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Do you feel this show had any negative effect on how you view the books?

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If Jon's conflict is just, family vs. romantic love, I am bored already zzzzzzz

Especially if it comes after Dany being Azor Ahai the destroyer (which will 100% happen and needs to happen).

It's basically "my family won't kneel to my very obviously shitty girlfriend, and I am sad." 

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OP 

I think foreknowledge that we get a perfect Stark ending ruins the series for me.

I simply did not start reading the books or continue reading them because of “King of the Nurth!!!” and definitely not for all the Nights Watch stuff. I was aware that George was heavily romanticising all that stuff, but it’s minimalised over the series because Arya and Sansa are doing their own thing in the South. Bran has so few chapters as well. You don’t feel overwhelmed by the Starks, especially by ACOK onwards.

So the fact that actually, it is building up towards them shunting aside all the Targaryen, Baratheon, Greyjoy and Lannister characters for the Starks is bad news. The GoT being reduced to magic Bran being awesome sauce apparently. It’s literally George letting me know in advance that the parts of the story I despise are going to take precedence in the ending. 

To take an example. I am not sure how Jorahs story will play out in the books. In my head there’s a lot of cool things George could do with that character. For example he might reconnect with Lynesse Hightower in the books. But, if I know that George is obsessed with all the Northern nonsense then he probably is going to have Jorah take the Black like his father wanted. Which is the single worst ending for that character I could imagine because he’s already paid the price for his sins a hundred times over. Never mind that I can’t imagine book Jorah not killing Jon Snow after he murders Daenerys. But, I ve been told Jon goes North of the wall so George will probably explain that little firecracker away. 

 

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6 hours ago, T and A said:

It has definitively changed the way, how I view the books. 

Same here. Would TWOW be published tomorrow I'm not sure I'd purchase it until I know about its content. There's something stinky in that can of worms (book unfinished, rights sold to a pair of clowns, show that ends in a shitty apotheosis, etc.)

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10 hours ago, random girl from westeros said:

Do you have a quote of this? It's been a while since  I read the books. 

It’s from a TWOW sample chapter(just remember that Euron is just a stand-in for Bran since he thinks this all meant for him): 

"The bleeding star bespoke the end," he said to Aeron. "These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits." Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.”

......

“Why would I want that hard black rock? Brother, look again and see where I am seated.”

Aeron Damphair looked. The mound of skulls was gone. Now it was metal underneath the Crow’s Eye: a great, tall, twisted seat of razor sharp iron, barbs and blades and broken swords, all dripping blood.

Impaled upon the longer spikes were the bodies of the gods. The Maiden was there and the Father and the Mother, the Warrior and Crone and Smith … even the Stranger. They hung side by side with all manner of queer foreign gods: the Great Shepherd and the Black Goat, three-headed Trios and the Pale Child Bakkalon, the Lord of Light and the butterfly god of Naath.

And there, swollen and green, half-devoured by crabs, the Drowned God festered with the rest, seawater still dripping from his hair.

——————

 

So here we have Euron announcing that red comet is foreshadowing the rise of a god who becomes king and is worshipped hence all the Gods (sans the Old Gods) being impaled by the Iron Throne. There is but one god and his name.....is Bran.

And in AGOT, we see Bran as the red comet: 

 

Bran looked down, and felt his insides turn to water. The ground was rushing up at him now. The whole world was spread out below him, a tapestry of white and brown and green. He could see everything so clearly that for a moment he forgot to be afraid. He could see the whole realm, and everyone in it.
 
He saw Winterfell as the eagles see it, the tall towers looking squat and stubby from above, the castle walls just lines in the dirt. He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book. He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand. He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken's forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay. At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.
 
He looked east, and saw a galley racing across the waters of the Bite. He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as the rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned across a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they could not see it.
 
He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.
 
Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.
 
———————
 
The World Ice and Fire sets up a God-Emperor as the ending as well. The God-on-Earth who reigned for over ten thousand years is foreshadowing.

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2 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

OP 

I think foreknowledge that we get a perfect Stark ending ruins the series for me.

I simply did not start reading the books or continue reading them because of “King of the Nurth!!!” and definitely not for all the Nights Watch stuff. I was aware that George was heavily romanticising all that stuff, but it’s minimalised over the series because Arya and Sansa are doing their own thing in the South. Bran has so few chapters as well. You don’t feel overwhelmed by the Starks, especially by ACOK onwards.

So the fact that actually, it is building up towards them shunting aside all the Targaryen, Baratheon, Greyjoy and Lannister characters for the Starks is bad news. The GoT being reduced to magic Bran being awesome sauce apparently. It’s literally George letting me know in advance that the parts of the story I despise are going to take precedence in the ending. 

To take an example. I am not sure how Jorahs story will play out in the books. In my head there’s a lot of cool things George could do with that character. For example he might reconnect with Lynesse Hightower in the books. But, if I know that George is obsessed with all the Northern nonsense then he probably is going to have Jorah take the Black like his father wanted. Which is the single worst ending for that character I could imagine because he’s already paid the price for his sins a hundred times over. Never mind that I can’t imagine book Jorah not killing Jon Snow after he murders Daenerys. But, I ve been told Jon goes North of the wall so George will probably explain that little firecracker away. 

 

Jorah’s a really shitty Nice Guy in the books. Dude, straight up knocks out Tyrion’s tooth with a backhand steel glove to the face because he dared talk back to him.

i don’t think the Targaryens are going to be shunted aside until the end where they collapse after they saving the world. Lannisters will stay relevant to the end at least because Tyrion is Hand.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

It’s from a TWOW sample chapter(just remember that Euron is just a stand-in for Bran since he thinks this all meant for him): 

"The bleeding star bespoke the end," he said to Aeron. "These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits." Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.”

......

“Why would I want that hard black rock? Brother, look again and see where I am seated.”

Aeron Damphair looked. The mound of skulls was gone. Now it was metal underneath the Crow’s Eye: a great, tall, twisted seat of razor sharp iron, barbs and blades and broken swords, all dripping blood.

Impaled upon the longer spikes were the bodies of the gods. The Maiden was there and the Father and the Mother, the Warrior and Crone and Smith … even the Stranger. They hung side by side with all manner of queer foreign gods: the Great Shepherd and the Black Goat, three-headed Trios and the Pale Child Bakkalon, the Lord of Light and the butterfly god of Naath.

And there, swollen and green, half-devoured by crabs, the Drowned God festered with the rest, seawater still dripping from his hair.

——————

 

So here we have Euron announcing that red comet is foreshadowing the rise of a god who becomes king and is worshipped hence all the Gods (sans the Old Gods) being impaled by the Iron Throne. There is but one god and his name.....is Bran.

And in AGOT, we see Bran as the red comet: 

 

Bran looked down, and felt his insides turn to water. The ground was rushing up at him now. The whole world was spread out below him, a tapestry of white and brown and green. He could see everything so clearly that for a moment he forgot to be afraid. He could see the whole realm, and everyone in it.
 
He saw Winterfell as the eagles see it, the tall towers looking squat and stubby from above, the castle walls just lines in the dirt. He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book. He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand. He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken's forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay. At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.
 
He looked east, and saw a galley racing across the waters of the Bite. He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as the rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned across a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they could not see it.
 
He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.
 
Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.
 
———————
 
The World Ice and Fire sets up a God-Emperor as the ending as well. The God-on-Earth who reigned for over ten thousand years is foreshadowing.

I haven't read any of the chapters from TWOW yet. Thank you. 

So Bran will become a God King. Nice. For ten thousand years.  

But he said that gods will not appear in the series:

 I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. So the relation between the religions and the various magics that some people have here is something that the reader can try to puzzle out.

Here is the link: https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-explains-why-well-never-meet-any-god-5822939

If this is the ending I think I will not continue reading even if the way of GRRM writes it makes more sense than in the TV show

It has little faith in humanity. For a series of books which the main theme is the battle of the human heart ending it with a God-Emperor who will rule the world leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. It's even hypocritical, meaning that the author doesn't think that human beings are capable of growing and improvements and evolve into better beings.

It's even fatalist if you think about it.  Is the human race to peril unless a God is in charge? Coming from a self-proclaimed agnostic. It's a terrifying thought. 

 

Edited by random girl from westeros

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Jorah’s a really shitty Nice Guy in the books. Dude, straight up knocks out Tyrion’s tooth with a backhand steel glove to the face because he dared talk back to him.

i don’t think the Targaryens are going to be shunted aside until the end where they collapse after they saving the world. Lannisters will stay relevant to the end at least because Tyrion is Hand.

 

Which balances out his better traits. Plus Tyrion had it coming as he had been insufferable for the entire book. He’s the last man to judge somebody on not being perfect or refusing to hear hard truths. Tyrion goes on a tirade goading him by saying that Dany is going to kill him. Subtle.

Because currently the Starks aren’t too central. In order to make that ending work he would have to massively increase their role and centrality in the final two books. This would alter the story significantly, especially if it’s mostly to push the NK or magical aspects of the story. Essentially not what I’ve been reading or signed up for.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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No. The books are still great. I do believe the ending will be generally the same. The show ending was good and just needed more time to flesh it out a bit which won't be a problem for the books. I'm not a huge fan of Bran as King but it's not that bad.

The show was awesome untill season 5 and after that it was still a great show, just not as good as it had been. I'll still rewatch the show because I still love it and I'll re-read the books and continue to wait for TWoW and ADoS to see how GRRM ends it himself.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2019 at 6:13 PM, KingMudd said:

 The show ending was good

 I guess Ep6 may seem "good" if you have the ability to put your brain on standby for 1h30. After all, putting brains on standby is one of the goals of television. Except that GoT did exactly the opposite until the showrunners were left to their own devices.

Edited by Nowy Tends

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47 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

 I guess Ep6 may seem "good" if you have the ability to put your brain on standby for 1h30. After all, putting brains on standby is one of the goals of television. Except that GoT did exactly the opposite until the showrunners were left to their own devices.

I see you have only quoted half of what I actually said, it was a good ending but needed more time.

That's your opinion and I've stated my opinion. I didn't need to put my brain on standby to enjoy it. I saw the flaws and chose to just enjoy it for what it was. I don't see why you feel the need to tell me that my opinion is wrong and try to insult people who enjoyed the ending.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2019 at 8:47 PM, Nowy Tends said:

Would TWOW be published tomorrow I'm not sure I'd purchase it until I know about its content

Don't you know the books are way different than the abomination? d&d quit on this story because they were ready and eagar to destroy Star Wars. 

I am, and always will be, a ASOIAF fan!

Edited by the Other Wolf
Grammar

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40 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

Don't you know the books are way different than the abomination?

Of course I know. But I tend to think that Dumb&Dumber aren't the only ones responsible for this intellectual, if not commercial, shipwreck.

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50 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

Don't you know the books are way different than the abomination? d&d quit on this story because they were ready and eagar to destroy Star Wars. 

I am, and always will be, a ASOIAF fan!

I don t think that we can just ignore how bad the ending was and think that grrm will do something much better… A lot of the things in the show must come from grrm...

 

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1 minute ago, divica said:

A lot of the things in the show must come from grrm...

By the time d&d got to S8 (or more realistically S6) they abandoned a lot from GRRMs outline. It became 2 different stories after Jon gets knifed (end of dance).  Hell, it became a different story after S1.

I could be fine with the ending if they explained it and didn't change [email protected] just for surprise sake.  Even GRRM wanted 10 seasons, but d&d rushed it for star wars. We WILL get a better story with the books! 

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14 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

If you are a book fan, there is NO argument. 

:cheers:

What a load of bullshit. If you think the books are ending differently you have a shock coming. GRRM has said they end the same. The books will have more detail but the outcome will be the same.

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2 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

What a load of bullshit. If you think the books are ending differently you have a shock coming. GRRM has said they end the same. The books will have more detail but the outcome will be the same.

They are different stories. You clearly have NO clue. All GRRM has said in regards to it ending the same is who sits the iron throne.  I could then argue there is NO iron throne.  Or maybe Bran does. Either way, THEY ARE DIFFERENT, read them and you will know for yourself.  

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6 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

GRRM has said they end the same.

Oh....

GRRM said Arya kills the NK?

There is No Night King!!! But they are the same...

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14 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

They are different stories. You clearly have NO clue. All GRRM has said in regards to it ending the same is who sits the iron throne.  I could then argue there is NO iron throne.  Or maybe Bran does. Either way, THEY ARE DIFFERENT, read them and you will know for yourself.  

 

12 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

Oh....

GRRM said Arya kills the NK?

There is No Night King!!! But they are the same...

Yeah keep telling yourself that. I've read all the books he's released. GRRM has said the endings will be the same but whatever man I don't really care if you believe that or not.

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38 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

GRRM has said the endings will be the same but whatever man

Link please...

He has only said what I have stated.

 

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