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The purpose of R+L=J?

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2 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

It was to make Jon into someone Danny could never allow to live in the long run. Someone she would inevitably see as a threat that would need to be removed.

Except for Daenerys' last words before Jon kissed her and plunged a dagger in her heart was literally "stay and rule with me"...

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19 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Except for Daenerys' last words before Jon kissed her and plunged a dagger in her heart was literally "stay and rule with me"...

He didn't kill her because he was afraid for his life, it was the idea that she might kill his sisters If they refused to bend the knee. He knew that both Arya & Sansa were not fond of "his Queen" so he had to choose. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ygrain said:

And Faramir mentioned potential rivalry between Aragorn and Boromir as captains of Gondor, as well - so, basically, having these two offed was a sort of cop-out :D

Eh, I think Denethor might have been shown the door had he survived. He ruled with the backing of the various nobility like Prince Imrahil. And the people of Gondor may well have demanded he step down because of Aragorn's proof of being the King ("hands of the healer" and all that). I'm not saying it wouldn't have been contentious, but I doubt even Denethor would go all Castamir on Aragorn, since his supporters might have been few and far between considering he hung Pelargir out to dry by leaving them to the Corsairs (not really his fault, per se, but still...).

Edited by TheNecromancerofMirkwood
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17 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Was it really to just drive Dany nuts when it came out? Because it seems like it had no other affect on the story. 

 

Brans conspiracy to have Daenerys killed.

 

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14 minutes ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

Eh, I think Denethor might have been shown the door had he survived. He ruled with the backing of the various nobility like Prince Imrahil. And the people of Gondor may well have demanded he step down because of Aragorn's proof of being the King ("hands of the healer" and all that). I'm not saying it wouldn't have been contentious, but I doubt even Denethor would go all Castamir on Aragorn, since his supporters might have been few and far between considering he hung Pelargir out to dry by leaving them to the Corsairs (not really his fault, per se, but still...).

Yeah, I doubt Denethor would have found much backing, but still - a cunning bitter old man might still find means to do a lot of mischief, like Saruman did :D

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2 hours ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

Yes, for now, until they disagree on something...  

Yeah Dany was being manipulative there. She was manipulative in E4 when she kept switching back and forth from sweet to mean, trying to get Jon to do what she wanted him to do. 

Removing fAegon explains Dany's reaction to R+L=J. She'll be weary of another male Targaryen claimant and by the time Jon reveals his parentage, she'll treat him like it's all his fault. 

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In all honesty, Jorah should have been the one to kill Daenerys, not Jon. There is literally NO WAY Jon was in love with her. Jorah, having seen her descent into madness is the one who puts her out of her misery and is forced to take The Black (as his father wanted). At least, that is how I think it could end in the books (since its unlikely The Others will actually be destroyed, but merely pushed back beyond The Wall).

But, of course, no...Jorah's gotta die by some Wight so we can shove Jon into the plot 2 seconds before crapping on him and his legacy...

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40 minutes ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

In all honesty, Jorah should have been the one to kill Daenerys, not Jon. There is literally NO WAY Jon was in love with her. Jorah, having seen her descent into madness is the one who puts her out of her misery and is forced to take The Black (as his father wanted). At least, that is how I think it could end in the books (since its unlikely The Others will actually be destroyed, but merely pushed back beyond The Wall).

But, of course, no...Jorah's gotta die by some Wight so we can shove Jon into the plot 2 seconds before crapping on him and his legacy...

Didn't even think of that. But it would have been some good writing for sure. It makes much more sense. I do personally believe Jon loved her, they just didn't act it out well. But it's suppose to have been in there. They are around the same age, perfect match and her "Children" accept him. I think that's what makes her love him. 

He loves her because.. I don't know, because she is good looking and helped him with the WW?

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On the Show? Create conflict between Jon and her sisters, Tyrion, Varys; it's also very important to understand Dany's fall into madness: he's the actual heir of the IT, not her (the destiny she believed in since she's a child), and the fact that she's his aunt makes him doubt their love.

On the books, it will make them start a war for the IT. That will be the true Dany vs Jon ending we are getting.

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Idk I just can't help but feel like GRRM has something bigger planned with R+L = J than what happened  on the show

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9 hours ago, House Rootbreaker said:

It was what made Dany go over the edge, although I think there will be a better set up in the books.  Plus it's the only reason Drogon didn't kill him

Do you really think that's why Drogon didn't kill Jon? It's not like dragons never killed Targaryens! I think there's another reason that makes more sense.

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9 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

R&L=J is opportunity to subvert the "hidden heir" trope. 

Instead of inheriting the Throne, the rightful heir is exiled as a murderer and oath breaker.  

On paper it's a nice twist...

The only reason he was exiled is because almost no one knew he was the true king. That's an important point. 

If they'd known that he was the heir and that Dany was not, it would have been just another of zillion cases of one Targaryen claimant putting down another Targaryen claimant, and moreover the one who was really the king "by the rules" did the deed so who's to say it was even illegal?

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6 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

and moreover the one who was really the king "by the rules" did the deed so who's to say it was even illegal?

He had sworn allegiance to Dany and accepted the office of Warden of the North, so had refused his claim. 

So technically Jon is a regicide and oath breaker. 

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