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Jon and Val


WingZero

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe Val is the one time Jon chooses love over duty and it leads to disaster?

If Jon’s arc is seriously falling in love with 3 different girls only for all of them to be a danger/crazy so he has to leave/kill them, then that’s poor writing.

Cant just rehash the same plot over and over. Dany being Ygritte 2.0 is already bad enough (tho I sincerely doubt their book relationship will play out the way the show went down).

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1 hour ago, King Wyman said:

Maybe Val is the one time Jon chooses love over duty and it leads to disaster?

If Jon’s arc is seriously falling in love with 3 different girls only for all of them to be a danger/crazy so he has to leave/kill them, then that’s poor writing.

Cant just rehash the same plot over and over. Dany being Ygritte 2.0 is already bad enough (tho I sincerely doubt their book relationship will play out the way the show went down).

Isn't choosing love over duty why he got stabbed in the books?

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5 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Isn't choosing love over duty why he got stabbed in the books?

I guess it could be rationalized like that after his “gotta save Arya” promo.

But I always felt his conspirators made their decision before they knew he was going to do that, and they just took advantage of the opportunity. 

But that could def be how he sees it when he comes back. 

Maybe Val will help Mel burn Shireen then?

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On 5/28/2019 at 3:05 PM, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Isn't choosing love over duty why he got stabbed in the books?

Love of who or what tho? Please pardon me if I confuse the books & show (been a while since i read them) but seems to me his problems came not from love but from disagreeing on the nature of his duty. He argued that protecting the 'realms of men' included the Wildlings, that the true enemy was the Others. It didn't appear to be driven by love of any one individual that I recall. 

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3 hours ago, Rory Snow said:

Love of who or what tho? Please pardon me if I confuse the books & show (been a while since i read them) but seems to me his problems came not from love but from disagreeing on the nature of his duty. He argued that protecting the 'realms of men' included the Wildlings, that the true enemy was the Others. It didn't appear to be driven by love of any one individual that I recall. 

His love for his sister. He's in turmoil. He torments himself thinking about Ramsey in bed with her and how he hopes she will stab him but it could get her killed. He sends Mance into Winterfell to get her out. All the time not knowing its not really his sister. 

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Jon felt as stiff as a man of sixty years. Dark dreams, he thought, and guilt. His thoughts kept returning to Arya. There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart. 

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Jon Snow sank to one knee in the snow. Gods of my fathers, protect these men. And Arya too, my little sister, wherever she might be. I pray you, let Mance find her and bring her safe to me.

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Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back  I want mybride back  I want my bride back 
"I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said.

 

That is the reason Alys exists in the books, to have an ever present reminder of Arya to Jon and what he thinks she is enduring. All leading up to the moment he decides to march on Winterfell and gets 'For the Watch-d'

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Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …

 

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11 hours ago, Rory Snow said:

Love of who or what tho? Please pardon me if I confuse the books & show (been a while since i read them) but seems to me his problems came not from love but from disagreeing on the nature of his duty. He argued that protecting the 'realms of men' included the Wildlings, that the true enemy was the Others. It didn't appear to be driven by love of any one individual that I recall. 

The mutiny at Castle Black was for a host of reasons, but ultimately the reason Marsh and the others acted was to stop the Great Ranging to Hardhome, fearful of losing a large percentage of the remaining manpower in the Watch along with Jon's cooperation with Wildlings and Stannis.

Jon foolishly announcing his intentions in the Shield Hall merely gave the conspirators a convenient excuse.

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On 5/20/2019 at 6:20 AM, WingZero said:

Based on Jons ending, it really makes sense now Jon ends up with Val in the books. 

would be a nice, although I've lost hope any character will find love/companionship by the end in the books.

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