Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Erkan12

The vision in House of the Undying was real

Recommended Posts

I wrote this one week ago;

 

So this was the real goal and foreshadowed since Season 2. Jon was the chosen one in this story, and he stops the Dragon Queen or Queen of Ashes, what do you guys think of this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, I am sure they had a working idea of that Dany gets close to the throne but doesn't make it.

I think this has been talked about on this forum since that episode. It wasn't very surprising.

But no one suspected she would suddenly become a mad tyrant because bells make her angry or in the words of D&D "Seeing the Red Keep made it personal" .... whatever that means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, at least they got this vision of the "House of the Undying" right. 

He is almost at the throne and then Jon comes in and kills her. That's well done for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Well, at least they got this vision of the "House of the Undying" right. 

He is almost at the throne and then Jon comes in and kills her. That's well done for me. 

Agree, and her passing through the door to see Drogo and her son meant she died the moment she got close to the throne.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Greenmonsterff said:

Very inconsistent with visions and prophecies. No valanqor. Who was the third head of the dragon? PTWP? 

There never was a valonqar prophecy in the show. There was no prophecy about the Promised Prince. In the show-version, when Dany had a vision in The House of the Undying, she didn't saw there Rhaegar. In the books it was Rhaegar, who said that the dragon has three heads. Those prophecies were not part of the show, so D&D had no obligations to follow those plot lines, and to make three dragonriders, or Tyrion/Jaime (valonqar/younger brother) killing Cersei, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Megorova said:

There was no prophecy about the Promised Prince.

You're correct that there was no Valonqar. But the Prince Who was Promised/Azor Ahai was brought up many times in the show. Even bringing up the whole gender neutral thing to make it fit Dany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

You're correct that there was no Valonqar. But the Prince Who was Promised/Azor Ahai was brought up many times in the show. Even bringing up the whole gender neutral thing to make it fit Dany.

Azor Ahai put a sword in the heart of the woman he loved. Jon stuck a dagger in her heart. He's Azor Ahai, the PtwP (and the latter talks about a 'prince' not a 'king')

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

But the Prince Who was Promised/Azor Ahai was brought up many times in the show. Even bringing up the whole gender neutral thing to make it fit Dany.

Though the prophecy was not the same as in the books. First of all, there was no Lightbringer-sword. Show-Stannis didn't had a fake burning sword (though, maybe, I misremembered this part). I'm absolutely sure, that there's an actual Lightbringer in the books, and it's Dawn of Daynes. For some reason D&D had also showed it in the scene of Lyanna's death, when she tells Ned that the baby's name is Aegon, Ned propped Dawn against Lyanna's bed. So D&D were using certain nods towards the books, but they were not following the same plot-lines as GRRM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Megorova said:

Though the prophecy was not the same as in the books. First of all, there was no Lightbringer-sword. Show-Stannis didn't had a fake burning sword (though, maybe, I misremembered this part). I'm absolutely sure, that there's an actual Lightbringer in the books, and it's Dawn of Daynes. For some reason D&D had also showed it in the scene of Lyanna's death, when she tells Ned that the baby's name is Aegon, Ned propped Dawn against Lyanna's bed. So D&D were using certain nods towards the books, but they were not following the same plot-lines as GRRM.

Season 2, Episode 1: Stanis had a fake burning sword.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Greenmonsterff said:

Very inconsistent with visions and prophecies. No valanqor. Who was the third head of the dragon? PTWP? 

Dany

Jon

Tyrion (possibly a Targaryean as a result of Mad King Aeyrs raping Joanna). Another reason Tywin hated Tyrions so much. Also explains his deformed nature. Also explains why he was able to get so close to the dragons in S5/6 (forget the season) where he walks right up to them in Mereen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Azor Ahai put a sword in the heart of the woman he loved. Jon stuck a dagger in her heart. He's Azor Ahai, the PtwP (and the latter talks about a 'prince' not a 'king')

I mean, Azor Ahai put a sword in the women he loved to form lightbringer to fight the darkness. Not just to randomly kill her. On top of that, is it ever explained in the show how lightbringer was forged? Or that AA stabbed Nissa Nissa? If not, then the connection in the show can't be made by the average viewer, which is the vast majority of show viewers (which isn't a bad thing, we who get really into the show are just in the minority is all.)

5 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Though the prophecy was not the same as in the books. First of all, there was no Lightbringer-sword. Show-Stannis didn't had a fake burning sword (though, maybe, I misremembered this part). I'm absolutely sure, that there's an actual Lightbringer in the books, and it's Dawn of Daynes. For some reason D&D had also showed it in the scene of Lyanna's death, when she tells Ned that the baby's name is Aegon, Ned propped Dawn against Lyanna's bed. So D&D were using certain nods towards the books, but they were not following the same plot-lines as GRRM. 

He did for like the first time we met him? I think in the show. Mel had him pull it out of one of the pyres of fire and called it lightbringer, but to be fair, they never harped on it in the show. Most show viewers, I assume, have no idea what lightbringer is and that's fine.

But regardless, TPTWP was brought up many times and kinda just abandoned. This isn't the first time random things were abandoned in the show, but they did seem to pick and choose prophecy and it makes you wonder why they never at least gave this one some closure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Azor Ahai put a sword in the heart of the woman he loved. Jon stuck a dagger in her heart. He's Azor Ahai, the PtwP (and the latter talks about a 'prince' not a 'king')

This. Its Jon. The darkness is both the Night King and later Dany once she goes mad she becomes the darkness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Dynas said:

This. Its Jon. The darkness is both the Night King and later Dany once she goes mad she becomes the darkness. 

And by killing Dany he forged "Lightbringer" (Drogon), because that made Drogon destroy the IT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, T and A said:

Season 2, Episode 1: Stanis had a fake burning sword.

Thanks for help. But the point is, is that in the show that burning sword was not something as important as in the books.

7 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

He did for like the first time we met him? I think in the show. Mel had him pull it out of one of the pyres of fire and called it lightbringer, but to be fair, they never harped on it in the show. Most show viewers, I assume, have no idea what lightbringer is and that's fine.

What I mean, is that D&D were using certain elements from the books, but those elements were more like homages to GRRM's Ice and Fire, not crucial key-points in the plot. D&D just introduced those elements, but didn't used them to build plot on them. I think that the reason for that, is that they wanted thru the show to reveal certain foreshadowings for the book-plot, but they couldn't use important plot-lines from the future two books, not to spoil them (Explanation below)

12 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

But regardless, TPTWP was brought up many times and kinda just abandoned. This isn't the first time random things were abandoned in the show, but they did seem to pick and choose prophecy and it makes you wonder why they never at least gave this one some closure.

In my opinion, D&D had to drop TPTWP plot-line, because in the show there was no (if my theory is correct, then it's a big BIG spoiler for further books ->)

Spoiler

Blackfyre-Pretenders, no Shiera Seastar, and Rhaego is, most likely, really died.

I think that in the book-version, Rhaego is alive, and the Three-Eyed Crow is Quaithe, who is also Shiera Seastar, she kidnapped him and brought him to Asshai (his kidnapping was treason for blood, not Mirri Maz Duur's). And Bran in his coma-dream, saw dragons at Asshai.

In my opinion, GRRM's ASOIAF is partially a parallel to The Book of Revelation, the last part of the Bible, about Apocalypse, and second coming of Jesus. Three heads of the dragon are GRRM's parallel to the Holy Trinity. Though he has The Mother, The Son, and the Holy Ghost instead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. And fAegon and Golden Company (and Varys) are parallel to Antichrist, the Beast out of the Sea, with seven heads, one of which was mortally wounded, and then healed itself. That Beast in the Bible had seven heads and ten horns, which means that five of those seven heads were horned, and two heads didn't had horns. Five horned heads in GRRM's version are five Blackfyres/dragonseeds that were captain-generals of Golden Company - Bittersteel, one of Blackfyres that headed GC after BS's death, Daemon Unnumbered, Maelys the Monstrous, fAegon; and two remaining heads, that didn't had horns are Myles Toyne and Harry Strickland, because they are not dragonseeds, so they had no horns; and GRRM's dragons (dragonseeds) have horns. In the Bible the Beast had seven heads, but also it had an eight head, that was one of them, and wasn't one of them; in GRRM's version that eight head is Varys, who is a Blackfyre (or Brightflame, or some other dragonseed). In the books Rhaego was supposed to become Khal of khals, and all people of the world were supposed to become his herd. Like Jesus in The Book of Revelation was called King of kings and Lord of lords, and the Great Shepherd that will lead all nations.

So in the books three heads of the dragon - Dany/Drogon, Rhaego/Rhaegal, Jon/Viserion are going to oppose fAegon, Golden Company, Varys, and Littlefinger (who is GRRM's parallel to the Beast out of the Earth, that has dragon's voice and lamb's horns - Littlefinger could be descendant of Aegon IV and Falena Stokeworth (there's a lamb on their sigil)).

And all of it was orchestrated by Shiera Seastar, who is GRRM's parallel to Morgana le Fay, water fairy Nimue (who lured wizard Merlin into a trap, and binded him to a magical tree in a cave; Shiera VS Bloodraven), and Irish deity Queen of Phantoms (GRRM's shadowbinder Quaithe) and Crow Goddes Morrigan.

That's why Shiera is the Three-Eyed Crow, and why there was the Three-Eyed Raven in the D&D's show. So book-Bran won't become next 3EC, and he won't become King of 6K or 7K. Because in the books, there was always only one three-eyed crow, and this title and this knowledge and powers don't pass from one person to the next one.

But D&D couldn't have used any of that in their show, because it would have spoiled GRRM's upcoming books. Thus they had to take whatever they could, and used only small bits and pieces, but overall plot, and the ending, and major battles, and the outcome of them, D&D had to make from scratch, without using GRRM's materials. And that's how we have now what we have <_< Though I'm Ok with how they ended the show. As a standalone story, separated from the books, it's not bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Thanks for help. But the point is, is that in the show that burning sword was not something as important as in the books.

What I mean, is that D&D were using certain elements from the books, but those elements were more like homages to GRRM's Ice and Fire, not crucial key-points in the plot. D&D just introduced those elements, but didn't used them to build plot on them. I think that the reason for that, is that they wanted thru the show to reveal certain foreshadowings for the book-plot, but they couldn't use important plot-lines from the future two books, not to spoil them (Explanation below)

In my opinion, D&D had to drop TPTWP plot-line, because in the show there was no (if my theory is correct, then it's a big BIG spoiler for further books ->)

  Hide contents

Blackfyre-Pretenders, no Shiera Seastar, and Rhaego is, most likely, really died.

I think that in the book-version, Rhaego is alive, and the Three-Eyed Crow is Quaithe, who is also Shiera Seastar, she kidnapped him and brought him to Asshai (his kidnapping was treason for blood, not Mirri Maz Duur's). And Bran in his coma-dream, saw dragons at Asshai.

In my opinion, GRRM's ASOIAF is partially a parallel to The Book of Revelation, the last part of the Bible, about Apocalypse, and second coming of Jesus. Three heads of the dragon are GRRM's parallel to the Holy Trinity. Though he has The Mother, The Son, and the Holy Ghost instead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. And fAegon and Golden Company (and Varys) are parallel to Antichrist, the Beast out of the Sea, with seven heads, one of which was mortally wounded, and then healed itself. That Beast in the Bible had seven heads and ten horns, which means that five of those seven heads were horned, and two heads didn't had horns. Five horned heads in GRRM's version are five Blackfyres/dragonseeds that were captain-generals of Golden Company - Bittersteel, one of Blackfyres that headed GC after BS's death, Daemon Unnumbered, Maelys the Monstrous, fAegon; and two remaining heads, that didn't had horns are Myles Toyne and Harry Strickland, because they are not dragonseeds, so they had no horns; and GRRM's dragons (dragonseeds) have horns. In the Bible the Beast had seven heads, but also it had an eight head, that was one of them, and wasn't one of them; in GRRM's version that eight head is Varys, who is a Blackfyre (or Brightflame, or some other dragonseed). In the books Rhaego was supposed to become Khal of khals, and all people of the world were supposed to become his herd. Like Jesus in The Book of Revelation was called King of kings and Lord of lords, and the Great Shepherd that will lead all nations.

So in the books three heads of the dragon - Dany/Drogon, Rhaego/Rhaegal, Jon/Viserion are going to oppose fAegon, Golden Company, Varys, and Littlefinger (who is GRRM's parallel to the Beast out of the Earth, that has dragon's voice and lamb's horns - Littlefinger could be descendant of Aegon IV and Falena Stokeworth (there's a lamb on their sigil)).

And all of it was orchestrated by Shiera Seastar, who is GRRM's parallel to Morgana le Fay, water fairy Nimue (who lured wizard Merlin into a trap, and binded him to a magical tree in a cave; Shiera VS Bloodraven), and Irish deity Queen of Phantoms (GRRM's shadowbinder Quaithe) and Crow Goddes Morrigan.

That's why Shiera is the Three-Eyed Crow, and why there was the Three-Eyed Raven in the D&D's show. So book-Bran won't become next 3EC, and he won't become King of 6K or 7K. Because in the books, there was always only one three-eyed crow, and this title and this knowledge and powers don't pass from one person to the next one.

But D&D couldn't have used any of that in their show, because it would have spoiled GRRM's upcoming books. Thus they had to take whatever they could, and used only small bits and pieces, but overall plot, and the ending, and major battles, and the outcome of them, D&D had to make from scratch, without using GRRM's materials. And that's how we have now what we have <_< Though I'm Ok with how they ended the show. As a standalone story, separated from the books, it's not bad.

No one could use that. I am not even sure what THAT is? Rhaego still alive? Quaithe is the three eyed crow but also Shiera Seastar? Littlefinger is what now??  What are you smoking? Asking for a friend :huh:. Not spoiling Martins upcoming books? They are doing exactly that. They ARE using Martins upcoming books! I am just confused. Are you sure, you have read the same books as I have??? None of this makes any sense...

Edited by T and A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, T and A said:

No one could use that. I am not even sure what THAT is?

:)

13 minutes ago, T and A said:

Rhaego still alive?

Yes.

13 minutes ago, T and A said:

Quaithe is the three eyed crow but also Shiera Seastar?

Yes. Or rather Shiera Seastar is the real identity of Quaithe, and the crow with three eyes is how Shiera looks like in a spiritual world (for example, Bloodraven there looks like a weirwood-tree, and Bran like a boy with a wolf's face).

14 minutes ago, T and A said:

Littlefinger is what now?? 

The falce prophet of Antichrist, the Beast out of the Earth. (:rolleyes:^_^)

Littlefinger was secretly gathering Targaryen banners. And the falce prophet in the Bible ordered to make an image of the Beast out of the Sea (Antichrist) and to worship that image. So Littlefinger is going to rally people to fAegon's support, and he will use those Targaryen banners to welcome fAegon. And Dany saw this scene in the House of the Undying - "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd." <- Targaryen banner, mummer's dragon, falce saviour - fAegon.

19 minutes ago, T and A said:

What are you smoking? Asking for a friend :huh:. Not spoiling Martins upcoming books? They are doing exactly that. They ARE using Martins upcoming books! I am just confused. Are you sure, you have read the same books as I have??? None of this makes any sense...

Of course, I could be wrong with those farfetched guesses. But if it will turn out, that my guesses were correct, let's return to this conversation after release of the next book. If I'm right, then in that book it will become known, that Rhaego is alive, that Bloodraven is not the Three-Eyed Crow (if there will be Dany's and Bran's POVs in TWOW), etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m very curious as to how you propose that Rhaego could have possibly survived? Did he walk away while Dany was passed out? Did some Dothraki scoop him up to raise him to become leader of Dothrakii in secret? Even though Dothraki follow power, not bloodlines? 

41 minutes ago, Megorova said:

:)

Yes.

Yes. Or rather Shiera Seastar is the real identity of Quaithe, and the crow with three eyes is how Shiera looks like in a spiritual world (for example, Bloodraven there looks like a weirwood-tree, and Bran like a boy with a wolf's face).

The falce prophet of Antichrist, the Beast out of the Earth. (:rolleyes:^_^)

Littlefinger was secretly gathering Targaryen banners. And the falce prophet in the Bible ordered to make an image of the Beast out of the Sea (Antichrist) and to worship that image. So Littlefinger is going to rally people to fAegon's support, and he will use those Targaryen banners to welcome fAegon. And Dany saw this scene in the House of the Undying - "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd." <- Targaryen banner, mummer's dragon, falce saviour - fAegon.

Of course, I could be wrong with those farfetched guesses. But if it will turn out, that my guesses were correct, let's return to this conversation after release of the next book. If I'm right, then in that book it will become known, that Rhaego is alive, that Bloodraven is not the Three-Eyed Crow (if there will be Dany's and Bran's POVs in TWOW), etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also could use a reminder on when and how Littlefinger was gathering Targaryen banners? Unless you are referring to the tapestries from Robert, but in Westeros, gathering banners means something totally different than gathering tapestries. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Aedam Targaryen said:

I’m very curious as to how you propose that Rhaego could have possibly survived? Did he walk away while Dany was passed out? Did some Dothraki scoop him up to raise him to become leader of Dothrakii in secret? Even though Dothraki follow power, not bloodlines? 

Rhaego was saved by Shiera Seastar, who was assisting Dany during childbirth. In her fevered dream, in AGOT Dany IX, Shiera was seen by Dany as great wings, smiling and whispering stars (because in ADWD, in Dany's last chapter she saw that Quaithe's mask is made of starlight; Quaithe is Shiera Seastar), Viserys, ghosts in faded raiment of kings with blue and green eyes (color of jade, tourmaline, amethyst and opal; Shiera's eyes are mismatched, blue and green) that were shouting as one (because it was one person), and swords of pale fire in their hands was actually a glass candle (same as pale fire in hands of a shadow in a woman's form in The Forsaken chapter from TWOW).

Mirri Maz Duur didn't killed Rhaego. When she was in Asshai, she was one of Quaithe's "disciples". So when Dany had problems with her unborn baby, Mirri summoned Quaithe and maester Marwyn (who was, same as Quaithe, Mirri's teacher, and same as Mirri, was Quaithe's disciple, when he was in Asshai). In Dany's fevered dream, the POV was switching between her body, and the body of her unborn baby that was still inside her.

Rhaego's life didn't payed for one of Dany's dragons. Their lives were "bought" with death of Drogo, the stallion killed by Aggo ("Rakharo chose a stallion from the small herd that remained to them; he was not the equal of Khal Drogo's red, but few horses were. In the center of the square, Aggo fed him a withered apple and dropped him in an instant with an axe blow between the eyes."), and Mirri -> "When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion." - AGOT, Dany X.

And even though Dothraki don't follow bloodlines, they had a reason to kidnap Rhaego. They believe in the prophecy about the Stallion that mounts the world. They believe into what Dosh Khaleen had predicted. They were waiting for his birth for thousands of years. They build Vaes Dothrak for Rhaego and his "herd". In his sacred city all of them (all khals) are equals, because Rhaego/the Stallion is their true "King", Khal of khals, like in the Bible Jesus is King of kings.

Rhaego's kidnapping was the treason for blood, first out of three treasons, predicted by the Undying. Though, because he is half-Dothraki and half-dragonseed, it's not obvious by whom exactly was he kidnapped. Either by his Dothraki-relatives, particularly by Khal Pono (that's possibly the reason, why 30 thousands of Drogo's people went with Pono), or by his many-times-great-aunt Shiera Seastar. So Rhaego is either in Vaes Dothrak, or in Asshai. If he was taken by Pono, we will find out about that in one of Dany's first chapters in TWOW (or in ADOS, if there will be no Dany's POV in TWOW).

Rhaego will become second dragonrider. There was many many clues about that in AGOT. His dragon will be Rhaegal. And third dragonrider will be Jon, on Viserion (there were also clues about this).

I could be wrong, but that's what I think. I am absolutely sure, that I have correctly interpreted what GRRM wrote, that Rhaego is alive, and that Shiera Seastar is Quaithe and the Three-Eyed Crow. I am sure in that, even more, than in "Jon is son of Rhaegar and Lyanna".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×