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Mordor

The aftermatch of the decision made by D&D

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I hope now that the show is done, D&D will come out and publicy regret for shorten the last season. That's the least they can do for angry and disappointed fans. I've been entertained by it, but it could have been much better and longer. Right now, ''The Iron Throne'' has 57% score on RT and it wil probably won't go any higher. Meaning season 8 will be have the lowest score with 70% overall. 

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Fans have been disappointed seasons ago, we were only a small number that kept increasing. People are just realising what we realised years ago, that the end wouldn't be fulfilling and that they had no idea what they were doing. This bad ending doesn't come as a surprise, it's a very fitting culmination of what many former fans foresaw long ago. Why would they apologize now? They made their money, got a reputation for making money, and generate ratings, hype, and attention. I doubt they care that the ending was bad because there are still many who did enjoy it.

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4 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

Fans have been disappointed seasons ago, we were only a small number that kept increasing. People are just realising what we realised years ago, that the end wouldn't be fulfilling and that they had no idea what they were doing. This bad ending doesn't come as a surprise, it's a very fitting culmination of what many former fans foresaw long ago. Why would they apologize now? They made their money, got a reputation for making money, and generate ratings, hype, and attention. I doubt they care that the ending was bad because there are still many who did enjoy it.

You're right for the most part, but this season has divided the general audience and the critics. I know book purists will never love the show, but the reviews from critics are showing this season is very divisive. But I think it has to do with the decision that was made two years ago by D&D to shorten the season. I believe they had good intention for that, but it was sadly a grave mistake. We see this now. 

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Even fans that love this season complains about everything feeling rushed. Like it was crammed too much in so little time. 

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Should have been two regular seasons filmed one year each with the same budget as usual. This felt cheaper than ever.

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D and D have done an amazing job overall.  A flawed masterpiece just like the novels. Many fans who have enjoyed their work now denounce them as incompetent writers. If so then why watch the series over 8 seasons? The truth is that the show declined in quality just as the novels did. Anyone familiar with the novels knows that after A Storm of Swords the quality takes a nose dive. D and D did a great job finishing the outline given to them by GRRM. At the end of the day they finished the story, something GRRM seemingly cannot do.  

 

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Every shows gets dislikes and make people unhappy, but the thing is this season is very divisive. If 7 out of 10 people like it, then it's not divisive, But I feel this season it's 5 who likes it and 5 who doesn't.

I do think if this whole season was about fighting the WW all over Westeros and a extra season with 4 long episodes about King's Landing and the Iron Throne, it would have gotten less hate imo. The main complaints I've seen is it felt rushed. That's a mistake I hope HBO will not do again with the prequels. 

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4 hours ago, Mordor said:

I hope now that the show is done, D&D will come out and publicly regret for shorten the last season. That's the least they can do for angry and disappointed fans. I've been entertained by it, but it could have been much better and longer. Right now, ''The Iron Throne'' has 57% score on RT and it will probably won't go any higher. Meaning season 8 will be have the lowest score with 70% overall. 

The showrunners have stated over and over again that the entire reason they didn't shoot S7 and S8 as ten-episode seasons like the others was to increase the production quality of each episode.

They felt that they should put more work into the show's ending episodes than could have been done if those episodes had been at ten per season.

Do you really want lowered production quality? I don't.

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2 hours ago, DraculaAD1972 said:

D and D have done an amazing job overall.  A flawed masterpiece just like the novels. Many fans who have enjoyed their work now denounce them as incompetent writers. If so then why watch the series over 8 seasons? The truth is that the show declined in quality just as the novels did. Anyone familiar with the novels knows that after A Storm of Swords the quality takes a nose dive. D and D did a great job finishing the outline given to them by GRRM. At the end of the day they finished the story, something GRRM seemingly cannot do.  

 

D&D are good Film Makers. They are awful writers. 

There is a difference. 

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2 hours ago, DraculaAD1972 said:

D and D have done an amazing job overall.  A flawed masterpiece just like the novels. Many fans who have enjoyed their work now denounce them as incompetent writers. If so then why watch the series over 8 seasons?-1- The truth is that the show declined in quality just as the novels did. Anyone familiar with the novels knows that after A Storm of Swords the quality takes a nose dive. D and D did a great job finishing the outline given to them by GRRM. At the end of the day they finished the story-2-, something GRRM seemingly cannot do.  

 

1. Because at a certain point you're invested.

2. Finishing something for the sake of finishing it shouldn't be thought of as an accomplishment.

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31 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

The showrunners have stated over and over again that the entire reason they didn't shoot S7 and S8 as ten-episode seasons like the others was to increase the production quality of each episode.

They felt that they should put more work into the show's ending episodes than could have been done if those episodes had been at ten per season.

Do you really want lowered production quality? I don't.

If this is what they call quality production I would hate to see what  average quality would look like.

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46 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

The showrunners have stated over and over again that the entire reason they didn't shoot S7 and S8 as ten-episode seasons like the others was to increase the production quality of each episode.

They felt that they should put more work into the show's ending episodes than could have been done if those episodes had been at ten per season.

Do you really want lowered production quality? I don't.

Yes, it is just that it is all bullshit.

We needed a lot more dialoque. We needed to see Sansa being smart and shrewd instead of being told so. We needed to see Dany's mind wavering - instead of being told so. Some of the things were told outside of the episodes in interviews for heaven's sake.

There was so much that could have been done dirt cheap without lowering the production quality. Dialogue when the actors are already there and paid for is dirt cheap. And if it needed lowering for budget's sake - and let's not forget this is the most succesful show ever - let's cut some pointless dragon riding, 5 minutes of burning KL and 20 minutes of our heroes teleporting in and out of walls of Winterfell during the battle.

So yeah, I would not like lowered production quality, but it is not about it. I would have preferred it, let's have production quality of season 1, and I would be happy.

The problem is D&D want to go do Star Wars and were bored with GOT. The problem is they did not hire good enough outside writers to finish the stories of their characters and instead they butchered the characters to force the ending they wanted.

It has nothing to do with production quality my friend. Nothing.

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55 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

The showrunners have stated over and over again that the entire reason they didn't shoot S7 and S8 as ten-episode seasons like the others was to increase the production quality of each episode.

They felt that they should put more work into the show's ending episodes than could have been done if those episodes had been at ten per season.

Do you really want lowered production quality? I don't.

The production quality was often outstanding, I'll give them that.

But, given a choice between good characterisation and decent plotting, and high production values, I'll always go for the former.

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1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

The showrunners have stated over and over again that the entire reason they didn't shoot S7 and S8 as ten-episode seasons like the others was to increase the production quality of each episode.

They felt that they should put more work into the show's ending episodes than could have been done if those episodes had been at ten per season.

Do you really want lowered production quality? I don't.

I want a better writing quality and a better, more cohesive story, and I'm pretty sure HBO would have been happy to pay another $60 million to get a final season that would allow the show to go out on a high note. 

But then I don't actually believe that the reason they wanted shortened seasons had anything to do with 'production value' but with the fact that they were tired of the show, not at all interested in putting in the time needed to write good scripts and invent decent story without the books, and so thought rushing it with fewer episodes punctuated by battles might allow them to once again pull the wool over the audiences eyes, but this time, they went too far ,and the whole thing finally fell apart.

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5 hours ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

Fans have been disappointed seasons ago, we were only a small number that kept increasing. People are just realising what we realised years ago, that the end wouldn't be fulfilling and that they had no idea what they were doing. This bad ending doesn't come as a surprise, it's a very fitting culmination of what many former fans foresaw long ago. Why would they apologize now? They made their money, got a reputation for making money, and generate ratings, hype, and attention. I doubt they care that the ending was bad because there are still many who did enjoy it.

The ending isn't bad, it's how we reached the ending which was questionable. Series 7 and 8 were both rushed. I did find most of the plot points satisfying however (Night King aside which was only semi-satisfying). 

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I feel HBO had much fault how divisive the last season as D&D. HBO could have replaced them. 

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8 hours ago, Mordor said:

I hope now that the show is done, D&D will come out and publicy regret for shorten the last season. That's the least they can do for angry and disappointed fans. I've been entertained by it, but it could have been much better and longer. Right now, ''The Iron Throne'' has 57% score on RT and it wil probably won't go any higher. Meaning season 8 will be have the lowest score with 70% overall. 

Fans will have different motivations.

Book "fanatics" (not a snarky term for ASOIAF readers, but generally across the board for all genres and books) want the adaptation to be as faithful as it can be.  They even get annoyed if a character has the wrong hair colour, body shape, age etc.  These kind of fans are almost always disappointed with adaptations because TV or movies can never get as in depth as books without coming across as really cheesy.  To be honest, I was one of these in the early days of the show.  I actually started enjoying the show more after it got ahead of the books simply because I had nothing to retrospectively compare it against.

TV only watchers, and casual book readers, of any story will be divided at the end because most people have aspirations as to how they'd like the story to end and if it doesn't meet those expectations then they'll be disappointed.

Ultimately it is all entertainment and entertainment is individually subjective.  I doubt D&D will worry too much.  It's a real shame that they ran out of GRRM material but then in reality GRRM's material has also gone downhill.  ASOS was the peak.  AFFC was poor, ADWD abysmal and the preview chapters of TWOW so far are worse than ADWD.  It doesn't bode well.  But then again, that's just my subjective take on it!

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I want a better writing quality and a better, more cohesive story, and I'm pretty sure HBO would have been happy to pay another $60 million to get a final season that would allow the show to go out on a high note. 

But then I don't actually believe that the reason they wanted shortened seasons had anything to do with 'production value' but with the fact that they were tired of the show, not at all interested in putting in the time needed to write good scripts and invent decent story without the books, and so thought rushing it with fewer episodes punctuated by battles might allow them to once again pull the wool over the audiences eyes, but this time, they went too far ,and the whole thing finally fell apart.

I think it is more basic than that.  They simply aren't capable.  By their own admission they regard themselves as show runners, not writers.  GRRM was the creative force and the moment they lost that, they couldn't cope.  And to be fair with the quality of the first three books, who could top that?  GRRM himself can't even top that judging by the last two books and TWOW preview chapters.

Fundamentally the show wasn't a mistake.  It's earned a fortune and became a pop culture phenomenon.  But in my own personal view the mistake made was starting a show where the books weren't finished.  Then not having the author of the book postpone the books to focus on writing the scripts for the show.  Or getting the ending of the tale much earlier so they could cut "pointless" story arcs out all together, e.g. Dorne.

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D&D were doing a fantastic adaptation of the books up to Season 5. And Season 6 has some of the best episodes of the series (6x10 is probably my favourite).

The problem is...they are good showrunners, not good writers. The good writer is G.R.R Martin, and he's published just 1 book (ADWD) in the last 13 years (between 2006-2019, just one single book, back in 2011. And between 2000 and 2019, just two, AFFC and ADWD. Two books in 20 years. Let that sink in. The first three ones were published within 4 years).

When Season 1 aired, back in 2011, ADWD was going to be released in summer, and I'm pretty sure D&D thought they had enough time to get Winds before Season 6.

How could they know Martin has stopped writing the books????

I'm not even talking about getting the two books before the final season. Just with Winds published by 2016 (as it should have), the last seasons of the Show would have been completely different. But they had to came up with shortcuts and cheap twists because they are not very good writers, and they had no guidance any more, but wanted to get the edning Martin told them as close as possible. And they did it. Quite poorly, but they did it.

I know this will really bother many fans of the books, but with time, you'll see that the main plot of Season 8 will be the same as in the books. People are just in denial because the execution was poorly done, and I get it, but absolutely everything that happened to the main characters (except Jaime and Cersei) will be the same as in the books.

 

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7 hours ago, nyser1 said:

If this is what they call quality production I would hate to see what  average quality would look like.

They had a plastic water bottle and a starbucks cup on screen... that's some quality production, indeed.

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