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[Spoilers] Episode 806 Discussion

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29 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I was just thinking about how a few very minor changes to the series penultimate and finale episodes would've left fans far more satisfied. What if Yara Greyjoy had been involved in the attack at kingslanding, it would've mitigated the deus ex machina element of Daenerys attacking the ships without getting hit, well to some extent. If Jaime had led Cersei into a Dead end under the red keep with Dothraki closing in realizing that they would most likely rape and kill Cersei Jaime mercy kills her by strangulation before dying of his wounds. I would remove the line where Jaime says he never cared for the innocent and also that line from Euron "I'm the man that killed Jaime Lannister" If Yara were to witness Jon killing Daenerys from a distance and arrest him after Drogon flew away with Daenerys it would make far more sense in terms of why Jon wasn't killed. If Jon is brought before the council of Westerosi lords instead of Tyrion. If at this point Bran tells Jon that the NightKing will come back that it's an unbreakable spell. Jon names Bran as his heir and abdicates the throne to him. Bran in turn could name Sansa as Wardeness of the North. Jon decides of his own volition that his place is in the Nights watch.

Here's the thing. There's tons of things they could've done differently to make the show better with only slightly more time or effort. The fact that they didn't is part of the reason fans are so pissed off. 

The writing was lazy, sloppy and rushed. 

It's shameful. It's painful. 

It's unforgivable in my opinion. Fans care more about their show than they did. 

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I’m shocked by the fan turnaround on this show.  I mean, why now?  What made season 8 (hate) so bad compared to prior seasons?

If you go on rotten apples, each season from 1-7 ranges between a score of 91 thru 97.  Season Eight currently has a 58.  This implies a precipitous drop in quality - SPECIFICALLY within the last season - while all other seasons were supposedly great.  Only... it wasn’t a precipitous drop.  The show has been awful for years.  Yet the majority of people didn’t complain then.

So...why are they unreasonably complaining now?  Season 7 was equally, if not worse than 8, yet S7 currently has a 93 score.

WHERE THE HELL WERE THESE COMPLAINERS BEFORE?  Maybe a few deserved complaints to the show runners from prior seasons would have been more productive than a silly petition now.

To all the bandwagon complainers of this last season - shut up.  Too little too late. You should have noticed the stooooopid before.

  

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18 minutes ago, Table8 said:

To all the bandwagon complainers of this last season - shut up.  Too little too late. You should have noticed the stooooopid before.

Speaking just for myself I think the reasons are several. 

This season was worse than any previous. 

As long as the show isn't finished there's hope that it will improve and a great ending could've made up for the poor prior seasons. 

But no, in the end it left much unexplained. It Deus ex machina'd itself to a lightning fast conclusion and an unsatisfying one whilst destroying character arcs Willy nilly along the way. 

So as an analogy it's like seasons 5-7 were having bad sex. Even bad sex can be a little bit good. And before season 8 there's still a chance a great ending makes up for prior poor performance. 

But in the end it was just rushed, ended abruptly and without any satisfaction whatsoever. 

And it can never be redeemed. 

I'm personally shocked anyone at all defends this show now. 

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28 minutes ago, Table8 said:

WHERE THE HELL WERE THESE COMPLAINERS BEFORE?

A lot of people were complaining before. But more people watch the show now. So more people to complain. 

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9 hours ago, Table8 said:

The show has been awful for years.  Yet the majority of people didn’t complain then.

So...why are they unreasonably complaining now? 

I ride on no one's bandwagon. There were things in Season 7 I found sketchy, like that bullshit manufactured tension with Arya & Sansa over Littlefinger. I read the books during the hiatus between Seasons 7 and 8, then did a bit of contrast & compare. And realized that with only 6 episodes to go, there was no way the remainder of the story could be adequately addressed.

It was like picking up a secondhand copy of Pandora's Star, reading & reading & reading & bloody reading, pinching the last 50-or-so pages between my fingers and thinking, "No way dude can finish up all the plot threads in this one volume. There has to be another big book." But imagine if Peter Hamilton had done just that - crammed all the remaining story into the last 50-odd pages. That was Season 8 in a nutshell.

People were going to be disappointed for a variety of reasons - their character got shafted, plotlines they were enjoying got dropped, whatever - but they gave the show the benefit of the doubt until all possible doubt was gone.

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21 hours ago, Astrotherapist said:

This is pretty funny:

 

Thank you for posting this. Thanks to everyone who has posted memes and YouTube rants. It's been very cathartic and helpful getting over my WTF!!!!! GOT PTSD.   I had to pause it twice to let my psychotic giggling die down so I could hear the video. 

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26 minutes ago, CCRArabians said:

Thank you for posting this. Thanks to everyone who has posted memes and YouTube rants. It's been very cathartic and helpful getting over my WTF!!!!! GOT PTSD.   I had to pause it twice to let my psychotic giggling die down so I could hear the video. 

So first I nagged at my family, then I somehow ended up on Maisie Williams' twitter account and found the cornucopia of GoT memes.

It was therapeutical.

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15 hours ago, GameofThrones Fan 1994 said:
  Hide contents

If the books generally end the same way do you think book fans will be disappointed?

 

Everything depends on HOW the characters get to the end-point. This is where books differ from TV/movies.

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I don't think any of the actors actually believe in Danys ending. Like they are trying to save face but they know it's garbage. Most of the people I know enjoyed watching Cersei and the Lannisters be decimated - it wasn't something they were horrified at. The hamfisted attempt to make the Dany=Hitler=Bad connection nobody believes and pretty much everyone finds Jon stabbing her during the kiss completely revolting. 

After the history that has been built up, kings landing just doesn't get much or any sympathy(nor should it). What ever D&D was trying to pull, they failed at it for most of the people I know.       

The only way this could have been received without outrage is if Dany was about to launch an attack on the North(which we didn't get other than speech which hinted at the possibility and no time-table) and Jon can't talk her out of it, even the whole assassin stunt he does still doesn't work.  

Edited by Techmaester

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3 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I guess now we finally know why Jon was resurrected. 

Do we? I would think the Lord of Light would prefer Dany than Bran.

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4 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I guess now we finally know why Jon was resurrected. 

We know nothing, re Jon Snow  :spank:

 

Having thought it through since the series ended, I'm fairly confident what happened was this:

4 years ago GRRM told D&D the basics of the endgame. We just saw it. Unfortunately, owing to a critical lack of writing talent, D&D couldn't show us HOW the plot builds up to the climax and how the characters get there in any convincing way. So we don't really know the whys and wherefores of anything in tWOW and aDoS. D&D lucked out in guessing R+L=J but not why or how that's in any way relevant to the story. The knew the Others get defeated up North, Cercei dies in the rubble of KL and Dany gets to touch the IR before being killed by Jon due to her megalomania. And the tree becomes king because he's got stories. And that's about it. Filling in the rather extensive gaps will be a pleasurable experience when we finally get our mitts on the books.

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4 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

We know nothing, re Jon Snow  :spank:

 

Having thought it through since the series ended, I'm fairly confident what happened was this:

4 years ago GRRM told D&D the basics of the endgame. We just saw it. Unfortunately, owing to a critical lack of writing talent, D&D couldn't show us HOW the plot builds up to the climax and how the characters get there in any convincing way. So we don't really know the whys and wherefores of anything in tWOW and aDoS. D&D lucked out in guessing R+L=J but not why or how that's in any way relevant to the story. The knew the Others get defeated up North, Cercei dies in the rubble of KL and Dany gets to touch the IR before being killed by Jon due to her megalomania. And the tree becomes king because he's got stories. And that's about it. Filling in the rather extensive gaps will be a pleasurable experience when we finally get our mitts on the books.

Not a direct quote, but someone on the forum stated one of the D's was involved in Troy?

Same situation, the plotpoints are there, at least some of them, but the rest of it?

Well, Helen and Paris shacked up, there was a war, a wooden horse, Troy fell, Brad Pitt in a skirt was shot in the ankle?

Thumbs up.

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They could have combined the Alys Karstark plot to the Ramsay plot and had a compelling story of Karstarks getting pissy, and Ramsay's misdeeds coming home to roost. But they wanted to script Sophie Turner getting raped and jack off to it and Sophie wanted to be a big girl

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Does the ending mean that Iron Born will get to raid the North for the foreseeable future as Yara's promise to Dany could now be null after her death, and the North is independent and not under the King's peace? I doubt Bran could protect his sister even if he wanted considering his nonexistent armies.

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2 hours ago, Br16 said:

Does the ending mean that Iron Born will get to raid the North for the foreseeable future as Yara's promise to Dany could now be null after her death, and the North is independent and not under the King's peace? I doubt Bran could protect his sister even if he wanted considering his nonexistent armies.

In theory yes. This is part of the mess that D&D left us with. I'm sure the intention is that Yara civilizes the IB, persuading them to end their raiding and reaving ways and settle down to be nice fishermen. But with Yara's non-existent relationship with Sansa (as it was her bloody brother that razed Winterfell, you'd think an apology would be warranted), her last words being a fierce rejection of the consensus together with a dismissive snarl, it's not the impression we were left with.

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2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

In theory yes. This is part of the mess that D&D left us with. I'm sure the intention is that Yara civilizes the IB, persuading them to end their raiding and reaving ways and settle down to be nice fishermen. But with Yara's non-existent relationship with Sansa (as it was her bloody brother that razed Winterfell, you'd think an apology would be warranted), her last words being a fierce rejection of the consensus together with a dismissive snarl, it's not the impression we were left with.

Thanks for your reply! You bring up a great point on the ending mess D&D left us with.  Also what are your thoughts regarding Bronn's military strength? All I can figure out is that he probably commands the Lannister Garrison left behind at High Garden when they took it (assuming Daenerys didn't rectify that after the Gold Road battle). Don't think he could hire any more as the Tyrell life savings went to the Iron Bank/GC and the harvest  burned by dragon fire. Considering that he was part of the force sent by Jaime to requisition the harvest, I bet all the smallfolk farmers and Highgarden gentry hate him.

Thus, how is Bronn going to assert his authority against the prestigious Redwyns and Hightowers? I read elsewhere on this forum that Hightower army could be 10-15K and Redwyne fleet is 200 ships. Plus, since he was part of the force that killed Olenna Redwyne, I could see some discontent there. I feel unless Sam is willing to persuade whoever rules Horn Hill now to lend him the remains of the Tarly army, he's finished.

Frankly, no matter how much Bronn goes about being a "hard bastard", I just don't see him as Lord Paramount. Realistically, he needs Tyrion's patronage and protection, and anything other than a holdfast sworn to Casterly rock, a lannister cousin wife and elevation to vassal Lord would be out of his practical reach.

I feel that D&D should have cleared this up since The Reach is the one region that matters the most now that the Lannister mines are dry. 

 

Edited by Br16

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