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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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47 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Drogon had plenty of time to read and study when he was locked up in Meereen…

He was going through a Holden Caufield phase then flying around the Dothraki sea. Torching KL was his 'nam tour of duty, now he's gone full hippie :laugh:

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1 minute ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

But he was the only dragon not locked up in Meereen. I guess you kinda forgot that?

Ooops… Damn I feel dumber than Dumber himself now…

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15 minutes ago, darmody said:

Remember back when Dany was in Essos and nobody much paid attention to her in Westeros? Cersei blew up the frickin' Vatican and for all everyone knows assassinated her son. Then she assumed the throne despite having no claim. (And if she did have a claim, I think Jaime would be ahead of her.) Are we supposed to believe Qyburn was her Goebbels and tricked her subjects into accepting her?

Because I think she should have lasted as long as it took to kill Zombie Mountain. Cersei isn't good at propaganda. She's simply played by an actress the show likes. 

Okay, she made some good arguments in front of Randall Tarly. But there's really no reason he should take the word of a kinsexer and mass murderess who killed his liege-lord and Queen.

The show might have done something interesting if they showed how Cersei was mercilessly killing anyone who dissented and spending her time quelling riots while Dany was obsessing about her battle strategy, e.g. Cersei will appear more powerful from the outside, and a more realistic aftermath of the sept would have also given Lena something to do as an actress beyond stare out the window.  Then it would turn out that beating Cersei was really easy, and Dany, being frustrated that the battle is over so quickly torches the city. 

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19 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

He was going through a Holden Caufield phase then flying around the Dothraki sea. Torching KL was his 'nam tour of duty, now he's gone full hippie :laugh:

This right here has spin-off potential.  Think Dodger on China Beach after the war.  Drogon hanging in his converted school bus and making his way 'cross country, occasionally runnin' into others from the great war and trying to find ways to apologize and come to grips with what he's done.  Damn.  I think I'll write up the pitch.  Apparently they'll let you do whatever you want once your foot is in the door.

The whole Cersei self-declared queen thing after blowing up the sept makes ZERO god damn sense the way it played in the show.  They may have been able to come up with some form of believable reason it would work, but they didn't even attempt it.  At the very least what she did would have lead to commoners rioting, if not outright tearing into the castle to rip her to shreds.  WTF?

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13 hours ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

The grass always appears greener on the other side.....until you’ve tried it out.  I don’t think the wildlings felt like they fit in and were accepted.   Some of them probably liked it south of the wall but not all them.  They wanted to go home.  They just wanted the freedom to wander without the confines of the Wall and to getaway from the White Walkers.   I don’t think there is a real NW anymore. It was just a ruse by Tyrion to convince GW not to kill Jon.  The only folks there when they opened the gates were Tormund and the wildlings.  The supposedly NW who accompanied him had no fresh recruits with them and let Jon lead.  

 

It seems unlikely that Grey Worm knows or cares anything about the Night's Watch, or that the difference between Jon taking the black vs. simply being banished beyond the wall (essentially what ended up happening) is something that would matter to him, so I'm not sure what would be the point of a ruse here. 

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Speaking of which I don't understand a couple of points:

1. Who bothered to waste a lot of work to repair the tunnel and the door through the wall when a major part of it crumbled down? I don't expect the Wall was repaired in few months? and by whom? Why not pass through the destroyed part of the wall?

2. Who closes the door behind Jon and the wildlings? Who's remaining back at the remains of Castle Black?

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It was often hard to know what to make of the series as its characters, politics, and themes grew dull, sacrificed on the altar of plot to bring us to this precise moment. Absent any intention beyond moving the pieces into place for the grand finale, Game of Thronesbecame a glittering charm bracelet of beautifully directed symbols strung together solely by the thin connective tissue of gravitas: the score soaring in front of a burned city, the dark wings of a dragon opening behind a tyrant, a hero locked in chains.

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e6/

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18 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SPOT ON!

People were mad about the final season of Game of Thrones, and not just because everyone’s wig looked like hell. They complained about plot points, character arcs, thematic development — pretty much everything other than the visuals.

<snip>

This peek behind the curtains revealed that Benioff and Weiss were the real gods in Westeros, as they explained their decisions about the fate of men and nations with the passion of a dentist excavating a bad tooth. For example, in season seven we learned that Sansa was scared of her sister, because we were shown a clip of Arya threatening her life, followed by Weiss gravely intoning, “I think Sansa is bringing with her a real fear about the idea that Arya might really want to murder her.”

These segments should have been fascinating, given that Benioff and Weiss are at the absolute pinnacle of their field. They’re explaining how they make a piece of art whose cultural footprint has barely any rivals, aside from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and Beyoncé. 

<snip>

But as others have pointed out, during this final, controversial season Benioff and Weiss have not impressed with their performances in the postmortems. Take the second-to-last episode, which featured a number of divisive plot developments. The “Inside the Episode” segment starts with relative promise: Benioff emphasizes that Daenerys’s isolation at the critical stage of the war contributed to her going Sicko Mode. It then sort of goes off the rails, with commentary ranging from the obvious (Arya and the Hound’s final conversation represents the “culmination of their story together”) to the baffling (Varys is Tyrion’s “best friend,” something which must’ve happened off-screen?). It’s hard to see how any of their commentary deepens or enriches our understanding of what we literally just watched. At one point, Weiss says that Arya serves as a “Virgil” figure in the final sequence, guiding us through the Daenerys’ inferno. This is probably the most adventurous either of them get, and it’s a metaphor that, charitably, is in the vicinity of apt.

<snip>

“Inside the Episode” segments reflect the fact that even an audience tends to watch television shows as a sequence of choices by the showrunners, that alongside our reactions to events depicted in a show, we evaluate its showrunners’ performance. Yes, Jon and Daenerys are stupid for their idea of capturing a wight beyond the Wall, but more importantly, Benioff and Weiss are even dumber. After all, they’re really the ones who came up with it, and who expected us to accept it. (Unless, of course, George R. R. Martin came up with it, which mostly hasn’t been the case for a few years.)

So when Benioff and Weiss monotonously explain the subtext of a Thronesscene, or ground a certain event in the history of the show, what they’re doing is appealing to the cultural merit attached to prestige television, while also presenting themselves for the slaughter. Subtext, complexity, and surprise — these are what separate their shows from mere TV. This should have the bonus effect of serving as a preemptive response to criticism. If you had paid close enough attention, they imply, then you would understand that every plot point is an imminently justified artistic decision. Unfortunately, they aren’t able to pull off the performance required (“Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet”) and they end up looking like two guys who are just sort of winging it. Every week of the disappointing final season, thousands of people were looking for someone to blame, and immediately found it.

 

I can't wait to read the whole thing.  Thank you. 

 

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18 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SPOT ON!

People were mad about the final season of Game of Thrones, and not just because everyone’s wig looked like hell. They complained about plot points, character arcs, thematic development — pretty much everything other than the visuals.

<snip>

This peek behind the curtains revealed that Benioff and Weiss were the real gods in Westeros, as they explained their decisions about the fate of men and nations with the passion of a dentist excavating a bad tooth. For example, in season seven we learned that Sansa was scared of her sister, because we were shown a clip of Arya threatening her life, followed by Weiss gravely intoning, “I think Sansa is bringing with her a real fear about the idea that Arya might really want to murder her.”

These segments should have been fascinating, given that Benioff and Weiss are at the absolute pinnacle of their field. They’re explaining how they make a piece of art whose cultural footprint has barely any rivals, aside from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and Beyoncé. 

<snip>

But as others have pointed out, during this final, controversial season Benioff and Weiss have not impressed with their performances in the postmortems. Take the second-to-last episode, which featured a number of divisive plot developments. The “Inside the Episode” segment starts with relative promise: Benioff emphasizes that Daenerys’s isolation at the critical stage of the war contributed to her going Sicko Mode. It then sort of goes off the rails, with commentary ranging from the obvious (Arya and the Hound’s final conversation represents the “culmination of their story together”) to the baffling (Varys is Tyrion’s “best friend,” something which must’ve happened off-screen?). It’s hard to see how any of their commentary deepens or enriches our understanding of what we literally just watched. At one point, Weiss says that Arya serves as a “Virgil” figure in the final sequence, guiding us through the Daenerys’ inferno. This is probably the most adventurous either of them get, and it’s a metaphor that, charitably, is in the vicinity of apt.

<snip>

“Inside the Episode” segments reflect the fact that even an audience tends to watch television shows as a sequence of choices by the showrunners, that alongside our reactions to events depicted in a show, we evaluate its showrunners’ performance. Yes, Jon and Daenerys are stupid for their idea of capturing a wight beyond the Wall, but more importantly, Benioff and Weiss are even dumber. After all, they’re really the ones who came up with it, and who expected us to accept it. (Unless, of course, George R. R. Martin came up with it, which mostly hasn’t been the case for a few years.)

So when Benioff and Weiss monotonously explain the subtext of a Thronesscene, or ground a certain event in the history of the show, what they’re doing is appealing to the cultural merit attached to prestige television, while also presenting themselves for the slaughter. Subtext, complexity, and surprise — these are what separate their shows from mere TV. This should have the bonus effect of serving as a preemptive response to criticism. If you had paid close enough attention, they imply, then you would understand that every plot point is an imminently justified artistic decision. Unfortunately, they aren’t able to pull off the performance required (“Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet”) and they end up looking like two guys who are just sort of winging it. Every week of the disappointing final season, thousands of people were looking for someone to blame, and immediately found it.

 

I normally love programmes about how inventive TV shows are made but I haven't been able to watch any of the GoT since season 5 because of D7D's moronic pronouncements.

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2 hours ago, The Prince of Porne said:

 

It seems unlikely that Grey Worm knows or cares anything about the Night's Watch, or that the difference between Jon taking the black vs. simply being banished beyond the wall (essentially what ended up happening) is something that would matter to him, so I'm not sure what would be the point of a ruse here. 

People not knowing if it was a ruse, if jon remained in the NW, if he left with the wildlings, if he was escorting them or whatever shows how badly written that scene was...

16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It was often hard to know what to make of the series as its characters, politics, and themes grew dull, sacrificed on the altar of plot to bring us to this precise moment. Absent any intention beyond moving the pieces into place for the grand finale, Game of Thronesbecame a glittering charm bracelet of beautifully directed symbols strung together solely by the thin connective tissue of gravitas: the score soaring in front of a burned city, the dark wings of a dragon opening behind a tyrant, a hero locked in chains.

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e6/

Always nice Reading people criticizing the season.

Unfortunatly the chief of HBO thinks that there weren t problems with the show… everything is fine for him...

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I was rewatching Dany's death scene, and I wondered: rather than stab her in the middle of kissing, wouldn't it be a fitting end if Jon pushed her to be impaled on the IT? Would kinda make more sense for Drogon to burn it afterwards, and it would be, I don't know, grander?

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8 minutes ago, divica said:

Unfortunatly the chief of HBO thinks that there weren t problems with the show… everything is fine for him...

I mean the president of HBO can hardly be expected to come out and say it was shit or even mildly criticise it. It's an exercise in damage limitation for HBO and the president has to protect the franchise especially with prequels in the pipeline. He even mentioned being on record as saying that he would have taken five more seasons which basically deflects the blame off the network and onto the showrunners. 

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1 minute ago, Ygrain said:

I was rewatching Dany's death scene, and I wondered: rather than stab her in the middle of kissing, wouldn't it be a fitting end if Jon pushed her to be impaled on the IT? Would kinda make more sense for Drogon to burn it afterwards, and it would be, I don't know, grander?

I love Drogon and am thrilled he lived.  But, it was pretty cheesy to  have the dragon burn the IT, it would have been better if she steps into the throne room and the IT has already been burned by her dragon during the attack...thus, the thing she always wanted no longer exists.  Then Drogon can fly away w/her body.  Everything is the same but a little more subtle and then no explanations expected for exactly how smart are these dragons that Dany has used as an engine of war if he understands an abstract symbol like the throne is the root of Dany's death.

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30 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

I normally love programmes about how inventive TV shows are made but I haven't been able to watch any of the GoT since season 5 because of D7D's moronic pronouncements.

I thought it was sad how Benioff could never pronounce Missandei's name, even though he must have heard it spoken thousands of times.

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13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I love Drogon and am thrilled he lived.  But, it was pretty cheesy to  have the dragon burn the IT, it would have been better if she steps into the throne room and the IT has already been burned by her dragon during the attack...thus, the thing she always wanted no longer exists.  Then Drogon can fly away w/her body.  Everything is the same but a little more subtle and then no explanations expected for exactly how smart are these dragons that Dany has used as an engine of war if he understands an abstract symbol like the throne is the root of Dany's death.

That would work, too. You see there the damaged iron casks or whatever they are called, but the IT right next to a collapsed wall, nada.

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I suppose it's just the people I mix with, but I've had some of them say they were cheering Dany on as she torched Kings Landing, and so left very upset by her death.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I love Drogon and am thrilled he lived.  But, it was pretty cheesy to  have the dragon burn the IT, it would have been better if she steps into the throne room and the IT has already been burned by her dragon during the attack...thus, the thing she always wanted no longer exists.  Then Drogon can fly away w/her body.  Everything is the same but a little more subtle and then no explanations expected for exactly how smart are these dragons that Dany has used as an engine of war if he understands an abstract symbol like the throne is the root of Dany's death.

Totally agree that burning the IT was cheesy.  What Drogon should have done is incinerate Jon right on the spot for killing his mother.  I mean that would actually make sense so I understand why D&D didn't go that route. 

Edited by El Guapo

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1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

Totally agree that burning the IT was cheesy.  What Drogon should have done is incinerate Jon right on the spot for killing his mother.  I mean that would actually make sense so I understand why D&D didn't go that route. 

Creatively, it made sense to them.

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4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Creatively, it made sense to them.

I am sure it did. Just as it made creative sense to them that Grey Worm threw Jon in a dumgeon for a couple months rather than slice Jon's throat on the spot for murdering his Queen. lol

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Phew, it turns out the writers do have limits.

Quote

But there was apparently one character who bit the dust who was originally supposed to survive the series.

Game of Thrones writer Dave Hill revealed that the writers were initially intent on having Jorah Mormont be one of the people waiting for Jon at the Wall in the show’s closing minutes.

:lol:

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