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Nami

Do you feel this show had any negative effect on how you view the books?

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Posted (edited)

Is this really the ending we're going to get? Are you ok with that?
I look at the books on my shelf now and think: Dany is my favorite character. I relate to her in a sense. I've rooted for her and cried with her. Is this really where all her struggles and pain are gonna lead her to? Turning mad and being killed by her boyfriend? What was the point of it all?

Edited by Nami

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If this is the end in the books all the learning to rule arc for Dany and Jon is just moot. 

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Posted (edited)

I think yes.

GRRM loves the pattern of a fight after the main antagonist is beaten. He was heavily influenced by Tolkien, so you can see how Thorin, after defeatimg Smaug, went opsessed with the gold and started a war because he didn't want to share it.

In real history, we've had several civil wars in old Rome, and in the end, Augustus and Antony, having split the world as they knew it in half, both wanted the whole world for themselves, resulting in another civil war.

Like it or not, greed, and insanity which follows it, is in the human nature. Not that everyone has it in his nature. But I can see It being stronger than Dany in Martin's story as well. 

Edited by The Sunland Lord

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Daenerys and Jaime are two of my favorite characters, so if this is how things unfold in Martin’s version I would be highly disappointed. 

King Bran (what is he 10 in the books?) would also bother me. 

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Let's break it...

1. Jon - It is somewhat Rand al'Thor-esque ending. I actually like it. I believe there will be moments to see Jon ruling before the end, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him heading to Castle Black and ending his days there.

2. Dany - This is complicated. I am not bothered by Dany being the tragic villain of the story. Martin is very good in setting power traps for the characters. I would really hate to see it being done in this way. This "hero to zero" thing bothered me, but I don't think that Dany will survive the books.

3. Tyrion - If I didn't see the first two as King/Queen of Seven Kingdoms, Tyrion was my choice. And perhaps we may still get that. I think him being the King makes more sense than Bran. Which also leads me to...

4. Sansa - OK, her having her Elizabethan moment is a dream come true (and I literally mean THAT last scene, nothing else). Gaining agency is a huge deal for Sansa and getting both personal and political independence was satisfactory. I also once thought that Tyrion and Sansa may rule together as King of South and Queen in North or something like that. 

5. Arya - A new Nymeria, going on adventures of her own? I find it OK.

6. Bran - I simply can't see him as King. He is too emotionless. Yes, being King should be just, but he is like a shell of human being. Not quite sure whether he would be a good ruler. And "the one with the best story" is so absurd.

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Posted (edited)

No, books and the show will not share the plot, not even the main endings of each plot. 

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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17 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Daenerys and Jaime are two of my favorite characters, so if this is how things unfold in Martin’s version I would be highly disappointed. 

King Bran (what is he 10 in the books?) would also bother me. 

King Bran - if his character in the books is just as emotionless and no longer human as in the show - is just ridiculous. King Bran in the books would mean that GRRM mistrusts magic and power and religion - only as long as it is not practiced by a Stark.  

Bran as king to me seems shallow. Much much ado and hundreds of thousands of words about - yes: nothing.

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I do think Daenerys will burn King's Landing, but I really just cant see any of the cheesy shit that happened in this episode happen in the books. 

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Not sure that question is answerable yet.  BUT as a rule, the book is always better than the movie.  I have faith that once GRRM finishes the series, the holes will be filled and things will at least make sense, even if everyone doesn't like the ending.  Not liking the ending is still OK.

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No. One of my biggest issues with this season hasn't been what has happened, but the pacing and execution. We barely see Jon and Daenerys together between S7/8, but were they meant to truly love each other? I never bought it.

We spend so long building up to the dead and they are gone in one episode?

Daenerys execution throughout most of the show was poor. I'm glad Tyrion made the point that she has punished evil people so no one cares, cause I've been saying that for a while. So I think the evidence was there that she'd burn KL, but overall Daenerys in the show was never likeable and that is a major issue. I like book Dany, if this happens it would feel tragic, but show Daenerys has always been awful.

 

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For a while I couldn’t wait for this show to end, but when I realized that episode 5 was actually GRRMs ending, even though it was pared down, I became excited to read the rest of the books. D&D did the best they could with a massive vehicle, but the ending was truncated. I am anxious to see how George writes the ending.

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If I am understanding the question: no, not for me. In fact, when we eventually get TWOW, it will be fascinating to observe the differences between the two stories. The show had the "broad strokes" and general plot points to follow past ADWD and the showrunners had to fill in the blanks past that point. The books will hit those broad strokes general plot points with a lot more context and information (and a lot better writing!)

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5 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

No. It is the journey that matters, and I'm confident that GRRM wil handle the ending in a considerably different way even though the outcome may look the same.

What’s Bran’s age now, 9-10 in the books? How is a kid going to rule Westeros? he’ll need a regent? Without his 5-year gap how is GRRM going to make this work? He has said in the past that there’ll be several people on the IT before the end. Even then Bran will not age enough for him to take the IT. And why would Westeros want Bran to be king? If Jon’s identity is revealed (which I expect) why wouldn’t the Lords of Westeros want him to take the throne? Things don’t add up. And all this Jon being exiled plot is utter rubbish. If he does end up falling in love with Dany and killing her, I guess he’ll be a broken man and will walk away from everything but even so, why Bran?

And the whole plot about the North wanting independence despite a Stark being the King of Westeros is utter BS.

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1 hour ago, teej6 said:

What’s Bran’s age now, 9-10 in the books? How is a kid going to rule Westeros? he’ll need a regent? Without his 5-year gap how is GRRM going to make this work? He has said in the past that there’ll be several people on the IT before the end. Even then Bran will not age enough for him to take the IT. And why would Westeros want Bran to be king? If Jon’s identity is revealed (which I expect) why wouldn’t the Lords of Westeros want him to take the throne? Things don’t add up. 

Well, technically he's not sitting the IT but a wheelchair :D

But I agree that this plot development is highly unlikely in the books - not just due to Bran's age but also due to his handicap. Most likely, Bran will not be able to have children. In a land following succession rules for thousands of years, he is not an eligible candidate.

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

And all this Jon being exiled plot is utter rubbish. If he does end up falling in love with Dany and killing her, I guess he’ll be a broken man and will walk away from everything but even so, why Bran?

Jon as a disgraced outlaw is an option I consider viable; actually, had it among possible scenarios way before the show. But I do expect his parentage matter somehow, both to his personal development as well as the overall arc. I think that Varys' lame attempt at plotting might hint at Jon struggling not to become anyone's pawn in the game of thrones.

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

And the whole plot about the North wanting independence despite a Stark being the King of Westeros is utter BS.

Well... I wouldn't underestimate the Northern stubborness, but I more or less agree.

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I have to admit the show has lessened my interest in the books from about Season 6. Before then I would read the books obsessively hoping to garner more hints as to what might happen.

The show has laid out roughly how I think the books will go, obviously in a less interesting complicated way. Once I saw that the overall story wasn't really going to go anywhere unexpected and that the general pattern over events I had assumed would play out were going that way, well I lost interest. 

Now if the books ever arrive then I'll read them, for completeness. But there is little excitement there. 

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Posted (edited)

It cant possibly have a negative effective on my view of how the magic and Others are handled in the books - because you cant get any worse than how they were handled in show.

Edited by ummester

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The knife the show has been driving very effectively into my gut - I'll have to wait and see how to deal with that - is the thematic one. Regardless of individual plots and endings (which I doubt are drawn from the books at this point) there is the fact that there is no payoff whatsoever. It is continuing with shitty and standard politics and the only good way to deal with this is to actually leave Westeros (either by ship or to go the Wall).

This underlines the pointlessness of the entire story. I honestly don't want to have wasted as much time and effort on a silly fantasy series which, in the end, was just about a pointless political plot that's never going to be resolved, anyway. I didn't like that aspect very much when I first read the books.

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