Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Anyway, regarding the NW, the Wall and the wildlings and Jon. It seemed evident to everyone but Jon that the NW was just a thing to get Jon away from GW, a type of ruse. There's one giant gaping hole in the Wall at Eastwatch (in the books I believe it would be at CB itself), so wildlings can cross into the gift anyway. The 5 NW brothers at CB acted much like the wildlings did. Tormund was also a defender of the Wall and in command of Eastwatch before, so he was pretty much the commander at CB after the death of Edd Tollet. There isn't really a NW anymore, no need, and a peace between free folk and the North. And Jon is free to do whatever he likes. He could stay at CB, go to his sister at WF (who the hell is gonna rat on Jon to GW at Naath, and the North is an independent kingdom), and he can go be free away from kingdoms. He chose the wilderness and freedom. That's likely the best way to ensure his vows. The Free Folk don't "own" land, have no kings and no wife in the sense that the kingdoms have, only lovers. And since he's immortal  (cannot die from a natural death), he can be a figure amongst the Free Folk for generations to ensure there's peace between the North and the Free Folk.

Pretty sure it'll play out somewhat different in the books, because wildlings were given castles at the Wall and settled on the gift, while Thenns are married into Karhold. Nor do I think the threat of the Others will be permanently gone for all time.

Edited by sweetsunray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, divica said:

She complelty betrayed him and began the events that led to him having to kill danny. He can t just act like it was nothing. He should be angry and mad with her!

But she did the same shit in the battle of the bastards he he imedialty forgave her...

It makes no sense...

He wasn't even mad at Dany for burning KL to the ground. Tyrion had to talk him into realizing what Dany became. And it was also made clear in epi 5 that Dany believed Jon betrayed her anyhow. Even if Sansa hadn't told Tyrion, Dany would still have suspected Jon of betraying her, no matter what he did, no matter what Sansa did.

Now, I'm not defending the awful characterization of almost every character in the show. Characterization on this show since the end of S4 is just not something where "he/she should have felt this or that way" works. You sort of have to accept what they put on screen, even if it's OOC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

And there should be a price. I think I could have been something different. Tyrion has to serve as hand as punishment. Why not make Jon have to stay south and serve has kingsguard. They also take a vow of celibacy and have no titles. He could be wheeling Bran around. 

Who thinks Tyrion is punished?  I just don't see it.  Tyrion gets to do, what he likes to do, and what, in the past, he has done well.  With somebody who can see near and far, Tyrion will be unlikely to wrong, often as Bran will stop him.  Tyrion encouraged the crime of killing Dany.  He gets pretty much what he likes.  Jon on the other hand is exiled, diminished, and a token to the unsullied.  Jon does not deserve that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Jon is very ambivalent, a loser to start with

And that, folks, is D&D's legacy here. They have taken Jon from the books and turned him into a very convincing serial loser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, divica said:

The same greyworm that destroyed and killed everyone in KL. How do people care about what he wants? They should hate him!

Because they dont want to go to war with Grey Worm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Who thinks Tyrion is punished?  I just don't see it.  Tyrion gets to do, what he likes to do, and what, in the past, he has done well.  With somebody who can see near and far, Tyrion will be unlikely to wrong, often as Bran will stop him.  Tyrion encouraged the crime of killing Dany.  He gets pretty much what he likes.  Jon on the other hand is exiled, diminished, and a token to the unsullied.  Jon does not deserve that.

Bran said it was his punishment after Grey Worm said he should be punished. Tyrion says I dont want it. I dont consider it punishment but that is how the writers presented it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Who thinks Tyrion is punished?  I just don't see it.  Tyrion gets to do, what he likes to do, and what, in the past, he has done well.  With somebody who can see near and far, Tyrion will be unlikely to wrong, often as Bran will stop him.  Tyrion encouraged the crime of killing Dany.  He gets pretty much what he likes.  Jon on the other hand is exiled, diminished, and a token to the unsullied.  Jon does not deserve that.

This sums up my feelings perfectly. 

Even though I predicted Jon would end up far North, I thought it would be his choosing.  The circumstances that eventually get him there are just ....sad and it's like he's the fall guy for essentially saving the world.  But I guess that's the point of his character.  It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

And yes, I do think they left the ending somewhat open ended, re:Jon's intentions.  My gut feeling is that he is leaving with the wildlings given that long look he gives the gate as it closes.  I did not take his "exile" to CB as a ruse to just get rid of GW.  Even Tyrion comments that the NW is still needed as a glorified prison and dumping ground for undesirables.  But then again, Jon is all duty and honor so maybe he just escorts them and returns to CB? Either ending is valid IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, divica said:

She complelty betrayed him and began the events that led to him having to kill danny. He can t just act like it was nothing. He should be angry and mad with her!

But she did the same shit in the battle of the bastards he he imedialty forgave her...

It makes no sense...

He didnt invite her to visit him at Castle Black... He needs more time I guess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Skills said:

Jon is all duty and honor so maybe he just escorts them and returns to CB? Either ending is valid IMO.

I believe Jon goes back to Castle Black. He will take his punishment but he will spend time with Tormund and maybe Sansa in the future. Because He is the new Benjen like someone pointed out. And Sansa is Ned. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other nice touch (intended or not) was how Ned was supposed to be exiled to CB but obviously was executed first,  and now Jon sort of fulfills that original punishment.  Not sure if the writers intended this connection but it worked for me.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That seems to have been cheap cop-out on the part of the hacks, considering that nobody ever threatened the lives of Dany and Arya, no?

Tyrion deduced that their lives would be in danger based on Sansa's not getting along with Dany and wish for Northern independence, Arya being Arya and likely to strike if she thought her pack vulnerable, and both of them being related to Jon and "in the know" about his claim to the throne. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

And that, folks, is D&D's legacy here. They have taken Jon from the books and turned him into a very convincing serial loser.

Exactly! what a shame. D&D killed Book!Jon. And people will incorrectly categorize one of GRRM’s principal characters as a “loser” or “ambivalent” or whatever else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Did anyone else noticed the shot of the wall without any holes on it? As if the wall was rebuilt?

That section of the wall has no holes. It was Eastwatch that went down. 95% of the wall is still up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, King Jon Snow Stark said:

That section of the wall has no holes. It was Eastwatch that went down. 95% of the wall is still up

Oh. My bad then. I really thought they've forget about the whole ice dragon scene destroying a part of it, but they aren't that incompetent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I got the impression he will end up training the men Tyrion and Sansa send to the wall because there must always be a place for bastards and broken men. That's the purpose of the new Night's Watch. 

Jon is Spencer Tracy in Boys Town? Except in this case all his wards end up stabbing him in the heart. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There is no indication that he is abandoning his post again. As I see it, he just escorted the wildlings back beyond the Wall, to the shitty place they apparently belong. There is no indication he is going to live with them, is there?

But in the end, who cares?

He was speaking frequently with Mance Rayder and freedom beyond the wall, the arc suggests he becomes king beyond the wall and will abandon his post. There is absolutely no point in being at the actual wall itself any more with no wildling or undead threat.

Also the arc meets the other Aegon up there's. It totally makes sense in that roundabout narrative.

He found some sort of enjoyment up there anyway, and in the books he might meet Val ;)

Edited by 420faceless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

And there should be a price. I think I could have been something different. Tyrion has to serve as hand as punishment. Why not make Jon have to stay south and serve has kingsguard. They also take a vow of celibacy and have no titles. He could be wheeling Bran around. 

Speaking of Tyrion, could he pay for murdering his father among other crimes at some point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

The question is why they wanted to go south. If they wanted to go south of the Wall because of WW and wights, now the WW and wights are defeated and wildlings can return back home. Just speculation ofc.

We are told many kings beyond have marched on the Wall unsuccessfully. But the White Walkers only rose shortly before the events of the show. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Oh. My bad then. I really thought they've forget about the whole ice dragon scene destroying a part of it, but they aren't that incompetent

In the intro of epi 6, they still show a gaping hole in the wall at Eastwatch. Don't think it'll be rebuild. No need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×