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Best and worst TV series finales, and where does GoT rank? *Spoilers*

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6 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Quality is subjective, so of course my love for the finale isn’t proof that it’s good. It’s just my opinion. As for your second point, why would you love something you thought was terrible? That makes no sense.

Except that quality is definitely not subjective. What makes something good or bad may be a bit more open to interpretation in arts but it's certainly not down to "a matter of taste".

I would hazard a guess that you need to differentiate between fun and quality.

Polish mentioned guilty pleasures and I guess that's more than enough to prove the point.

For example, I quite liked the show Supernatural though it's beyond a shadow of doubt that only first few seasons are great and after that it goes downhill after that and drags on for way too long.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, baxus said:

Except that quality is definitely not subjective. What makes something good or bad may be a bit more open to interpretation in arts but it's certainly not down to "a matter of taste".

I would hazard a guess that you need to differentiate between fun and quality.

Polish mentioned guilty pleasures and I guess that's more than enough to prove the point.

For example, I quite liked the show Supernatural though it's beyond a shadow of doubt that only first few seasons are great and after that it goes downhill after that and drags on for way too long.

Yes, quality in art is definitely subjective, especially when its technical merits (acting, direction, cinemotography) are as high as Game of Thrones ). The only reason forums like this can exist is because people like debating and discussing books and TV shows and their quality. It is definitely possible to enjoy something you don't think is great; it's also possible you and I and others disagree about the quality of the finale. I don't think it was peak Game of Thrones or as good as The Wire, but clearly me and others in this thread don't agree with your assessment. And I can differentiate between guilty pleasures like, say, Aquaman, and things I genuinely enjoy and think are good, thank you.

Edited by Caligula_K3

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1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said:

And I can differentiate between guilty pleasures like, say, Aquaman



The writing in Aquaman was no more stupid than the writing of the final season of GoT.

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5 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Yes, quality in art is definitely subjective, especially when its technical merits (acting, direction, cinemotography) are as high as Game of Thrones ).

So, you're basically saying that there's no way to differentiate a good story from a bullshit story in a reasonably objective way? Would you say that, for example, Daenerys going all Mad King has been handled and presented well? And let's go a bit beyond the series finale... was that the episode where they fight Night King (we all know that watching an episode for an hour and seeing almost nothing is a prime example of high level of cinematography, right?) was a good one? There are many more examples of how poorly things were handled in GoT final season.

I haven't seen many complaints about acting or direction in GoT, most of complaints were directed at writing and rightly so. Let's be honest here, some of the writing in GoT was at Twilight level. Now, people can enjoy Twilight, but saying that it is high quality and defending it by saying "quality in art is subjective" is laughable.

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7 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Yes, quality in art is definitely subjective, especially when its technical merits (acting, direction, cinemotography) are as high as Game of Thrones ). The only reason forums like this can exist is because people like debating and discussing books and TV shows and their quality. It is definitely possible to enjoy something you don't think is great; it's also possible you and I and others disagree about the quality of the finale. I don't think it was peak Game of Thrones or as good as The Wire, but clearly me and others in this thread don't agree with your assessment. And I can differentiate between guilty pleasures like, say, Aquaman, and things I genuinely enjoy and think are good, thank you.

I think its all about the things you can forgive and overlook, as well what your expectations of something are.

For me the GoT finale was actually pretty good, and I'm someone who has been seriously angry about the way the show has been going for quite some time. I'm still trying to understand my own emotions as to why I am less annoyed about the ending than others, and I think its because I just have much lower expectations now. Late GoT is not the same as early GoT, and I judge s8 on late GoT standards. In that regard it comes out well. The writing is in fact better than I've been seeing since S5 in many regards and I appreciated that actually it took more time to allow scenes to breathe. 

I know full well of the problems the writing has caused, the rushed nature, the character 180's etc. But I can overlook it as I see many of the elmements of the show I once enjoyed. 

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Posted (edited)

Can't believe we are debating the existence of highly subjective opinions in art and entertainment in 2019. It's all subjective. 

I, for one, hated GoT since season 2. It was fucking garbage, for me, and yet most of you here had no issues with it until later on. Does that make you all idiots? 

Edited by Relic

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2 hours ago, baxus said:

I haven't seen many complaints about acting or direction in GoT, most of complaints were directed at writing and rightly so. Let's be honest here, some of the writing in GoT was at Twilight level. Now, people can enjoy Twilight, but saying that it is high quality and defending it by saying "quality in art is subjective" is laughable.

People only enjoy Twilight because they think it’s good, so it’s not laughable at all. There is no such thing as a perfect television show, so if the flaws of GOT stop it from being high quality, the flaws of Breaking Bad stop it from being high quality.

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18 hours ago, polishgenius said:


Lots of people love things they think are rubbish, that's why the phrase 'guilty pleasure' exists. No-one said it makes sense.

I thought “guilty pleasures” were things you liked, but that the majority of people didn’t like, so you were ashamed you like it. Maybe I’m wrong, though. Anyway, I don’t spend my time watching television shows I don’t like, but that’s just me.

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Quality in art is subjective, quality in craft is objective.  Filmmaking or TV making is a combination of art and craft, there’s definitely objective standards you can hold a TV show to.  At the same time, whether you enjoyed something despite its flaws, is back to being subjective again.

Personally, the GoT finale held my interest despite its many flaws (in fact, it can be enjoyable to watch and slag it off as it goes along).  But that’s probably because I don’t really care about GoT.  I’ve definitely got sympathy for people who genuinely loved it and feel they were let down.  They were, by people at the top of the production tree who made a deliberate decision to put out something half assed and poorly thought through.

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16 minutes ago, john said:

Quality in art is subjective, quality in craft is objective.  Filmmaking or TV making is a combination of art and craft, there’s definitely objective standards you can hold a TV show to.  At the same time, whether you enjoyed something despite its flaws, is back to being subjective again.

Wish I phrased it like this in the first place.

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4 hours ago, The Last Storm said:

True Blood got so bad i didnt make the final episode

Oh, totally forgot about True Blood upthread, good call.  I actually made it to the end for reasons beyond comprehension.  It is almost a rival for Dexter's worst ever title, but not quite.

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6 hours ago, The Last Storm said:

True Blood got so bad i didnt make the final episode

 

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Oh, totally forgot about True Blood upthread, good call.  I actually made it to the end for reasons beyond comprehension.  It is almost a rival for Dexter's worst ever title, but not quite.

I stopped watching True Blood in whatever season they started up with the fairy silliness, and have never seen the finale, but it’s interesting that Alan Ball has one of the best of all time in Six Feet Under, and one of the worst in True Blood. 

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2 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I stopped watching True Blood in whatever season they started up with the fairy silliness, and have never seen the finale, but it’s interesting that Alan Ball has one of the best of all time in Six Feet Under, and one of the worst in True Blood. 

I watched both based on him writing American Beauty.  I really like that when I was kid, not sure exactly why.  Now?  Meh.  Stopped watching Six Feet Under not because of anything the show did, but I don't think I watched much of anything other than Sopranos from 2003-2005.  Those were my 18-20 years, was about other things.  Caught up on other things after, never bothered to with Six Feet Under.

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I think a lot of shows dodge a bullet by being cancelled. That way the creators never have to stick the landing and the network instead is the target of fan's ire. Mainly because achieving a great ending for a very popular show is hard to do. Easier with cult shows as the viewers are largely on the same wavelength as the creators but GOT and lost have massive worldwide audiences.

It would never have happened but if HBO had cancelled GOT at the end of 7 people would be a lot more positive. Not just because they didn't have to witness what happened in season 8 but also because they could be content in the fact any ending could have occurred.

2 hours ago, DMC said:

I watched both based on him writing American Beauty.  I really like that when I was kid, not sure exactly why.  Now?  Meh.  Stopped watching Six Feet Under not because of anything the show did, but I don't think I watched much of anything other than Sopranos from 2003-2005.  Those were my 18-20 years, was about other things.  Caught up on other things after, never bothered to with Six Feet Under.

I think i missed some of those shows for similar reasons. I definitely missed 1-2 midseasons of sopranos initially. Six feet under i gave up on after 2-3 seasons as i was finding it dull, miserable and a bit repetitive/slow. That said, i did watch the finale and not only was it good but i was able to follow without having seen the missing episodes/seasons. So extra points to them for making a finale that can be accessible as I'm sure that happens with a lot of shows where former viewers drop in for the finale.

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Have only seen the first 4 episodes of S8 GOT so ive been avoiding articles and posts on the subject as much as possible till I can watch the final 2 myself. 

HBO has just announced they will make a sequel with an alternate ending, I believe fan anger was a great motivator for them.  Anyways I have no idea if you guys are already discussing that as I said im avoiding spoilers so im out.

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2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Have only seen the first 4 episodes of S8 GOT so ive been avoiding articles and posts on the subject as much as possible till I can watch the final 2 myself. 

HBO has just announced they will make a sequel with an alternate ending, I believe fan anger was a great motivator for them.  Anyways I have no idea if you guys are already discussing that as I said im avoiding spoilers so im out.

Source? I can’t find anything suggesting that, let alone an actual announcement. 

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22 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

HBO has just announced they will make a sequel with an alternate ending, I believe fan anger was a great motivator for them.  Anyways I have no idea if you guys are already discussing that as I said im avoiding spoilers so im out.

What the what now?  As Nic said, link please.

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