were, and probably never will be, D and D. Thank you and goodbye!

:bowdown:

I know I should have just used the 'thanks' like button, but I have used up my limit of reactions today.

But that was really well written, thank you!

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59 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

She liberated people for most of her arc, never dodged a battle even if it meant putting herself in personal danger, fought the army of the undead to save everyone in Westeros, I think those deeds were heroic, so no it isn't just my opinion, it is something I can back up with facts.

You missed the joke. 

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It was really really really really bad in almost every aspect but in particular Drogon melting the Iron Throne is one of the worst storytelling decisions ever made on television.

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It's dawned on me that none of this even feels like an 'ending.'  First off, it felt like a least two separate episodes, the first one ran up until Dany's death and Drogon's departure.  The second one seems like everything that came after.  Granted, it almost felt like three episodes thanks to the epilogue (and silent) feeling of all the Stark departures, new chapters in life, but I'll leave it at two episodes right now. 

The first epi piece, yes, was the rushed and problematic new heel turn from Mad Dany from the end of episode 5 to...............I guess Frauline Hitler?  Or would it be Frau?  I'm not sure what is worse.  The sad, mad mess of episode 5 or the new self confident Tyrant for All Time? 

The second part didn't really even seem like a finished episode in and of itself.  It felt like a mishmash of every thread idea and theory, good, mediocre, bad, and horrible that I've ever read on the book side and elsewhere.  It was a rough draft of all kinds of theory ideas with some of the Ds attempts at what they think were cute callbacks and their own humor sprinkled in for good(?) measure.

I really do not even feel like this was an ending episode.

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1 minute ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

It's dawned on me that none of this even feels like an 'ending.'  First off, it felt like a least two separate episodes, the first one ran up until Dany's death and Drogon's departure.  The second one seems like everything that came after.  Granted, it almost felt like three episodes thanks to the epilogue (and silent) feeling of all the Stark departures, new chapters in life, but I'll leave it at two episodes right now. 

The first epi piece, yes, was the rushed and problematic new heel turn from Mad Dany from the end of episode 5 to...............I guess Frauline Hitler?  Or would it be Frau?  I'm not sure what is worse.  The sad, mad mess of episode 5 or the new self confident Tyrant for All Time? 

The second part didn't really even seem like a finished episode in and of itself.  It felt like a mishmash of every thread idea and theory, good, mediocre, bad, and horrible that I've ever read on the book side and elsewhere.  It was a rough draft of all kinds of theory ideas with some of the Ds attempts at what they think were cute callbacks and their own humor sprinkled in for good(?) measure.

I really do not even feel like this was an ending episode.

EXACTLY! For someone known as hating the end of LOST this should feel as a FU...

I wouldn t even be surprised if they decide to make some continuation of GOT... Like TV movies showing what happens after...

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Are we supposed to believe that they have really broken the wheel?

As soon as Bran dies there will be a huge conflict over who gets the throne next. All they have done is prolonged another conflict similar to the end of Roberts rebellion.

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1 hour ago, gorkem said:

Writing something this bad is an achievement. It is really.

Bronn becomes the lord of one of the most important houses and everyone accepts it. Sansa decides that the north should be free and everyone accepts it. Arya suddenly decides that she should be an explorer.

They could have done like this. Tyrion says the same things to Jon. Jon goes to Dany as he did but this time he can't kill her. So he tries to leave but Dany tries to stop him. When he says that "he will leave her" or something she tries to kill him but Drogon doesn't obey her so he leaves. Dany sends messengers to throughout the Westeros and demands that everyone should bend the knee. Nearly everyone does except the Starks and the north. Dany decides to attack north, she starts to ready his army. At this point, Arya decides that she should kill her but while trying she dies. Because of this, Jon decides that he should kill Dany. So, Jon goes and kills Dany. Drogon burns the throne and the same things happen. Except for stupid Bran thing. Every kingdom declares its independence. Bran goes to the north to love a tree or something.

Or this is even better. Night king destroys the wall and kills everyone. Except for Drogon, Ghost, and Nymeria. Drogon takes them to a safe place. Then they have hundreds of good bois and girls.

LOL  If the NK wins and destroys everyone, we should also have Rhaegal left alive as well.  I'm good with that, by the way.  Just wanted to make sure he or SHE was included in the magical animal HEA!! 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I'm sorry I assumed you read the books and knew that when I referenced Jeyne Poole it was in reference to Ramsay presenting her to the world as Arya Stark and torturing and raping her, they gave that whole storyline to Sansa so that is relative to the shows narrative and character plot. They hacked that off from a completely unrelated character and ruined the character development George had planned for Sansa in the process. I wouldn't rule out Jon and Sansa marrying in the books, it will at the very least be discussed as an option.

I know that.  And I don't care.  I only am interested in analyzing what does and doesn't work in the HBO series as narrative, story telling, plotting and characterization, and why it does or does not work.

The books went dead to me, long, long ago, and I give not a damn about them.

Edited by Zorral

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I almost laughed at the council-scene. D&D really made everything so fucking easy for themselves with this ending.
This whole episode feels like something they wrote down on a napkin during dinner at McDonalds. 

Drogon frenzied because Jon kills Daenerys? Nah he ignores the person who killed his mom, destroys the throne, grabs her corpse and flies off, never to be seen again. Unsullied and Dothraki start butchering everyone and cause Westeros to fall into a new civil war? Nah, after the leader they have undying loyalty towards dies, the Dothraki mysteriously vanish and the Unsullied are seemingly content with keeping Tyrion and Jon (who I presume told everyone that he had just killed Daenerys and how, given that no one else saw what happened) prisoners in the ruins of King's Landing for some reason.

This ending was so god damn anti-climactic. I can't even rant about it.

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1 minute ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOL  If the NK wins and destroys everyone, we should also have Rhaegal left alive as well.  I'm good with that, by the way.  Just wanted to make sure he or SHE was included in the magical animal HEA!! 

While Gorkem kinda forgot Rhaegal, Lady Fevre Dream certainly haven't forgotten... :D

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

I almost laughed at the council-scene. D&D really made everything so fucking easy for themselves with this ending.
This whole episode feels like something they wrote down on a napkin during dinner at McDonalds. 

Drogon frenzied because Jon kills Daenerys? Nah he ignores the person who killed his mom, destroys the throne, grabs her corpse and flies off, never to be seen again. Unsullied and Dothraki start butchering everyone and cause Westeros to fall into a new civil war? Nah, after the leader they have undying loyalty towards dies, the Dothraki mysteriously vanish and the Unsullied are seemingly content with keeping Tyrion and Jon (who I presume told everyone that he had just killed Daenerys and how, given that no one else saw what happened) prisoners in the ruins of King's Landing for some reason.

This ending was so god damn anti-climactic. I can't even rant about it.

When Sam announced the name of the book I geuinley expected him to wink at the camera.

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15 hours ago, Wsc48 said:

Shouldn't Daenerys have had, like, a Queensguard? But no. She just wanders the Red Keep with zero body guards. And after Jon had warned Tyrion not wander around in the Red Keep because "it's not safe"  So stupid. 

Ah well probably the least of this episodes problems. 

She had a freakin' dragon watching the door. It only let Jon through because it was Jon, the queen's beau and fellow Targaryen rider of dragons.

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5 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOL  If the NK wins and destroys everyone, we should also have Rhaegal left alive as well.  I'm good with that, by the way.  Just wanted to make sure he or SHE was included in the magical animal HEA!! 

Really, Dany should have just said "f*ck this for a game of soldiers" and shown Dragon and Rhaegal back to Meereen.

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36 minutes ago, That Westerosi Dude said:

This episode has a very Hunger Games book 3 feel to it. Which isn't a compliment.

HG3 had its issues but compared to this, it is a masterpiece. Unlike Dany's, Katniss' mental breakdown is very plausible.

35 minutes ago, Khal Ivo said:

I liked the scene of Drogon burning the Iron Throne as a nice symbolic way to show that the seven kingdoms are over. But then everyone still insists on having keeping a king over Westeros (minus the North). So the whole Iron Throne melting scene is reduced to destruction of furniture.

Drogon is, in fact, an accomplished interior designer. The ugly chair was a kitsch  that didn't fit to the new design of the Red Keep :-)

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I saw an interview D&D did on one of those late night chat shows were they talked about the Game of thrones pilot episode. They admitted it was a disaster that cost 11 million dollars to go down the drain. It was apparently so badly written that the test audience weren't even aware of how Cersei and Jaime were related to each other. HBO were so lucky to have made it to season 8 with writers that bad. I watched nearly all of the GOT con panels and honestly the end of the last episode played out much the same way as all those actors messing around with ideas of what would happen at the end of the series, they had all their water bottles there taking sips thrashing around stupid ideas like democracy or that Bran should the king etc. It's sad the ending was such fan fiction.

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