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[Spoilers] Episode 806 Discussion

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1 hour ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I just remembered. Sweetrobin is still ruling the Vale.

Honestly Sweetrobin surviving and thriving would be a pretty subversive move by GRRM. He seems guaranteed to die at this point.

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1 hour ago, Aderyn said:

Bran becoming the king like
Tyrion: so let’s make Bran the king
Everyone:
Bran:
Tyrion: you don’t really wanna be king and your man parts don’t work so you’re perfect for the job
Bran: yeah well duhh that’s what I came here for obv glad you finally caught up

I quite liked how none of the other lords had a problem with the Starks and sworn Stark bannermen or allies having 6-7 of the ~12 votes on the lords' council. Politics hasn't mattered at all on this show ever since they overran the books, it seems. This council could (and would) have been an entire episode, if not a full season arc, in the early seasons. 

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4 hours ago, Johan Wehtje said:

Historically elective Kingships with the franchise restricted to high nobles were pretty disastrous. In general they resulted in sutuations where the nobility ran roughshod over the commoners and weak states. The Holy Roman Empire, Poland and Hungary are all examples.

Danys policies in Slavers Bay were more likely to result in something workable. Democracy but with a circuit breaker. 

 

I think one of the great benefits of monarchy by inheritance is a neat and clear succession (most of the time). You don't want the Realm descending into chaos whenever a ruler dies, or tons of plotting whenever a ruler falls ill. This is why the English were so stressed that Elizabeth I refused to name a successor- they knew there could be chaos when she died. 

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10 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

We prove that even though Dany went too far in The Bells episode, she did not go mad.  She still was working towards her goal of breaking the wheel, and she didn't intend to stop until the whole world was free.  But she is killed before she could because Tyrion, in an attempt to save his own skin, convinces Jon that he needs to kill her lest she execute Sansa and Arya.  I think that how Drogon responds to her death proves that she was a good person.  Did he give in to his rage over her death and kill Jon?  No, he mourned the death of his mother and then tried to fulfill his mother's wish for a better world by breaking the wheel in the best way a dragon can.  Afterwards he peacefully flew off with his mother to bring her to a better place.  If such gentleness could be displayed in a creature of fire incarnate, you have to praise his mom for her good influence.

Here's the thing. She talked about breaking the wheel, but she was infernally convinced that her way was the only way, that people don't know that they want freedom. And worst of all, they wouldn't get a choice. She was speaking like a true tyrant. She was going to make war on her own people, from Winterfell to Dorne, and no doubt they'd all suffer the same fate as King's Landing. And when she was done with Westeros, she wanted the whole world. 

Tyrion summed up everyone's increasing tolerance for her brutality nicely. That is how tyrants gain power. 

Jon was right to kill her. It was the only way to stop her. 

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1 minute ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Sweetrobin is arguably the most eligible bachelor in the realm. 

Maybe a wife in name but he and Nameless Prince of Dorne are in love. 

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4 minutes ago, fairwarging said:

I think one of the great benefits of monarchy by inheritance is a neat and clear succession (most of the time). You don't want the Realm descending into chaos whenever a ruler dies, or tons of plotting whenever a ruler falls ill. This is why the English were so stressed that Elizabeth I refused to name a successor- they knew there could be chaos when she died. 

Elizabeth I wasn't the problem, at least until Mary Queen of Scots was out the way.

A better example is Henry I. As one historian puts it, "waiting for Henry I to die must have been like waiting for the Bomb."

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Posted (edited)

" I'm not Brandon Stark anymore, I don't want to be Lord of Winterfell"

 

" King of the 6? Yeh fuck it why not"

Edited by Higgins86

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3 hours ago, Lady Valicious said:

As far as we know no one can warg into a dragon. You can only warg in lower intelligence beings and dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent. When the North was conquered no one could do it or the outcome might have been different. 

He is the 3 eye raven and even before becoming that powerful he is already able to warg into a person. What other reason would he have to state at they end that he would find drogon?

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Posted (edited)

The ending was beautifully done. Very bitter sweet but that was expected.
Drogon burning the Iron Throne was so poetic and such a powerful scene.

Jon deserved more though, I know it would've been too obvious but he deserved the throne, after all A song of Ice and Fire figuratively translates to him, and it was all about him in the ending scene too. The reveal of him being R+L = J was so powerful, him being the rightful heir to the throne. I know he didn't want it but Bran becoming the king, just kinda felt.. random tbh. Why build Jon up all these seasons to not let him have the title he deserves.. and embodies? Being a good king for the people. I feel like it was really a sad ending for him, he made the world a better place in so many ways yet gets banished in the end...

but most importantly, he got reunited with Ghost and gave the wolf the love he deserved and. 

I choose to believe Dany got morphed into/with Drogon's soul. Her vision came true in the end, she never sat on the throne and joined Drogo and her unborn baby in death.
I still think there should have been a post credit ending scene with Bran warging crows, flying over an unknown land, bumping into Drogon breeding on three dragon eggs. That would've been an iconic and perfect ending. But I enjoyed it nonetheless. It was a very satisfying end after a troublesome season. 

And finally after all the shit this family has gone through, the Starks finally win the Game of Thrones...

It's just beyond my believe that show has ended.. I loved it so much. It'll forever be my favorite. Valar Morghulis.

Edited by EProduc

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4 hours ago, nara said:

 

I think the fact that those other killings were not a problem for Tyrion and us was exactly the point. Killing the slaver and reneging on the bargain was dishonorable but we didn’t care because he was a slaver. Same with the masters who were crucified—they were just awful. It reminds me of the “first they came for...” posts that you see all the time. 

 

The slavers that she liberated the unsullied from, kidnapped, gelded and terrorized children, mentally and physically for years and probably deserved worse than what they got.   The people that Dany crucified were also child murderers.

This show treated Daenarys's fall with less sympathy empathy than it did Stannis and Melisandre's murder of Shireen. 

They made sure to give Daenarys no possible justification or ambiguity, just blood lust, and megalomania and madness.  Then try to justify it by saying, "Look she was always like this."        

BS.  Dany could be ruthless but she was never evil.  No more than Arya.  Her arc was very similar to Arya.  "Evil people deserve what they get and I cannot be bothered about the letter of the law.  I have toe power to do something and I am going to do it." 

Good people can do horrible things when faced with hard choices.  Dresden or the A-Bomb.  Let Daeny go buck wild total war, but don't make her do it after Hitler is dead and after the Japanse have surrendered to MacArthur.  I am sorry, that turned it into crap. I could accept that Aegon the Queenslayer/Kinslayer felt he had to stop what the Khaleesi might do next, but turning her into Darth Dany was BS.  

Re-writing history to make the Breaker-Of-Chains arc evil, and foreshadowing madness, is sick.      

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14 minutes ago, TheTuninator said:

Heck, Stannis and Melisandre nothing! This show treated Dany's fall with less empathy than it did Cersei last episode. 

And that's problem.

Cersei got a nice cute little indirect eulogy from BRIENNE in Jaime's book. Whereas no one even acknowledges Daenerys for all the good she has done; no one ever thanks her for helping and saving them....

What the actual phuq

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Posted (edited)

I feel kind of discombobulated, so I'll just do some point form...

- I was quite confused by the NW thing.  Why in the world would there still be a NW?  I'm really shocked that Grey Worm actually let Jon go and didn't kill him immediately.  So I guess Jon filled everyone in on what happened, since they knew he had stuck a knife in her heart?  LOL.  Classic Jon!  I was happy to see him reunited with Ghost.  So he is just going to go roam the North now?  Is there anyone left at Castle Black, or is just abandoned now?  So many questions! 

- I was pretty surprised by how overwhelmingly "go Stark's!" the ending was.  I know we began the show with them and that they have kind of been the focus and heroes, but it was less subtle than I anticipated! 

- I wonder what Drogon did with Daenerys?  

- I found a few scenes to be surprisingly dull.  Such as the "trial" scene where they chose Bran as king.  

- and other scenes I found a bit cheesy.  Even though I'll admit, I did feel a bit emotional seeing the whole Stark family separating and going their own way, I did find the way everything felt so...tied up with a bow, to be slightly cheesy.  I guess its just the result of things being so rushed this season.

- pets for Ghost!  Huzzah! 

- I want to talk about Daenerys.  I haven't been much of a fan of hers for a few years now.  I did think she was pretty cruel.  I often got the feeling "are we really supposed to be cheering her on as she destroys this or that person, just because they were bad men?  Does that make it right?"  There was always the worry of:  what if she decides a group of people are evil...but they really aren't?  And that's exactly what happened.

Anyway, all that said, I found her ending actually really depressing.  So much time spent on her, watching her evolve and grow.  She came so far.  From a beautiful girl with no power whatsoever, to the most powerful person in the world, basically.  Everything she thought she wanted, was in her grasp.  The IT was so close.  But in the end, she lost everything.  The home she had always wanted, was actually lost long ago, the little family that couldn't be, in that tent she saw in the House of the Undying.  Drogo and Rhaego.  

I went back and rewatched that HotU scene and it broke my heart all over again.  I haven't liked Daenerys for awhile...but I certainly felt compassion for how lost she was in this episode (and since she came to Westeros).  This sounds silly, but I hope she found her way back to that tent, in the end.  Home at last.  No distant sounds of dragons calling her on, no need for the IT anymore...just family, acceptance and love.  

The point of all that is to say:  in the end, I felt much more sorry for her than I thought I would. 

Edited by Red Dragon10

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2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

And that's problem.

Cersei got a nice cute little indirect eulogy from BRIENNE in Jaime's book. Whereas no one even acknowledges Daenerys for all the good she has done; no one ever thanks her for helping and saving them....

What the actual phuq

That's the final insult.  Daenerys did a great deal wrong, but she did save the world and she smashed the slave trade - but still died in disgrace.  Sam Tarly will never write her up as anything other than a complete monster. 

 

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8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

That's the final insult.  Daenerys did a great deal wrong, but she did save the world and she smashed the slave trade - but still died in disgrace.  Sam Tarly will never write her up as anything other than a complete monster. 

 

Well, we can hope that Jon might have something to say about that, at least. 

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Yeah Dany's end was very depressing. From a young girl being sold to the Dothraki, getting three dragons, going through the red waste, freeing all the slaves and facing so much other difficulties to being betrayed all over the place and done dirty while she saved basically all of Westeros at the battle of Winterfell. Hadn't she brought her dragons the Night King would've been on the throne now (I mean without her dragon the NK wouldn't have got through the wall, but he would've found another way). Yet Sansa and many other didn't give her any appreciation. And then in the end she gets killed by her own lover that she trusted (which was understandable and necessary cause she would've become a tyrant but still..) and will forever be remembered as a mad queen that burned a whole city, while she did so many good things. 

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2 hours ago, HouseLark said:

If this is how the books end then I'll be happy. This season has felt very fast-paced but the ending was satisfying for me. It changed my idea of what the story was about. Now that it's over - and assuming it will end this way in the books as well - I think GRRM has written ASOIAF as the final chapter in the history of the Targaryen dynasty. The house that was fated to produce the saviors of humanity but would always be too unstable and unpredictable to build a peaceful regime. When read along with GRRMs short stories and histories of Westeros, the whole saga of the rise, fall, rebirth, and ultimate end of the house of Targaryen is a tragic fantasy epic. You can see why he has put so much effort into these ancillary works like Fire and Blood since they tell an essential part of the story of ASOIAF, they aren't just fun background reading.

Yes to this! The other books reveal details like the fact that Dany isn't the first Targaryen to give birth to a deformed dragon baby... makes you read the whole episode with Mirri Maz Duur way back in the beginning differently.

On another note, anyone else think there is a double meaning behind Bran the "Broken"? Obviously he gets that name because he can't walk, but also, he's kind of broken, as in an rpg character being overpowered.

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I thought it was a poor ending in all honesty, potentially to do with the lack of air time and opportunity to explain. It was certainly rushed, and it played out that way. 

The Bran story is a feeble one at best, mainly because we don’t currently have any context surrounding his election, other than a few I’s....and despite what many say, I feel Dany and Jon have both been played like a fiddle... the first time Dany decides to abandoned the advice of her self obsessed advisors, she gets shafted, not condoning what she did at KL, but we’re back to square one all the same, only difference is that potentially no one will betray Bran, because he will just see it coming, and the north is independent of course....

I also think there’s been a waste of characters, certain plots have been built up, and seemingly fizzle out to nothing, but again episode numbers dictated that. 

All in all it’s left me feeling empty, I’m not happy with Bran being on the throne, and it makes me think that Bran played this all along, he knew full well Jon wouldn’t want the throne, and he probably revealed his “true” identity in order to cause an inevitable relationship breakdown between he and Dany. It seems very much like a fuck it and find out ending, almost like they scripted it with their eyes closed grimacing as they did.

I can only hope GRRM book adds more context to that, because if that is truly how his tale ends, then it’s gone from an epic to a wet fart. 

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13 hours ago, Hodor&Bran said:

I absolutely loved the ending.  All you negative nellies.  Why can't you enjoy just once THE BEST ACTED TV SERIES OF FANTASY WE'VE EVER HAD!!!!!!  YOU don't like it???  Why watch then?  Write your own damn books and produce your own fantasy tv series!!!!  Every week you come on here and rip apart and trash the show.  I don't get it.  And yes I have actually read everything GRRM has written.  From Dying of the Light to now I've totally been a GRRM fangirl for 30+ years.  GRRM gave the writers of Game of Thrones the right to do what they wanted with his blessing.  Deal with it.  This was as far as I'm concerned the best fantasy series I have ever seen on television.  There is no equal.   Peter Dinklage deserves another Emmy.  

I'm out of "likes" for today, but I love this!!!!!  Thank you!!!!

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