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[Poll] How would you rate episode 806?

How would you rate episode 806?  

503 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      147
    • 2
      52
    • 3
      38
    • 4
      35
    • 5
      40
    • 6
      23
    • 7
      53
    • 8
      48
    • 9
      32
    • 10
      35


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Posted (edited)

5. The actors and the technical professionals did a great job.  The story, that is a different matter.  If I understand the decisions of the ?council? the Starks rule everything.  Sansa rules the North, Jon will rule the far north free folk, Mance 2.0, and Bran rules everything else. And the council sat there and said ok. 

If this is the finale, then why do I still have questions:

1. The death symbol with Ned Umber - what does that mean?


2. The CoTF symbols in the cave - what does that mean?


3. Wherever else we have seen that symbol (Battle of the Bastards, maybe), WHAT does it mean?


4. The direwolves - what is their importance to the story, and why warging?

 

5. What about Mel's azur ahai/Prince that was Promised?  What does that mean?

 

6. Who is Lightbringer?  (if not in the show, I apologize for this one)

 

7. I have no problem with Jon's ending, in fact I wanted it to happen, but NOT under disgrace.   The actions of Jon let the very council sit there and become.  He, and he alone, killed Dany, then wept with the dragon.  Why is he being punished, why did his brother and sisters allow that?

8. Why did Tyrion twist Jon's arm to kill Dany, then when Jon asks if he has done the right thing, Tyrion says ask me in 10 years.  WHA?

9. Why did Dany say she wanted to free all the men, women, and children from tyranny, after killing every man, woman, and child in Kings Landing?

10. When did Bran become a sarcastic smurker?  That's why I came?  What, he can see the future and put his family repeatedly at risk of death so he could be King?  Branbot wins the big game????

Edited by lakin1013
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I thought the first half of the episode was really, really good, up until and including Drogon burning the Iron Throne.

I've been predicting that Jon would kill Dany very much in this fashion, and was glad it played out like it did.  But in addition, I thought the scene was well done.  When the scene began and Jon and Dany started talking, I was thinking why is Jon continuing to be so weak.  But the reason is because at that time, he knew what needed to be done and was emotional because of it.  I found it more powerful the second time watching it knowing what would happen, and reading into Jon's emotions.

I also really enjoyed the scene right before, the Tyrion and Jon scene where Tyrion had to convince Jon of what needed to be done. 

But the second half was... disappointing.

The main thing that I keep coming back to in my mind as to why it is so disappointing is that: Bran is not a king.  He doesn't inspire love.  He doesn't inspire fear.  He doesn't inspire... well anything really.  He would have made a great Master of Whispers as he knows all, but he is not a leader.

I also couldn't fully grasp why Jon was being punished.  He just saved the Kingdoms from a tyrant.  And it appears that the Unsullied left for Naath anyway, so they wouldn't need to appease them by punishing Jon and sending him North.  Didn't make sense to me.

I guess in the end, I really felt that Jon had earned the title of king and should've been nominated by the council because of it.  At the end of the day, he saved the Kingdoms from Ice and Fire.  He convinced Dany to fight for the North to save the Kingdoms from Ice.  He personally killed Dany and saved the Kingdoms from Fire. 

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30 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Actually, its not that bad.   It is fairly good.  People are rating it based on how they view the rest of season 8.  Which is a bit unfair.  But it is what it is.

I agree - and I rated episodes 3 & 4 a 1/10 because their story telling and lack of any king of coherent sense just made them shit. But this episode I gave a 9/10. I had read the Bran thing and was dreading it - but it played far better than I thought it would.

This season has been so up and down.

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31 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

The reaction to Sam's proposal for universal suffrage are about what I'd expect from aristocratic families in a feudal society.

Yes, probably. But it was completly lame to make Sam come up with this enlightened idea (intended by D&D as a cool wink at the 21th century viewer) and the acting was so predictable and off.

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3 hours ago, legba11 said:

The council of the dragon pit was one of the dumbest scenes in show history.  This was the 10 minute version of Bad Pussy.  Why were Sam (he was not representing The Reach, he went back to citadel), Brienne (a non-landed knight, veteran of ONE battle), Arya and three unknown men there?  Literally unknown.  CC had them as Man1, Man2, and Man3.  Grey Worm speaks for the Dothraki too???  AND THEN DOESN'T GET A SAY.  People of color, get in your corner!  Having the largest remaining army means nothing. Bronn is too busy fliming John Wick 3 I guess.

Sam is Grand Maester.  Got it.  Takes weeks.  As does writing and binding the book!  That was clearly the first meeting of the small council.  They haven't begun to rebuild.

Arya is an explorer now.  When fan fiction has no idea how to end an arc...

Jon rejoins the Night's Watch and then immediately abandons his post again?

Religion is simply gone... 

As is Drogon.  Who apparently has never picked up anything was his claw before since he doesn't know how it's done.

 

The Dragon Pit Council seemed to me like the Imperial Diet of the Holy Roman Empire.  Sam represented the Maesters, What unknown man? The only "new character" was the Dornish guy. Concerning the Dothraki, i thought they all died at the Long Night Battle, so I don't even know why they are there. That being said, I don't think Grey Worm has a reason to be in Westeros. The Unsillied are Warriors, without war in Westeros there is no need for them there. 

Sam sits on the council, I assume they flashed forward a bit. Yeah the book binding was rushes, but since season 6 with Fast Travel Gendry and armies, time has been sped up. It was a nice touch in my opinion. 

Arya leaving represents her free spirit. She has always been this way. 

I think Bran was sending Jon to the "Nights Watch" meaning he was being exiled to join the wildlings he knew where at Castle Black. JOn couldn't stay around since people knew he was a Targaryean, otherwise there would still be people loyal to him. He didn't want the throne, and he knew staying around would only continue the war.

Cersei killed the High Septon and blew up the Main Cathedral and many of its septons/septas. Im sure religion is still around, but thats not the focus  at this point.

Eagles pick up stuff in there claws all the time, probably an inherent skill.

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Posted (edited)

Absolutely loved this final episode. I rated it 10/10. 

What a pity much of what had come before it was worse than rotten, and I rate a lot of it 1-3 out of 10.  Especially episode 3 with its appalling termination of the Night King plot and episode 4, with its numerous plot holes and logical implausibilities.

But I could tell that this was George RR Martin's ending to the series rather than D&D's. They merely executed his wishes. And they didn't "get there" particularly well but the there when reached was actually very good.  

Jon returns to the "real north" and becomes the new King-beyond-the-Wall of the Freefolk. That was where he always belonged, with his and Ygritte's people, the successor to Mance Rayder, side-by-side with his faithful pup Ghost. 

Sansa finally gains the independence of the North and becomes rightful Queen of a free kingdom, no longer under Southron dominance, as daughter of Ned and Catelyn Stark - and didn't she deserve it. After everything she and her family endured, she has more than vindicated the memory of her parents and ancestors. Her ancestor knelt to a Targaryen, whereas she bravely resisted the tyrant Queen and after her demise became the champion and leader of her people. That's my girl!!!!

Arya, the girl who never wanted to be a "lady" and who learned at the end to forgo the cycle of vengeance that had driven her after her family's slaughter, becomes the Christopher Columbus of Westeros - the adventurer-in-chief, complete with her own hardy crew. And she doesn't marry Gendry, which is GREAT because she don't need no man. G'day captain Arya.

Bran becoming King of the Six Kingdoms of Westeros (sans the Iron Throne) after an election by the nobility - I honestly thought, when I first reader the spoiler, that this was going to be absolute bollocks. Only it wasn't. In fact, it made perfect sense and fitted in with the overarching thematic agenda of the show and books, that no "divine right/born to rule" stock fantasy heroes like Aragorn (i.e. Dany or Jon Snow) win the throne but that a disabled boy, who would be a far better ruler because he actually has the requisite qualities and skills, is appointed to the role on the basis of merit rather than by inheritance. It's a great subversion of fantasy tropes, which typically exude an almost kind of "fascist" feel in supporting the claims of "destined" Chosen Ones. Real life isn't about "destiny" or assumed absolute right to rule, because there is no such thing. We make our own destinies. 

Very ASoIAF that surprising result. 

Dany, Dany, Dany....she ends exactly as I predicted and expected from the books: an idealistic, Robespierran anti-hero/villain with the best of intentions but the worst of methods and a grandiose self-righteous entitlement, messiah complex to go with her never-ending revolutionary world gospel of liberationist salvation through fire and blood. She could not have ended any other way and Jon did the underhand but ultimately noble, self-sacrificing act in saving millions of human beings in Westeros and around the world from her impending holocaust/final solution, by stabbing to death the woman he truly loved (the vulnerable girl at the beginning of the books and TV show, longing for her home with the red door) to take out the Dragon Queen dictator-in-the-making. It was beautifully acted by both Emilia and Kit. 

What a fantastic anti-hero/villain Daenerys was: it's extremely hard to depict a truly sympathetic villain and she is that ++++++.

A lot more to say, about other characters (such as Tyrion) and the episode more generally but that will do for now. 

I thought it a very fitting end to the series as a whole and an oddly good finish to the ropiest season of television ever. 

 

Edited by Krishtotter

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4 minutes ago, Krishtotter said:

Absolutely loved this final episode. I rated it 10/10. 

What a pity much of what had come before it was worse than rotten, and I rate a lot of it 1-3 out of 10.  Especially episode 3 with its appalling termination of the Night King plot and episode 4, with its numerous plot holes and logical implausibilities.

But I could tell that this was George RR Martin's ending to the series rather than D&D's. They merely executed his wishes. And they didn't "get there" particularly well but the there when reached was actually very good.  

 

...

 

Bran becoming King of the Six Kingdoms of Westeros (sans the Iron Throne) after an election by the nobility - I honestly thought, when I first reader the spoiler, that this was going to be absolute bollocks. Only it wasn't. In fact, it made perfect sense and fitted in with the overarching thematic agenda of the show and books, that no "divine right/born to rule" stock fantasy heroes like Aragorn (i.e. Dany or Jon Snow) win the throne but that a disabled boy, who would be a far better rule because he actually has the requisite qualities and skills, is appointed to the role on the basis of merit rather than by inheritance. It's a great subversion of fantasy tropes, which typically exude an almost kind of "fascist" feel in supporting the claims of "destined" Chosen Ones. 

Very ASoIAF that surprising result. 

 

 

I am not convinced Martin will have Bran be the one who sits on the throne, but the ending will be a council selecting the next king, and the person selected will not be the head of a major house.  

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

I am not convinced Martin will have Bran be the one who sits on the throne, but the ending will be a council selecting the next king, and the person selected will not be the head of a major house.  

Agreed, it may be that the showrunners selected Bran because a TV show needs a familiar face. Although, we won't know for sure for a while. 

But the "theme" will be the same, as I noted in my above post. Someone, whether Bran or other, will fulfil the same purpose with the same fantasy-subverting, anti-Aragorn elevation to the throne. 

It must happen, because GRRM is not a quasi-fascist "divine ruler/chosen hero" theorist as most fantasy authors (unfortunately) tend to be, if accidentally. 

The end ruler will not be a "conquering hero" with a claim by inheritance. 

Edited by Krishtotter

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1 minute ago, Krishtotter said:

Agreed, it may be that the showrunners selected Bran because a TV show needs a familiar face. Although, we won't know for sure for a while. 

But the "theme" will be the same, as I noted in my above post. Someone, whether Bran or other, will fulfil the same purpose with the same fantasy-subverting, anti-Aragorn elevation to the throne. 

On the other hand, once the North leaves the Kingdom, it makes some sense for a Northerner who will have no heir to be the one chosen, because it will force this to happen again.

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Posted (edited)

I voted an 8.

 

Up until Dany's death, the episode was amazing television. Some of the scenes were brilliant and the tense nature of it felt right.

After that, they were largely checking boxes and paying fan service.

The Lord's Council was wonky from attendance to outcome. Greyworm went from resolute and defiant to rolling over for no good reason. Sansa backs the north out of the 7 kingdoms and nobody cares?

Bronn getting what he wanted and becoming Master of Coin was awkward but they wanted a jokey jokey council scene, so there he was.

Arya going sailing seems random for her character.

Why is there a NW, really, and is Jon the commander or did he just pass through or what? He did change to black, so ... maybe in the watch but exploring north? But what's the night watch doing?

So many things about this episode and season would feel better and deserved and organic if they'd given themselves time. That's my lasting critique and my sadness. It's the largest unforced error in television history.

Edited by Ser Not Appearing

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Posted (edited)

1, because again there's no negative rating. If this is GRRM's ending as well, I'm sure someone will mention it to me. Someday.

Edited by Sand11751

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46 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

5. The actors and the technical professionals did a great job.  The story, that is a different matter.  If I understand the decisions of the ?council? the Starks rule everything.  Sansa rules the North, Jon will rule the far north free folk, Mance 2.0, and Bran rules everything else. And the council sat there and said ok. 

If this is the finale, then why do I still have questions:

1. The death symbol with Ned Umber - what does that mean?


2. The CoTF symbols in the cave - what does that mean?


3. Wherever else we have seen that symbol (Battle of the Bastards, maybe), WHAT does it mean?


4. The direwolves - what is their importance to the story, and why warging?

 

5. What about Mel's azur ahai/Prince that was Promised?  What does that mean?

 

6. Who is Lightbringer?  (if not in the show, I apologize for this one)

 

7. I have no problem with Jon's ending, in fact I wanted it to happen, but NOT under disgrace.   The actions of Jon let the very council sit there and become.  He, and he alone, killed Dany, then wept with the dragon.  Why is he being punished, why did his brother and sisters allow that?

8. Why did Tyrion twist Jon's arm to kill Dany, then when Jon asks if he has done the right thing, Tyrion says ask me in 10 years.  WHA?

9. Why did Dany say she wanted to free all the men, women, and children from tyranny, after killing every man, woman, and child in Kings Landing?

10. When did Bran become a sarcastic smurker?  That's why I came?  What, he can see the future and put his family repeatedly at risk of death so he could be King?  Branbot wins the big game????

1. We see it a few other times with dead bodies in snow etc... I think its just like a "calling card" much like bee's use. Its just a way to lure the undead army to the location. (probably some sort of magic). Thats the deal with magic in GoT its supposed to be vague and unfamiliar. We dont know how it works. 

2. The markings just show us that the children were there. They likely found out about the Dragonstone killing the WHite Walkers/Wights and left stories of its power to be passed down. Both in writing the cave and verbally to pass on through time. 

3. Early on in the show we see a symbol of dead bodies (not the same symbol) north of the wall. We see the same spiral symbol later in the snow made from dead horses.  We see it on the wall and it burst into flames. We see them in the caves with the markings of the CoFM. Its possible the Night King took it from the CotFM and uses it for his own evil purpose. Its left vague on purpose I feel. We aren't meant to know everything. It adds mystery around the CotFM and the Night King so we only know as much as the characters facing that threat (Jon and alliese, etc...)

4. Dire wolves were an analogy early on. Ghost is Bastard Exile albino wolf (JOn is bastard exile in the end). Nymeria is freed in book 2 or 3? when Arya scares her off. She is free spirit, much like Arya. Lady is killed, much like Sansa "Ladylike demeanor/tenancies" as she wakes up to the real world and realizes its not sunshine and rainbows.  Brans is summer, represents warmth/good.  Since he is king in the south now, away from the Winter lands of the north. Shaggydog not sure on as RIckon which such a small character in the show. 

5. Jon, the Darkness is Dany. He was literally resurrected and reborn. He ends the Night King, and the Darkness that is Dany Tyrannical downfall.

6. Jon, (possibly Arya literally as she kill the Night King). But Jon is Lightbringer in that he united the forces of man Against the Night King and its darkness. 

7. Jon is accepting his fate. He doesn't want the iron throne, never has. If he stays in westeros there is the chance people will support him as true king since he is a Targaryean. He accepts his "exile" to the "Nights Watch" (non existent) knowing that it has no purpose now. Bran is sending him to be a Free Folk with Tormund, free from obligation to the realm, free of his blood line. Free Folk look at ones deeds, not blood. 

8. Because Tyrion was in jail and couldn't kill her. Tyrion knew Dany loved Jon and he was the only one that could get close to Dany and kill her (especailly with Drogon as a body guard). Dany didn't trust anyone else alive,except Grey Worm, who sure as hell wasn't going to kill her.  It had to be Jon since he was the only one who could actually have a chance to succeed. 

9. Because she was MAD! "When a Targaryean is born the gods flip a coin." 50/50 mad and good. Dany is the Mad, Jon is the Good.

10. Bran sees everything all at once. Past and present and future. Its very much like a Doctor Strange in Avengers. I don't think he put his family at risk as you put it, as he really couldn't control them. He didnt get the powers unitl after he fell from the tower and woke up. By that point Ned, his sisters and brothers had already left winterfell. Its not like he could say, wait guys I saw all this shit go down in my dreams, come back so you don't die. It came to him in pieces, and not until he went and spoke with the Tree North of the wall when Hodor Met his end did it come to fill fruition. I think that is the point in time when he knew how things would play out. And he played them out in such a way that none of his remaining alive Starks died. 

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2/10 fuck me that was LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Couple eps ago - "We couldn't afford the excessive CGI of having Jon pet Ghost"

Last night they apparently retconned/shoehorned it into the very end - like it wasn;t too expensive anymore?  Get fucked.

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6 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

Last night they apparently retconned/shoehorned it into the very end - like it wasn;t too expensive anymore?  Get fucked.

Yea, I thought that too - obviously they were lying to try and keep the ghost reunion a secret. They have had a terrible run with leaks.

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34 minutes ago, Dynas said:

1. We see it a few other times with dead bodies in snow etc... I think its just like a "calling card" much like bee's use. Its just a way to lure the undead army to the location. (probably some sort of magic). Thats the deal with magic in GoT its supposed to be vague and unfamiliar. We dont know how it works. 

2. The markings just show us that the children were there. They likely found out about the Dragonstone killing the WHite Walkers/Wights and left stories of its power to be passed down. Both in writing the cave and verbally to pass on through time. 

3. Early on in the show we see a symbol of dead bodies (not the same symbol) north of the wall. We see the same spiral symbol later in the snow made from dead horses.  We see it on the wall and it burst into flames. We see them in the caves with the markings of the CoFM. Its possible the Night King took it from the CotFM and uses it for his own evil purpose. Its left vague on purpose I feel. We aren't meant to know everything. It adds mystery around the CotFM and the Night King so we only know as much as the characters facing that threat (Jon and alliese, etc...)

4. Dire wolves were an analogy early on. Ghost is Bastard Exile albino wolf (JOn is bastard exile in the end). Nymeria is freed in book 2 or 3? when Arya scares her off. She is free spirit, much like Arya. Lady is killed, much like Sansa "Ladylike demeanor/tenancies" as she wakes up to the real world and realizes its not sunshine and rainbows.  Brans is summer, represents warmth/good.  Since he is king in the south now, away from the Winter lands of the north. Shaggydog not sure on as RIckon which such a small character in the show. 

5. Jon, the Darkness is Dany. He was literally resurrected and reborn. He ends the Night King, and the Darkness that is Dany Tyrannical downfall.

6. Jon, (possibly Arya literally as she kill the Night King). But Jon is Lightbringer in that he united the forces of man Against the Night King and its darkness. 

7. Jon is accepting his fate. He doesn't want the iron throne, never has. If he stays in westeros there is the chance people will support him as true king since he is a Targaryean. He accepts his "exile" to the "Nights Watch" (non existent) knowing that it has no purpose now. Bran is sending him to be a Free Folk with Tormund, free from obligation to the realm, free of his blood line. Free Folk look at ones deeds, not blood. 

8. Because Tyrion was in jail and couldn't kill her. Tyrion knew Dany loved Jon and he was the only one that could get close to Dany and kill her (especailly with Drogon as a body guard). Dany didn't trust anyone else alive,except Grey Worm, who sure as hell wasn't going to kill her.  It had to be Jon since he was the only one who could actually have a chance to succeed. 

9. Because she was MAD! "When a Targaryean is born the gods flip a coin." 50/50 mad and good. Dany is the Mad, Jon is the Good.

10. Bran sees everything all at once. Past and present and future. Its very much like a Doctor Strange in Avengers. I don't think he put his family at risk as you put it, as he really couldn't control them. He didnt get the powers unitl after he fell from the tower and woke up. By that point Ned, his sisters and brothers had already left winterfell. Its not like he could say, wait guys I saw all this shit go down in my dreams, come back so you don't die. It came to him in pieces, and not until he went and spoke with the Tree North of the wall when Hodor Met his end did it come to fill fruition. I think that is the point in time when he knew how things would play out. And he played them out in such a way that none of his remaining alive Starks died. 

Thank you!!  I love this....

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8 hours ago, Uffington Horse said:

Boring and nonsensical. First time I’ve rated an episode a 1. 

Thanks, care to elaborate? If that's too much trouble, you could give individual 1–10 ratings to these:

  • ____ Cinematography
  • ____ Lighting
  • ____ Visual effects, including CGI 
  • ____ Production design (unified visual appearance)
  • ____ Opening and closing title sequences
  • ____ Sound editing and mixing
  • ____ Original musical score
  • ____ Costume design
  • ____ Make up and hairstyling
  • ____ Writing 
  • ____ Directing
  • ____ Leading actor (Kit Harington)
  • ____ Leading actress (Emilia Clarke)
  • ____ Supporting actor (Peter Dinklage)
  • ____ Supporting actress (Sophie Turner)
  • ____ Ensemble cast (everybody as a team)

Those don't necessarily have to “average out” to your final rating.

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52 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

1, because again there's no negative rating. If this is GRRM's ending as well, I'm sure someone will mention it to me. Someday.

Which of these are you thinking was just a 1?

  • ____ Cinematography
  • ____ Lighting
  • ____ Visual effects, including CGI 
  • ____ Production design (unified visual appearance)
  • ____ Opening and closing title sequences
  • ____ Sound editing and mixing
  • ____ Original musical score
  • ____ Costume design
  • ____ Make up and hairstyling
  • ____ Writing 
  • ____ Directing
  • ____ Leading actor (Kit Harington)
  • ____ Leading actress (Emilia Clarke)
  • ____ Supporting actor (Peter Dinklage)
  • ____ Supporting actress (Sophie Turner)
  • ____ Ensemble cast (everybody as a team)
     

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1 hour ago, Krishtotter said:

But I could tell that this was George RR Martin's ending to the series rather than D&D's. They merely executed his wishes. And they didn't "get there" particularly well but the there when reached was actually very good.  

That it was George's ending not HBO's was my guess as well, but I can't say why I think that beyond simple hoping. What sorts of things made you think this was the George ending not the company one?

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Writing. 

And thats the issue. This series thrived because of the writing. How many fantasy/sci fi shows have their been i the past. Dozens, most of them fail because of the writing being tropeish/weak. We know there is a market for fantasy/sci fi, the issue is, writing it in such a way that viewers/ readers can feel invested in the story/characters, and are not just watch spectacle like big space battles of dragons.

GoT was more a historical drama in a make believe world than a Fantasy show IMO. 

When you have one of the best writers (IMO) in recent history for 5 seasons, then you have to go to D&D hollywood style writers with very little on their resume (other than GoT) it become very apparent that the writing is why is thrived.

If D&D simply tried to make a fantasy show about warring houses that had cool battles and dragons I doubt it would have made it past 2 seasons before being cancelled. 

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