Jump to content
Johan Wehtje

West of Westeros: The Voyages of A. Stark

Recommended Posts

On 5/20/2019 at 2:31 PM, tallTale said:

Maybe she'll take the long way and eventually get there.

We know very little about GoT planet, beyond that (based on irregularity of seasons) it's orbit in relation to it's sun is seriously weird. Given how far it is to Asshai from Westeros travelling Eastwards, going West could be a massive shortcut, as was originally intended by Colombus (provided that, unlike Colombus, she doesn't find a pesky undiscovred continent in the way). 

That's even assuming it's a spherical planet, of course for all we know, it could be a 'discworld' and she falls off the edge :) 

Incidentally, the GoT world is supposed to mimic medieval Europe, and while most commoners at the time might have thought the world was flat (or didn't care either way), scholars knew it was a globe, which was known since the time of the Greeks*. I would hazard a guess that the maesters at least should know it was a globe if it WAS a globe. 

*Incidentally, one of those Greek chaps (I forget the name) had calculated the circumference of the Earth pretty accurately using nothing more than the length of the shadow of a stick at a given distance from a known point on the equator (known because no shadow is cast at noon by a vertical stick), and some basic trigonometry. So Colombus should have known how far India or even China was travelling west from Spain i.e. far further than his supplies would ever have lasted. So he got really lucky to find America in the way!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES

It's a medieval world and the justice systems there seems to be arbitrary at best. Very many characters commit crimes or at least questionable actions without consequences. This is very realistic in a medieval setting, particularly in war time.

Personal consequences are portrayed for Arya, too: Callousness and focusing on a path of revenge and hatred, loss of joy and other worthwhile perspectives in live. After she learned from Hotpie she still has family in Winterfell she is on a path back, but never really reaches her inner peace. The Sandor/Arya farewell in E5 is her turning point to seek more worthwhile things to live for, but still she is adventurous and not a homely girl. That makes a lot of sense to me.

5 hours ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

None of this callousness you mention comes across in the performance of the character.

It does. She is unable to live out romance with Gendry, she is unable to enjoy the wake feast, returning to training instead. The show is rushed, we all agree on it, but there are scenes that point into that direction. Her chats with The Hound and Beric. In earlier seasons they portrayed quite well her sleepness night, how vengeance and hatred is a good-enough motivation to go on.

5 hours ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

No one watching the show would ever question whether they would like to be like Arya.

Well, she endured a lot of hardship. Most people wouldn't want that. Most people think about the positive bad-ass side, not about the horrors she went through.

5 hours ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Super bad-ass, powerful, unflinching, loyal.

Some might do so, yes. Some misunderstood Daenerys as well. Some didn't see the tragic hero in Jon all the time. That's the way it is.

The show has ended and Arya got the turnaround to a certain degree. She still is the adventurer, but all the hardships are now part of her and will be so forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2019 at 1:07 PM, anjulibai said:

She's dead. 

I wonder how she got the gold to pay for that crew to go with her. 

She has two sibling monarchs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2019 at 4:35 AM, Kajjo said:

<snip>

By the way, killing Meryn Trant is just a brutal action, but he well deserved it. Arya is a killer and she does well. I have no issues with that. The takes out who wronged and her dear ones. I can fully understand that.

Regarding the often mentioned "Frey pie", please be reminded that this refers to the legend "Rat Cook" about broken guest right and Arya knows her literature. This fits so well. Don't make this to a core of her character, but see and understand the legend. The show recounts the legend through Bran in S3 and Arya re-enacts it in S6.

"Know[ing] her literature" is a fine justification for cooking human remains into a pie.

And she didn't just kill Meryn Trant. She clearly took pleasure in tormenting and mutilating him. That was no clean kill.

Arya's obsession with death during her adolescent and early teen-age years is not a road that can be turned back from. Her self-sufficiency kept her alive, but now it keeps her isolated as well. 

Even when she was united with her siblings back in Winterfell, she never looked particularly pleased to be there or even to be with her siblings. She never wanted to talk with them about what was on her mind; certainly never wanted to tell her story and never did so even vaguely. 

I don't see a happy future for the insular girl with so many kills already under her belt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

She clearly took pleasure in tormenting and mutilating him. That was no clean kill.

Yes, I agree. So what?! What is your problem with vengeance after experiencing so much traumatic hardship as young girl?!

1 minute ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Arya's obsession with death during her adolescent and early teen-age years is not a road that can be turned back from.

Why not? How you know?

2 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Her self-sufficiency kept her alive, but now it keeps her isolated as well. 

That's somehow true. She got a turning point in the Sandor/Arya farewell scene, but in the finale we see her leaving for good. She is on her own and that seems to be fine with her. So what?

3 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

I don't see a happy future for the insular girl with so many kills already under her belt.

Different people are happy for different reasons. If she experiences nice adventures she might find a happy life, even sexual partners and a group to trust.

"Many kills" is not what hinders you from being happy. Her isolation might be a problem, but maybe she is happy as a loner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, I always sympathized with her journey, but she became a student, devotee and master of death during her formative years. And now she's a loner who can barely even relate to her own family. She rejected Gendry and her only other friend just died killing his brother. It does not seem realistic to expect a person like that to become a happy, well-adjusted adult. 

And the supposed solution they've found--an extremely dangerous occupation that requires numerous finely-honed skills, NONE of which she has been shown to have even an inkling of? Doesn't pass the laugh test, or at least it doesn't for me.

But then again I see Arya as a teen-age girl, not as some kind of cartoon superhero, so maybe I just missed the boat on this show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

She rejected Gendry

So what? She didn't want to be "Lady of Something", at no time in her life so far. He shouldn't have asked her in such a stupid way. Gendry did not understand Arya at all.

20 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

her only other friend just died killing his brother.

Well, that Sandor/Arya scene is a turning point for her, because she evidently got that she needs to leave the path of vengeance and get some meaning into her life. Going on adventures and discovery fits her character.

21 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

numerous finely-honed skills

Come one, don't overdo it. It's a medieval world of sailing and the has a competent crew. Of course they can sail West and discover new land -- if there is any. It's an open end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

As I said, I always sympathized with her journey, but she became a student, devotee and master of death during her formative years. And now she's a loner who can barely even relate to her own family. She rejected Gendry and her only other friend just died killing his brother. It does not seem realistic to expect a person like that to become a happy, well-adjusted adult. 

And the supposed solution they've found--an extremely dangerous occupation that requires numerous finely-honed skills, NONE of which she has been shown to have even an inkling of? Doesn't pass the laugh test, or at least it doesn't for me.

But then again I see Arya as a teen-age girl, not as some kind of cartoon superhero, so maybe I just missed the boat on this show.

Arya has always had a talent for survival, even before she had mad assassin skills, so it's not outside believability that if anyone can survive exploring 'west of Westeros' it would be Arya Stark.  My issues with this is that the show gives no explanation for why, after her years of searching and finally reunited w/her family, she decides to chuck it all and go on another high risk venture.  Did she decide she doesn't want to deal with snarky Queen Sansa?  Why not stay in KL and protect her brother?  She's certainly got the skills for it now.  Why not go with Jon to the North?  Why leave every family member and strike off alone?  The show needed to give some explanation here, even if it would have been a sadder story than Arya triumphant on a ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

<snip> Come one, don't overdo it. It's a medieval world of sailing and the has a competent crew. Of course they can sail West and discover new land -- if there is any. It's an open end.

You keep telling people to just go along for the ride on this one. I'm not, it's a ridiculous ending. I want this stuff to make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

You keep telling people to just go along for the ride on this one. I'm not, it's a ridiculous ending. I want this stuff to make sense.

What you do is moaning. The show is finished. It won't change. I explain how it is meant to be understood. 

We will see (hopefully) how the books closes the arc of Arya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/20/2019 at 9:06 PM, EProduc said:

Well obviously there would be an America-like continent. Essos resembles Asia/The Middle East in many ways and Westeros resembles the UK/Europe. 

Well, obviously not!

In the far west from Planetos will be exactly that what the God who createt Planetos wanted to be there!

So you have to ask Martin...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2019 at 4:59 PM, Cas Stark said:

Arya has always had a talent for survival, even before she had mad assassin skills, so it's not outside believability that if anyone can survive exploring 'west of Westeros' it would be Arya Stark.  My issues with this is that the show gives no explanation for why, after her years of searching and finally reunited w/her family, she decides to chuck it all and go on another high risk venture.  Did she decide she doesn't want to deal with snarky Queen Sansa?  Why not stay in KL and protect her brother?  She's certainly got the skills for it now.  Why not go with Jon to the North?  Why leave every family member and strike off alone?  The show needed to give some explanation here, even if it would have been a sadder story than Arya triumphant on a ship.

I always imagined Arya's story ending up far worse, so I do think she got as happy an ending as she could hope for.

I thought she'd finish up like Pretty Meris, the Tattered Prince's torturer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe Arya can go all the way West to Westworld...Japanworld or 'The Raj' would be nice destinations for her to meet her end in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/19/2019 at 7:30 AM, SeanF said:

I always imagined Arya's story ending up far worse, so I do think she got as happy an ending as she could hope for.

I thought she'd finish up like Pretty Meris, the Tattered Prince's torturer.

 

I'm content that she doesn't die, and since I doubt GRRM ever writes the last book, it's the only ending I expect to see.  But, the show knows what George has told them about her ending, which I presume would include her reasons for leaving again after spending so much time and blood to protect her family, on some level, her departure makes no sense unless she decided ultimately to not be a Stark after all.  Why leave Bran? Why leave Jon? Why leave Winterfell?  Why Why Why? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved Arya's ending.  I think after all was said and done, that she was empty.  Perhaps she didn't feel like Arya Stark any longer or didn't know who Arya Stark is/was/will be.  A chance at self discovery. At personal renewal through an adventure doing something that in the past peeked her interest?  Yes!  So much so!  I think Arya on her voyage has the world at her feet.  I think she will survive. I think she will thrive.  I believe she will return to both Winterfell and to the far north wherever Jon is located.  When all surviving Starks have departed from their stories, Arya will endure.  To me, she will end up as "The Last Stark". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2019 at 10:51 PM, hokie3457 said:

I loved Arya's ending.  I think after all was said and done, that she was empty.  Perhaps she didn't feel like Arya Stark any longer or didn't know who Arya Stark is/was/will be.  A chance at self discovery. At personal renewal through an adventure doing something that in the past peeked her interest?  Yes!  So much so!  I think Arya on her voyage has the world at her feet.  I think she will survive. I think she will thrive.  I believe she will return to both Winterfell and to the far north wherever Jon is located.  When all surviving Starks have departed from their stories, Arya will endure.  To me, she will end up as "The Last Stark". 

Yes, I mostly share your understanding of Arya's arc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2019 at 9:51 PM, hokie3457 said:

I loved Arya's ending.  I think after all was said and done, that she was empty.  Perhaps she didn't feel like Arya Stark any longer or didn't know who Arya Stark is/was/will be.  A chance at self discovery. At personal renewal through an adventure doing something that in the past peeked her interest?  Yes!  So much so!  I think Arya on her voyage has the world at her feet.  I think she will survive. I think she will thrive.  I believe she will return to both Winterfell and to the far north wherever Jon is located.  When all surviving Starks have departed from their stories, Arya will endure.  To me, she will end up as "The Last Stark". 

This doesn't ring true to me because of how her arc with the Faceless men ended. 'I am Arya Stark of Winterfell and I am going home'. Her journey to becoming no one only reinforced who she was. Its why she couldn't let go of Needle. There never seemed to me to be any question of self discovery, her proclamation was so powerful. What was the point of it otherwise?

Yet the story ends with her completely rejecting that and disappearing. How did we get there? I have no clue. 

The script for 6 confirms my suspicions that she's never intended to come back. I mean, she said that in episode 4. It feels to me like her whole arc was made worthless. She leaves home, her dad is killed and she embarks on a long journey to get back. She gets back, decides she doesn't actually care and pisses off god knows were. What was the journey for? Why have we watched this? Where is the resolution?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 2 huge elephants in the room are:

a) Like someone just before said, Arya came to the conclusion she is Arya Stark. She did that in the show and her show one decided to take upon her to revenge the Starks and all that. SHE IS A STARK. So….that seems to be what she cares for and what she wants. Which makes it quite strange that she just goes away once all that is achieved and secured. 

b) With Bran there, she can just ask Bran what is there on the West side of Westeros. I guess Bran should have an idea. If he does not, he can just warg some animals and find out. No need to risk Arya. Which brings the question: why the hell do they allow and even finance her idea? Either Bran knows what´s there and its all good, so its not a big adventure. Or its a very dangerous adventure and one from which she may never return. Why would her siblings finance that? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I can kind of understand Bran just shrugging but the Crown is Bankrupt. Littlefinger, Cersei and the wars have drained the treasury. Plus one of the few cities in Westeros has been destroyed. Bran is not rolling in it. The North similarly has lost pretty much its whole army and food supplies. In the books it cost Farman 3 priceless dragon eggs to get a crew and a ship. How would Arya know what ship to get? How would she know who to hire? The end of the show is her with maps, picking up a telescope. Arya does not know how to navigate at sea. And if it were the case she hired someone, well why isn't she with this person in the map room? Why is she at the prow as if she's in control. If that voyage goes badly, how exactly can she command the boat?

I wonder if the Farman stuff was George's version of the GOT ending done more realistically. This woman spent her whole life sailing, she sailed around Westeros and to the free cities. West of westeros was her dream. Arya had a passing thought and no skill to undertake the endeavour. I highly doubt he would give Arya a second hand ending.

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×