Do you feel this show had any negative effect on how you view the books?

[Sigella]

On 7/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Mystical said:

The story isn't finished (and probably never will) so your complaint has no merit. 

 

On 7/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Mystical said:

what does it matter if you like it or not?

 

On 7/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Mystical said:

Just because you personally didn't like what happens to your obvious fave character means very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

On 7/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Mystical said:

Is it his fault you had blinders or didn't pay attention or want your fave character to be handed only the best? Nope, you oy have yourself to blame for that. And then you hate on creators for not giving you what you wanted, calling the story a cliché, even when the story isn't even finished.

 

Take another look at the topic  If you don't wish to read about posters personal preferences you just... don't.

 

On 7/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Mystical said:

Dany is plenty gray already in the books and unlike the show, the books don't ask you to applaud her blood/fire lust and slaughter and questionable decisions. But even the show, badly written as it was, it was the fans own fault for not seeing the darker side of Dany. Sure it was clumsily written and they always tried to gloss over it, but pretending it wasn't there is like saying you didn't actually watch the show or simply had blinders on while you did.

I get what you mean; the blankness at Viserys death, sexy-time-face when feeding the chained dragons a slaver and crucifying people who had crucified children - is to meagre to cut it for me.

Actually it's so meagre that I took it to mean she was allowed some ruthlessness or fiery temper or whatever and still be a heroine, like male heroes often are allowed some faults to their character. Silly me.

 

[Haskelltier]

On 7/11/2019 at 9:50 AM, SeanF said:

What the show probably got right is that the nobility of Westeros will be hugely prejudiced against Daenerys.  She's a woman, she's the Mad King's daughter, she was married to a horse Lord.  Cersei's description of her as a "foreign whore who doesn't know her place" is likely to be the general view.  Everything she does will be viewed in the worst possible light, and she'll be blamed for things that aren't her fault.

A plausible reaction. And I would bet, that Cersei or whoever rules in Kings Landing will stimulate those thoughts by spreading propaganda. A foreign invader with an army of ruthless slaves (freed slaves, but who knows the difference) and murdering, raping and pillaging barbarians with two very dangerous and deadly dragons. That will make it very difficult for Daenerys to find allies or rule after conquering the continent.

[Rose of Red Lake]

I hope GRRM keeps Cersei vs. Dany in the books. In fact, I sort of wish Tommen sticks around because I'd love to see Dany have to kill sweet innocent Tommen to take the throne.

And of course she would. She's fixated on ruling Westeros and isn't going to let anyone stand in her way. On top of that, Dany believes she has a destiny. GRRM is going to absolutely destroy anyone who thinks that. This was evidenced when reading Quentyn. You could predict Dany's ignoble, dumb death based on Quentyn's ending. 

 

 

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I hope GRRM keeps Cersei vs. Dany in the books. In fact, I sort of wish Tommen sticks around because I'd love to see Dany have to kill sweet innocent Tommen to take the throne.

And of course she would. She's fixated on ruling Westeros and isn't going to let anyone stand in her way. On top of that, Dany believes she has a destiny. GRRM is going to absolutely destroy anyone who thinks that. This was evidenced when reading Quentyn. You could predict Dany's ignoble, dumb death based on Quentyn's ending. 

 

 

I 'd expect Cersei to be taken out by Jon Con/Faegon.

Child murder is certainly not part of Dany's modus operandi.

[Rose of Red Lake]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

I 'd expect Cersei to be taken out by Jon Con/Faegon.

Child murder is certainly not part of Dany's modus operandi.

I still think its a better story if she's up against Cersei who will do anything to win as well, with a kid as her obstacle. I'd be more excited for that than boring JonCon. She's going to get to the point where she thinks she has to kill lots of people, including children, to win, anyway. 

[ummester]

 

Hello

[ResidentHi11]

Yes, the ending did ruin it for me.

 

Season 8 was handles so incredibly badly, with a rushed ending that didn't make ANY sense and was beyond stupid.

 

It seems from what I have read that the ending to the books will be very similar and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I may finish reading the books someday if he actually finishes the series....but I am no longer the excited fanboy that I was.

[Tyrion1991]

Yes. Because it’s revealed that George intends to hurl Dany under the bus to make irrelevant thematic points whilst elevating two of his worst characters. It’s pure hypocrisy.

So Bran pursues his destiny and is rewarded with God powers and is made King? The Nerd in the Chair? Whilst Dany pursues her destiny and it’s all foolish hubris and madness. Really George? As a guy, if George wants to challenge a male power fantasy this is a very unusual way to do it.  

Oh but then there’s also the good boy who manages to screw up another relationship forcing him to get her killed. Are we advocating murder as a way of sorting out relationship problems? Only a weak man chooses. Maester Aemon was a bitter old man and his views can’t be taken seriously. Because the most heroic thing a man can do is to kill the woman he lives (Starscream voice). 

But the Starks can kill as many people as they want to take their house with the red door back. But Dany doing it as abominable act of Chaos that can only lead to doom. Pursuit of power is bad. So bad unless you have wolfsblood and are the Kings of Winter. Who can neatly kill all the bad people without any bad light being cast on it.

 

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Kind of. I despise my favourite character's ending so I'm less excited about the journey to get there. Although, has to be said we still don't know what Arya is for in the books, there is no Night King. She doesn't seem to have a role after the war. So out of the core 5 she is still a massive question mark.

[BlackLightning]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:23 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I hope GRRM keeps Cersei vs. Dany in the books. In fact, I sort of wish Tommen sticks around because I'd love to see Dany have to kill sweet innocent Tommen to take the throne.

And of course she would. She's fixated on ruling Westeros and isn't going to let anyone stand in her way. On top of that, Dany believes she has a destiny. GRRM is going to absolutely destroy anyone who thinks that. This was evidenced when reading Quentyn. You could predict Dany's ignoble, dumb death based on Quentyn's ending. 

There's no way. I'm sure Cersei will still be alive when Daenerys comes to Westeros and the two armies will cross swords. But no, there's no way Cersei's children will still be on the Iron Throne. And it is absolutely impossible for Cersei to be able to seat herself on the Iron Throne after her last two children die...especially not with her political track record.

On 7/13/2019 at 12:20 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I still think its a better story if she's up against Cersei who will do anything to win as well, with a kid as her obstacle. I'd be more excited for that than boring JonCon. She's going to get to the point where she thinks she has to kill lots of people, including children, to win, anyway. 

Well, I don't think that JonCon is boring. He knew Aerys, Rhaegar and Rhaella personally for many years. Having to defend Rhaegar's (alleged) son from Rhaegar's sister is going to have a gnarly effect on his mind. There's also the fact that JonCon is still very traumatized from Robert's Rebellion. Did I mention that he has a disease that is extremely contagious and that he has no plans on getting it treated. All he wants to do is get Aegon on the Iron Throne, make sure he is secure and then go off somewhere so he can die in peace. This is going to be complicated if Daenerys comes shortly after Aegon is crowned.

And for what it's worth, you're also forgetting about Arianne Martell and she is anything but boring. Arianne is specifically being set up as a major antagonistic force to Dany. Like, Arianne will have some very serious personal and political problems with Dany and a few of them are justified.

Plus, there's also Varys, Illyrio and Aegon to think about. They are also going to have some interesting perspectives on Daenerys the Stallion.

On 8/12/2019 at 3:40 PM, Tyrion1991 said:

Yes. Because it’s revealed that George intends to hurl Dany under the bus to make irrelevant thematic points whilst elevating two of his worst characters. It’s pure hypocrisy.

So Bran pursues his destiny and is rewarded with God powers and is made King? The Nerd in the Chair? Whilst Dany pursues her destiny and it’s all foolish hubris and madness. Really George? As a guy, if George wants to challenge a male power fantasy this is a very unusual way to do it.  

Oh but then there’s also the good boy who manages to screw up another relationship forcing him to get her killed. Are we advocating murder as a way of sorting out relationship problems? Only a weak man chooses. Maester Aemon was a bitter old man and his views can’t be taken seriously. Because the most heroic thing a man can do is to kill the woman he lives (Starscream voice). 

But the Starks can kill as many people as they want to take their house with the red door back. But Dany doing it as abominable act of Chaos that can only lead to doom. Pursuit of power is bad. So bad unless you have wolfsblood and are the Kings of Winter. Who can neatly kill all the bad people without any bad light being cast on it.

 

That is a bit strange.

If you look back at it, this has always been a Stark-centric story. All of the stuff that has happened since Red Wedding has made us forget about it but yeah...the Stark bias is strong.

I do think that the endings for Jaime, Cersei, Euron, Jon and Tyrion will be VERY different in the books.

Kinslaying, kingslaying and general treachery is very serious business so Jon would logistically in much, much bigger trouble than he was in the show. Besides, Jon will likely be giving off Beric Dondarrion zombie by then so...yikes. I see death in Jon's future. And Tyrion is obviously becoming a full-out evil villain so there's no way he's getting out of this alive and uninjured with a happy ending.

I agree though: I'm not sure what GRRM is trying to accomplish. The Starks of Winterfell are known to have been cold and hard with wildly horrible tempers, a hotblooded sensuality and a knack for cruelty. That's where the term wolfsblood comes from. They literally conquered the entire North and made themselves the wardens of the Wall after they had it built.

Not sure what makes them different from the Targaryens...

[miyuki]

Hmmm... Lets see where some of the POV characters ended up in the series.

Sansa became the queen in the North. This seems believable, but I am still very much interested in reading her POV-s since everything she did to get there (seasons 5-8) has basically 0% of chance happening in the novels. The Ramsay arc belongs to somebody else and whatever she did in season 6,7 and 8 were so badly written that in no universe will GRRM write stuff like that. In the books, she is still in the Vale and I am very interested in how she takes the North and actually learns how to play the game of thrones. In the show she just got raped and after that she was basically Cercei on brain steroids. So the show hasn't changed my view on Sansa, she still even looks different when I imagine her while reading her chapters. Book Sansa was always different - in the show she was introduced as a rude teen who hated her boring life in the North. Sansa is not rude, she is a lady. Her scenes in season 1 with septa Mordane where she insults her were so off the character. 

Arya sailed west of Westeros. Okay, believable. But the only thing this tells us, is that she makes the series out alive. We don't know what her endgame in the books will be, but we do know that everything she does after leaving Braavos in season 6 has basically 0% chance of happening. Revenge for Red Wedding is related to the the plot in Riverlands and Lady Stoneheart, not her, so she's not gonna kill the Freys. Manderlys did the Frey Pies so more proof that Arya's further plot in the books wont involve what she did in the show. There is no Night King so Arya can't kill it. So everything between Arya leaving Braavos and sailing west in her final scene is not happening in the books, her plot in season 6-8 s basically fanfiction. We don't know what her endgame will be so I am very interested for the books. 

Bran became king. Okay this I can not see happening at this point, but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen, okay. But again, his road there is going to be different, because his story in season 6-8 can not happen in the books. It is established in ADWD that Bran needs weirwood trees to look in the past - there aren't any in Dornish mountains. The whole "learning about R+L=J" cannot be Bran's thing, it has to come from somewhere else - perhaps from Aero's chapter since he's going to deal with a Dayne. Since there is no Night King, the whole "I'm the memory of this world and he wants to erase it" bullshit won't happen either. We are likely gonna learn a lot about the Others through him, but everything the White walkers are in the show they won't be in the books. They can't be a bioweapon made by the children since the Others came after the war between humans and the children. Bran's story is going to be sooooo different in the books and since it's going to be so different I guess when he eventually does become king, it would make some goddamn sense, unlike in the show.

Tyrion ended as the hand of the king. Ok, so he also lives - good to know! In the books he still hasn't met Dany. We know his awful "I drink and know things" ruling in Mereen is not going to happen in the books, so mark season 6 of Tyrion's story as fanfiction. He could however become Dany's hand and he could organize Dany's conquest of Westeros like he does in season 7. But thankfully, in the noverls, he is Tyrion the Imp, not Saint Tyrion the Whore Romancer so I assume it will be very fun to read him advising Dany. IF that ever happens of course, since he hasn't even met her. ..

 

[Angel Eyes]

24 minutes ago, miyuki said:

Hmmm... Lets see where some of the POV characters ended up in the series.

Sansa became the queen in the North. This seems believable, but I am still very much interested in reading her POV-s since everything she did to get there (seasons 5-8) has basically 0% of chance happening in the novels. The Ramsay arc belongs to somebody else and whatever she did in season 6,7 and 8 were so badly written that in no universe will GRRM write stuff like that. In the books, she is still in the Vale and I am very interested in how she takes the North and actually learns how to play the game of thrones. In the show she just got raped and after that she was basically Cercei on brain steroids. So the show hasn't changed my view on Sansa, she still even looks different when I imagine her while reading her chapters. Book Sansa was always different - in the show she was introduced as a rude teen who hated her boring life in the North. Sansa is not rude, she is a lady. Her scenes in season 1 with septa Mordane where she insults her were so off the character. 

Arya sailed west of Westeros. Okay, believable. But the only thing this tells us, is that she makes the series out alive. We don't know what her endgame in the books will be, but we do know that everything she does after leaving Braavos in season 6 has basically 0% chance of happening. Revenge for Red Wedding is related to the the plot in Riverlands and Lady Stoneheart, not her, so she's not gonna kill the Freys. Manderlys did the Frey Pies so more proof that Arya's further plot in the books wont involve what she did in the show. There is no Night King so Arya can't kill it. So everything between Arya leaving Braavos and sailing west in her final scene is not happening in the books, her plot in season 6-8 s basically fanfiction. We don't know what her endgame will be so I am very interested for the books. 

Bran became king. Okay this I can not see happening at this point, but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen, okay. But again, his road there is going to be different, because his story in season 6-8 can not happen in the books. It is established in ADWD that Bran needs weirwood trees to look in the past - there aren't any in Dornish mountains. The whole "learning about R+L=J" cannot be Bran's thing, it has to come from somewhere else - perhaps from Aero's chapter since he's going to deal with a Dayne. Since there is no Night King, the whole "I'm the memory of this world and he wants to erase it" bullshit won't happen either. We are likely gonna learn a lot about the Others through him, but everything the White walkers are in the show they won't be in the books. They can't be a bioweapon made by the children since the Others came after the war between humans and the children. Bran's story is going to be sooooo different in the books and since it's going to be so different I guess when he eventually does become king, it would make some goddamn sense, unlike in the show.

Tyrion ended as the hand of the king. Ok, so he also lives - good to know! In the books he still hasn't met Dany. We know his awful "I drink and know things" ruling in Mereen is not going to happen in the books, so mark season 6 of Tyrion's story as fanfiction. He could however become Dany's hand and he could organize Dany's conquest of Westeros like he does in season 7. But thankfully, in the noverls, he is Tyrion the Imp, not Saint Tyrion the Whore Romancer so I assume it will be very fun to read him advising Dany. IF that ever happens of course, since he hasn't even met her. ..

 

For Sansa, I have an uncomfortable feeling that Harry Hardyng will rape her, since Ramsay has replaced him as Sansa’s intended.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 8/23/2019 at 4:12 PM, Angel Eyes said:

For Sansa, I have an uncomfortable feeling that Harry Hardyng will rape her, since Ramsay has replaced him as Sansa’s intended.

Why are people so obsessed with Sansa being raped?

On 8/12/2019 at 12:40 PM, Tyrion1991 said:

Yes. Because it’s revealed that George intends to hurl Dany under the bus to make irrelevant thematic points whilst elevating two of his worst characters. It’s pure hypocrisy.

So Bran pursues his destiny and is rewarded with God powers and is made King? The Nerd in the Chair? Whilst Dany pursues her destiny and it’s all foolish hubris and madness. Really George? As a guy, if George wants to challenge a male power fantasy this is a very unusual way to do it.  

Oh but then there’s also the good boy who manages to screw up another relationship forcing him to get her killed. Are we advocating murder as a way of sorting out relationship problems? Only a weak man chooses. Maester Aemon was a bitter old man and his views can’t be taken seriously. Because the most heroic thing a man can do is to kill the woman he lives (Starscream voice). 

But the Starks can kill as many people as they want to take their house with the red door back. But Dany doing it as abominable act of Chaos that can only lead to doom. Pursuit of power is bad. So bad unless you have wolfsblood and are the Kings of Winter. Who can neatly kill all the bad people without any bad light being cast on it.

 

Daenerys used her dragons to massacre people for her rights to Westeros, is a warmonger and wants to enforce her will on people who don't want her for a queen whatever her good intentions

Bran doesn't use his powers against the people and he's pretty pacifistic in comparison to Daenerys. He becomes king via election rather than war.

Daenerys is war and tyranny

Bran is peace and choice

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Why are people so obsessed with Sansa being raped?

Daenerys used her dragons to massacre people for her rights to Westeros, is a warmonger and wants to enforce her will on people who don't want her for a queen whatever her good intentions

Bran doesn't use his powers against the people and he's pretty pacifistic in comparison to Daenerys. He becomes king via election rather than war.

Daenerys is war and tyranny

Bran is peace and choice

Bran would not have become king had Daenerys not eliminated his enemies, by using violence.

I dislike the implication that Dany's job was simply to eliminate the White Walkers and Cersei just so that the Starks could inherit the Earth.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Dany pulled a Joffrey, and Jon pulled an Olenna. Dany wanted to play game of thrones and she lost because her flaws are pretty clear. She killed thousands of people without remorse. She acts entitled and selfish. Anything that looks sacrificial is suspect. For example, you can tell she doesn't really care about the North and was only helping out because she wanted to fuck Jon, and because her dragon died. 

She sounded and looked more and more like Viserys as the series went on.

9 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Daenerys is war and tyranny

Bran is peace and choice

True, Bran didn't care if the North was independent

[Nagini's Neville]

I mean, I just can't imagine, that they would completely make up such a big thing. Especially because George has said, he doesn't think the show ending will differ that much from the book ending, when the  main characters are concerned. I think almost everything can be okay, if told the right way. The difference is in the details. 

IMO Jon just should die too though, if he kills Dany.  And there has to be a really good plot around it all- something that would really makes sense. The whole Azor Ahai prophecy is really annoying to me- it's pretty misogynistic. So I hope hope, if it really happens there'll be a spin on it.

[Amris]

Yes. The show did have a negative effect on how I view the books. 

It is all well and good to say books and show are two different things. "The show is the show, the books are the books etc." Sounds like whishful thinking. Whistling in the dark if you ask me.

That's because it ignores the inconvenient fact that the show is based on the books and that it has been stated by the showrunners (and half confirmed and definitely not denied by Martin) that both end the same way. So the horrible ending we got in the show is what the book series would have given us too it if had ever been finished.

[Sand11751]

30 years from now, I'll be waiting for how ya'll say the books ended before I decide if I want to read them. From the library. If the 2 novels end up in the same place - Dany and Jaime's character arcs ripped to shreds, Cersei dying by anyone's hand except her twin, King Bran causewhythefucknot, and R+L=J not having meant a goddamn thing - sure I'll have long found some truly entertaining series to read. 

[Prince_Of_SummerIsles]

I watched the series then got into the books due to the horrible/rushed ending. If anything the books have only ruined what I thought of the TV adaption. 

Tons of elements present in the books that make the series what it is were lost/discarded. 

 

[GoldenGail3]

No bc I never watched season 8 and saved myself trouble lol.