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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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16 hours ago, Ygrain said:

The one good thing that came from the travesty of Cersei and Jaime's arcs

The same is true for Mother of Flame. Only us sound better though. 

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1 hour ago, Dragons Are Real said:

 

Got notified of this over the weekend: 

Uuuuuu, petition signed. It's the least they can do considering how they made a mockery of his character...

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On 5/30/2019 at 7:37 PM, divica said:

I agree and disagree with a lot of what they say here.

I really don t see jon returning to the NW because it has proven to be a useless and flawed order  and is basically a stepback for the character. He has literally been there, done that and moved on… And him deciding to isolate himslef north of the Wall coldhands style seems really depresing for me... And if he has a child he certainly won t abandon him/her...

I also don t see tyrion being hand. He is acused of so many crimes and so generally hated that I have no idea how he can have a political position like hand...

On the other hand I agree with a lot of what they say about sansa and bran...

My thinking is Danys child inherits the throne (I like the symetry). I'm sure GRRM won't discard all the tropes of hight fantasy - some are just plain logical. Imagine if it mirrors the sort of circumstance of Ned and Lyannas "Promise me Ned" Dany makes Jon promise her that her child will sit the iron throne, which means Jon can not claim the throne on her passing. The pressure for king Jon to remarry would be over whelming and of course his new wife would want her children to inherit the throne not Danys child so Jon goes into exile to prevent any complications for said child? It also evokes the symbolism of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa only Light bringer brought forth  is a baby not a sword.

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2 hours ago, hewman said:

The same is true for Mother of Flame. Only us sound better though. 

Yeah, that too... though the title is now rather ominous :-( All the GoT songs by Miracle of Sound are awesome.

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52 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

My thinking is Danys child inherits the throne (I like the symetry). I'm sure GRRM won't discard all the tropes of hight fantasy - some are just plain logical. Imagine if it mirrors the sort of circumstance of Ned and Lyannas "Promise me Ned" Dany makes Jon promise her that her child will sit the iron throne, which means Jon can not claim the throne on her passing. The pressure for king Jon to remarry would be over whelming and of course his new wife would want her children to inherit the throne not Danys child so Jon goes into exile to prevent any complications for said child? It also evokes the symbolism of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa only Light bringer brought forth  is a baby not a sword.

But in that scenario I see jon beeing regent between 10 to 15 years until he decides to exile himself somewhere… He wouldn t abandon his (?) child to be raised by other people. Nor would he leave the realms without trying to make them a better place for the child.

I think grrm has expanded the targ story so much with FaB, dunk and egg and even in asoiaf to let it end in a big tragedy without any future descendents. Even if that was his original plan...

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1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

My thinking is Danys child inherits the throne (I like the symetry). I'm sure GRRM won't discard all the tropes of hight fantasy - some are just plain logical. Imagine if it mirrors the sort of circumstance of Ned and Lyannas "Promise me Ned" Dany makes Jon promise her that her child will sit the iron throne, which means Jon can not claim the throne on her passing. The pressure for king Jon to remarry would be over whelming and of course his new wife would want her children to inherit the throne not Danys child so Jon goes into exile to prevent any complications for said child? It also evokes the symbolism of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa only Light bringer brought forth  is a baby not a sword.

 

16 minutes ago, divica said:

But in that scenario I see jon beeing regent between 10 to 15 years until he decides to exile himself somewhere… He wouldn t abandon his (?) child to be raised by other people. Nor would he leave the realms without trying to make them a better place for the child.

I think grrm has expanded the targ story so much with FaB, dunk and egg and even in asoiaf to let it end in a big tragedy without any future descendents. Even if that was his original plan...

Bran as Regent ;) ?

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23 hours ago, aquintus said:

 

I think Bran is king makes sense if GRMM actually told D&D that Bran ends up as King as in King of the North (he is the oldest living son of Ned Stark, and Robb Stark's heir afterall).

 

Bran as King of the 7 (or 6, I guess) Kingdoms really doesn't make any sense. 

Agreed.

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Tell you what, I've just watched the new Godzilla movie and realised GoT under D&D could be a lot worse!

Same issues - big budget, fancy CGI, utterly ruined by unfeasibly bad writing. You've got script-by-algorithm: ethnics tick, strong females tick, English panto villain tick. And our best buddies, plot armour, teleportation, illogical motivations, characters who can't create any feelings we care about.

I'm reading a lot of reviews on IMdB saying 10/10 whizz-bang, monsters, perfect! Sorry, if you can't construct a reasonable plot, believable characters and a sense of internal logic, you don't get a pass.

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2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Tell you what, I've just watched the new Godzilla movie and realised GoT under D&D could be a lot worse!

Same issues - big budget, fancy CGI, utterly ruined by unfeasibly bad writing. You've got script-by-algorithm: ethnics tick, strong females tick, English panto villain tick. And our best buddies, plot armour, teleportation, illogical motivations, characters who can't create any feelings we care about.

I'm reading a lot of reviews on IMdB saying 10/10 whizz-bang, monsters, perfect! Sorry, if you can't construct a reasonable plot, believable characters and a sense of internal logic, you don't get a pass.

Conversely, you can look at old films and TV series where the props and special effects are ropey in the extreme, but the plots, dialogue, and acting are excellent, and you thoroughly enjoy watching.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Conversely, you can look at old films and TV series where the props and special effects are ropey in the extreme, but the plots, dialogue, and acting are excellent, and you thoroughly enjoy watching.

I can still enjoy campy Adam West!Batman and Twilight Zone. Huge effects budget. 

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Anybody slighting Adam West Batman needs to be summarily dismissed from the conversation.  Sure it was goofy as hell, but it truly brought comics of the time to the screen with lovable characters, crazy plotlines that still resolved in meaningful and fulfilling ways, and special effects that looked straight out of the silly medium they originated from.

 

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4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Conversely, you can look at old films and TV series where the props and special effects are ropey in the extreme, but the plots, dialogue, and acting are excellent, and you thoroughly enjoy watching.

Babylon 5 forever. Seen the whole series three or four times, and never tire of it.

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1 hour ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Anybody slighting Adam West Batman needs to be summarily dismissed from the conversation.  Sure it was goofy as hell, but it truly brought comics of the time to the screen with lovable characters, crazy plotlines that still resolved in meaningful and fulfilling ways, and special effects that looked straight out of the silly medium they originated from.

 

Not dissing in anyway. Just comparing to crap like a Power Rangers remake where it's all effects and flashy explosions. 

And I loved it when even the first movie they made with Michael Keaton tried to keep some of that spirit. It still cracks me up, watching Jack Nicholson go 'Gentlemen, lets broaden our minds!'.

 

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2 minutes ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Not dissing in anyway. Just comparing to crap like a Power Rangers remake where it's all effects and flashy explosions. 

And I loved it when even the first movie they made with Michael Keaton tried to keep some of that spirit. It still cracks me up, watching Jack Nicholson go 'Gentlemen, lets broaden our minds!'.

 

Yeah, I was trying to agree with you.  Guess it didn't come off right.

The Keaton Batmans were fantastic for big budget films.  The goofiness inherent in the concept was held onto while still allowing some darkness to creep in.  Him in his girlfriend's apartment trying to psych himself up to tell her he's Batman.  Nicholson's, "Never rub another man's rhubarb" line delivered so flatly.  Hell, any Nicholson line the whole film.  "This town needs an enema!"

The second one wasn't quite as magic, but still lots of fun to be had.  We'll likely never see DC try to recapture that magic.  They're much more interested in grimdark for grimdark sake.

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Just now, Dragons Are Real said:

Yeah, I was trying to agree with you.  Guess it didn't come off right.

The Keaton Batmans were fantastic for big budget films.  The goofiness inherent in the concept was held onto while still allowing some darkness to creep in.  Him in his girlfriend's apartment trying to psych himself up to tell her he's Batman.  Nicholson's, "Never rub another man's rhubarb" line delivered so flatly.  Hell, any Nicholson line the whole film.  "This town needs an enema!"

The second one wasn't quite as magic, but still lots of fun to be had.  We'll likely never see DC try to recapture that magic.  They're much more interested in grimdark for grimdark sake.

Oh, my bad. The recoil from thinking you thought I thought there was something bad to be said of West!Bat was immediate.

And yeah, for all Ledger!Joker was amazing in a please let me never be even five thousand km from someone like that? (The 'I'm going to make this pencil disappear' gave me the worst episode of scared/horrified giggles) My vote still goes for Nicholson. 

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On 6/3/2019 at 11:14 AM, CrypticWeirwood said:

Only if his bottom half was a dragon. :)

More seriously, it's pretty obvious that Martin was riffing off another F&SF work for Bran, but it wasn't Leto II whom he'd become.

A much better fit is Bran being like Severian towards the end of Gene Wolfe’s Citadel of the Autarch after he'd suddenly and super-surprisingly become Autarch (ruler of everything) out of the blue because he'd "ingested" the living memories of all the rulers who came before him.

I love that F&SF authors bounce ideas off each other, developing them in their own individual ways. It’s a smorgasbord out there, with scads of variety. Improves the genre. Thanks for the Gene Wolfe tip; he’s not a writer I’ve sampled much of, unless it’s anthologized short fiction. Will get into it as soon as my current Dragonriders of Pern obsession has run its course. :)

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I've watched the Last Watch (or whatever that's called) last night, and I have to say I was thoroughly unimpressed. :dunno:

 

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24 minutes ago, Gendelsdottir said:

I love that F&SF authors bounce ideas off each other, developing them in their own individual ways. It’s a smorgasbord out there, with scads of variety. Improves the genre. Thanks for the Gene Wolfe tip; he’s not a writer I’ve sampled much of, unless it’s anthologized short fiction. Will get into it as soon as my current Dragonriders of Pern obsession has run its course. :)

The first book in the set is Shadow of the Torturer.  He wrote all 4 of them at once before the first was published, so they make sense as a coherent whole. All told it's still under a thousand pages, so each book is short and well worth the effort. But it does make much more sense on a reread because it's full of clues you don't notice at first. 

 You can get them a pair at a time in print. 

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On 6/3/2019 at 10:00 PM, divica said:

But in that scenario I see jon beeing regent between 10 to 15 years until he decides to exile himself somewhere… He wouldn t abandon his (?) child to be raised by other people. Nor would he leave the realms without trying to make them a better place for the child.

I think grrm has expanded the targ story so much with FaB, dunk and egg and even in asoiaf to let it end in a big tragedy without any future descendents. Even if that was his original plan...

The HBO official synopsis says he is still at the NW and he is just guiding the free folk home. 

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