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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Are the Riverlands part of the North now? If so, I guess that's where they'll source their food. Nothing stopping a future King or Ironborn raiders or some Essosi invading the North though.

For now, nothing will happen because, conveniently, the King is brother to the QitN. Seriously, how are any of the other regions just cool with this?

 

They tried that many times and they failed in everytime, even at the Andal invasion, why do you think the North is the only place that has the blood of the first men and still keeps their faith to the old gods? Because they protected the North in everytime.

Probably other regions will choose their leader from now on like they chose Bran, and the North will not interfere with that election.

Edited by Erkan12

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It was an absurd answer.  The six kingdoms stay under the rule of the Northern version of wikepedia while the North is independent.  And the Iron Islands are not part of the North?  I'll assume Man1, Man2 or Man3 (those were their CC names) represented The Reach and Casterly Rock.

The largest army in Westeros had no say.

I assume The Dothraki just start raping and pillaging in Westeros now.

It would break apart as soon as armies were rebuilt.

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1 hour ago, TheSmallOther said:

You have very strange vision of paradice. Eunuchs, aka unsullied, and army of savages, aka dothraki, plus fire breathing dragon with his mother, who enjoys shooter video games.

I am not sure what your point is? The paradise was in the future. Dany was clear that this was a transitional phase, that it would be ugly but the future would be good. 

You seem to be doing nothing more than highlighting that the current situation is ugly.  Which has already been established, so why make that point, it is kinda just stating the obvious.

Did anyone at all in the show have any evidence whatsoever that after the conquest that she couldn't start to build a better world? 

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31 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

They tried that many times and they failed in everytime, even at the Andal invasion, why do you think the North is the only place that has the blood of the first men and still keeps their faith to the old gods? Because they protected the North in everytime.

Probably other regions will choose their leader from now on like they chose Bran, and the North will not interfere with that election. 

Since the Andal invasion, there have only been attacks by petty Kings. They'd be overwhelmed by a war from the rest of the continent, especially since the north does not practice knighthood. Ironborn raids and constant attacks from Essos will be an ongoing problem.

There's no indication that wardens will be elected democratically. The lords present at that Great Council certainly weren't. And the North already interfered when they decided this time.

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4 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I think Jon realized that Dany intended to mow over, by Unsullied sword or Drogon's fire, anyone who disagreed with her or who stood, however innocently, in castles or towns she planned to conquer.

Dany is Westeros version of a neocon.

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Posted (edited)

Democracy/elective monarchy makes zero sense. The whole "breaking the wheel" concept would never occur in a medieval setting like AGOT's, unless the "wheel breaker" is a monarch who wants to become absolutist and curb the rights of the nobility so that he can pass his reforms.

You could even have a situation like the Magna Carta, where the nobles, burghers and peasants would demand some limitations on the monarch to preserve their "ancient, God-given liberties". But the idea of making the world more "democratic" in a middle ages-inspired setting is just stupid. No one would think like that.

Edited by Panos Targaryen

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So Yara's whole independence plan got thrown under the bus, huh?

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How about Edmure Tully though, waddaguy. He spent years imprisoned, forgotten by the world except for the brief fleeting moments when he nearly died. Years of solitude and emptiness, does he reflect on his mistakes, does he reconsider his life choices and rebuild himself as a better more humble man?

Does he fuck. Character arc? Not for Uncle Ed. The man is true to his own self. Top man.

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2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Are the Riverlands part of the North now? If so, I guess that's where they'll source their food. Nothing stopping a future King or Ironborn raiders or some Essosi invading the North though.

 For now, nothing will happen because, conveniently, the King is brother to the QitN. Seriously, how are any of the other regions just cool with this?

I think not since it's said that Bran is king of six kingdoms, about essos though I completely agree, North is probably the least populous kingdom right now because of their losses, once the King of the South doesn't care about the North, the might of Essos will surely crush them, plus the future raids by Wildlings.

beats me bro., they just got this idea about elective monarchy where only lords can vote and can be voted, much like Great council but this time they won't be choosing from Targaryen lineage but to all noble houses, South will succumb to another civil war in the future that's for sure.

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5 hours ago, Pauld123 said:

Is this what the show is telling us? You cannot break the wheel? Ok there is now a sort of roman democracy but that is a fairly slim form of democracy. Ultimatley there is still a king, the arguments in the Hand's meetings pretty much are the same. Everything is pretty much the same. 

Dany wanted to break the wheel for all but openly admitted that the only route would be a morally difficult one. But at the end of that journey would be a paradise. 

Thing is, Jon would rather the unfair system they had with a slight few tweaks than actually take the journey to paradise.

Dany wasn’t breaking the wheel. She was continuing it and wanted to be the supreme leader at the top. She was completely unhinged and the end result of a leader being chosen by the lords and ladies of Westeros is the closest you can get to a Democratic ending.

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25 minutes ago, Gendarrion said:

I think not since it's said that Bran is king of six kingdoms, about essos though I completely agree, North is probably the least populous kingdom right now because of their losses, once the King of the South doesn't care about the North, the might of Essos will surely crush them, plus the future raids by Wildlings.

beats me bro., they just got this idea about elective monarchy where only lords can vote and can be voted, much like Great council but this time they won't be choosing from Targaryen lineage but to all noble houses, South will succumb to another civil war in the future that's for sure.

Then it would have made since to show Jon become a leader in the Wildlings community he wont like them raiding his former home. 

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8 hours ago, House Of Wolves said:

What do you guys think of the new Six kingdoms? Do you think its more or less likely to lead to long term peace?

The peace is most certainly not going to last, and I definitely think this new council system will result in war, potentially right at their next election. Each of the kingdoms is going to want a ruler with the own best interests in mind and these interests are inevitably going to clash. I'm even shocked that Bran was elected so easily and with zero argument about other possible contenders. Half of the council doesn't even know him. And they certainly don't know anything about his whole three-eyed raven gig. Tyrion's argument about Bran having the best story making him most fit to be king was just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Edmure thinking he was somehow going to get the job.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Pauld123 said:

I am not sure what your point is? The paradise was in the future. Dany was clear that this was a transitional phase, that it would be ugly but the future would be good. 

You seem to be doing nothing more than highlighting that the current situation is ugly.  Which has already been established, so why make that point, it is kinda just stating the obvious.

Did anyone at all in the show have any evidence whatsoever that after the conquest that she couldn't start to build a better world? 

The road to hell is often paved by good intentions.

You could only look at Robespierre and how he turned from  his campaigning for universal manhood suffrage abolition of celibacy and the abolition of slavery in the French colonies to creation of reign of Terror forcing people to uphold virtues that state dictates by fear of execution.

In the show it is done very sloppily and there is no doubt that show Daenerys would only create more devastation, division and  death, with her New world order enforced by Dragon , Dothraki and Drones, that wouldn't be lasting and certainly not paradise.

Edited by Eltharion21

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Was elective monarchy a better system in HRE and Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth?

Strengthening of gentry especially electors and further oppression of common folk.

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11 hours ago, legba11 said:

It was an absurd answer.  The six kingdoms stay under the rule of the Northern version of wikepedia while the North is independent.  And the Iron Islands are not part of the North?  I'll assume Man1, Man2 or Man3 (those were their CC names) represented The Reach and Casterly Rock.

The largest army in Westeros had no say.

I assume The Dothraki just start raping and pillaging in Westeros now.

It would break apart as soon as armies were rebuilt.

Outside of Sam I doubt there was any representation from the Reach and Westerlands. They were the losers in this war, sending potential hostages or victims so soon to Kings Landing will not have been a wise move to make given the bloodshed.

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11 hours ago, legba11 said:

It was an absurd answer.  The six kingdoms stay under the rule of the Northern version of wikepedia while the North is independent.  And the Iron Islands are not part of the North?  I'll assume Man1, Man2 or Man3 (those were their CC names) represented The Reach and Casterly Rock.

The largest army in Westeros had no say.

I assume The Dothraki just start raping and pillaging in Westeros now.

It would break apart as soon as armies were rebuilt.

Which is what always happens.  It's like the myth the seven kingdoms were peaceful once united.

Whether it be a generation after this lot, or 100 years down the line sooner or later there will be wars between them.

As for the North going independent, I think that D&D just handled it badly or couldn't be arsed with the politics of it.  Sansa has been schooled by Littlefinger.  I have little doubt that in the books she would have been far more machiavellian about it.  I wouldn't even be surprised that in the books her telling Tyrion (or whoever) about Jon's heritage is all part of her plan to divide and conquer so that she could end up as Queen of the North and that she'll throw Jon under the proverbial bus to get it.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Gendarrion said:

North - in a severe winter they experience famine, and Aegon V have to send large shipment of food to support them, in future if this happen how will they survive?, and what's to stop future kings from invading the North?.

They survived for thousands of years before the Targayens came over, so I think they'll do fine.

Edited by KingMudd

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I'd imagine war breaks out sooner or later anyway. The whole kingdom is a mess with most armies depleted and defences shattered. Anyone with eyes on ruling or gaining more power will be looking the kingdom up and down and picking targets to attack for their own gain. 

Kings Landing for starters is completely destroyed so the capital is in rebuilding, King Brandon doesn't even have an army to protect him, he can call on the North of big Sis but then you've instantly got another civil war. yeah he has Brienne, pod and Bronn but it's hardly gonna stop an army from marching in and massacring them if they should please.

The North seemingly have an army but just weeks ago at the battle of Winterfell they were literally talking about how depleted it was and afterwards even more so. It might be enough to hold power for the time being with most other armies in ruins but they best get building and keeping those factions tight. They have bad blood with the Iron islands that doesnt look to be going away although I wouldn't see Yara as an instant threat.

The vale seem to have a decent army still but they have a complete oddball in charge in Sweet Robin Arryn, who the hell knows what sort of carnage he could cause if he ends up being the sole leader one day. He's not on the planet so is a right wildcard to start just about anything.

You also have armies from Essos now taking land in Westeros. The Unsullied cant even breed and have only known war, not a chance they gop off to an island to live their life in peace, they'll get bored quick enough and take ships to head to the North to finish their feud with Jon and his merry bunch of Wildlings.

The Dothraki no doubt hit the road and start plundering, raping and pillaging small towns until they start building bigger numbers again, they will rampage anywhere so nowhere is really safe whilst they are on the prowl.

Dorne missed the whole White Walker threat and the saga with Kings Landing, in fact they should be pretty frsh and could mount a challenge to anyone at this point should they so wish.

I don't think Edmure is much of a threat but someone may want to threaten him and his lands. Same with gendry who if they go through with Danys deal cant be expected to just take back the Stormlands as a bastard who has never lived there, knows no one and has no army or even close allies to pitch up with.

Hell knows whats happening in Essos but once some ships have crossed over and been successful no doubt theres plenty of armies over there who haven't been through years of destruction who might fancy their chances against a beaten down Westeros.

I don't think they get long under Bran before something kicks off tbh.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Are the Riverlands part of the North now? If so, I guess that's where they'll source their food. Nothing stopping a future King or Ironborn raiders or some Essosi invading the North though.

For now, nothing will happen because, conveniently, the King is brother to the QitN. Seriously, how are any of the other regions just cool with this?

14 hours ago, justanotherposter said:

Wasn't the vale pledged to Sansa? Seems like they'd have left with her. And I'd have a hard time imagining the Riverlands not leaving with the north as well. Edmure knows his house is bound to both the Vale and North by blood whereas all it'd take is a ruler who's upset with the Tully's to wreak havoc on the Riverlands sticking as part of the 6. 

Nope. Sansa wasn't the official ruler of the Vale; she just revealed that Littlefinger had killed her aunt, and the Valelords supported her against him, but Sweetrobin is still their Lord Paramount, and the guy sitting next to him  (Royce?) is their de facto ruler.

As for the Riverlands, they followed Robb, but I haven't seen any clue that they intend to follow Sansa too. They only sided with the Starks against the Lannisters because they were family... And anyway, Sansa treated her uncle like crap in front of the others... why would he follow her rather than Bran, who is his nephew too?

When Sansa announced that she was going, Sweetrobin and Edmure remained silent, and Tyrion said "the Six Kingdoms", implying that only one of them was leaving...

 

Edited by Ser Lepus

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Posted (edited)

Ridiculous nonsense. A weak puppet monarch in name only. Power to the kingdoms that works with the same rules as ever.

Yes war is certain. At least once ter dies and population/armies numbers rise. A war for succession. Secession too (Dorne and II for sure since there is no dornish princess anymore).

The reason for hereditary is not just "my son", it's to prepare the boy and to have stability and clear line of succession = peace.  

 WTF where half those dudes doing there, like Arya, Davos, Brienne, heck even Tyrion. They would care about Jon but not Tyrion, DD's pet.

Also yes because the only reason the unsullied went away was to let the Dothrakhi terrorize westeros. Also rampaging vindicative unstoppable dragon. You should not have killed her Jon/Tyrion.

Edited by Dragonslack

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