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I really like what Drogon did but...


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On 5/20/2019 at 9:23 AM, Greenmonsterff said:

Why can’t Drogon know about Dany’s throne obsession? He’s been with her literally his entire life and it’s all she ever talks about. Just because the dragon can’t speak doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand words. 

But ... words have what exactly to do with this situation?

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I kind of assumed that there was a similar relationship between the wolves and their masters and the dragons and their riders.  I don't understand how else a tiny human would be able to tell them exactly what to do, who to burn and who not to, without some sort of mental connection.  So because of that, I also came to the conclusion that Drogon would have a fairly good idea of what Daenerys' goals were/what had consumed her.  At the same time, I sort of envision a dragon never disobeying its rider, because they are of a same mind.  So Drogon would not have hesitated to burn whatever and whomever Daenerys wanted him to burn, because their minds are one(ish).  That's all just assumptions and theorizing, but that's what I've been thinking all along, since Daenerys starting riding Drogon. 

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The show dragons consistently act like animals. They're only shown comprehending simple commands, they're interested in food and sometimes in attention and a good neck rub. 

The exception is that they apparently have, or at least Drogon has, a telepathic connection with Daenerys of some sort such that there are times when he appears to act out her will. His roar with the Tarly soldiers was mentioned above, but there are actually several scenes where Drogon does menacing stuff like roar and spread his wings and jump around, but without actually  hurting anybody, when it seems fairly clear that he is acting out her desire to intimidate their enemies. But that doesn't seem so much to me as a manifestation of their own intelligence.

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On 5/20/2019 at 11:23 AM, Greenmonsterff said:

Why can’t Drogon know about Dany’s throne obsession? He’s been with her literally his entire life and it’s all she ever talks about. Just because the dragon can’t speak doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand words. 

There's really no evidence that dragons are that perceptive. Drogon would need to be smarter than the smartest non human primate to do that. I get that this is fantasy, but again, there's no evidence.

Also, why destroy the throne? Just because there isn't a throne anymore doesn't mean westeros won't have a monarch.And Jon was right there, all barbequeable.

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Nah, i'm sorry. It's stupid. It's beyond stupid. It's just creating a nice scene without any regard for logic whatsoever.

A dragon is just a monster that kills things, doesn't care a bit if it's an innocent child or an evil man. So to see him burn the throne was DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.  

 

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2
20 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

There's really no evidence that dragons are that perceptive. Drogon would need to be smarter than the smartest non human primate to do that. I get that this is fantasy, but again, there's no evidence.

I don't see how that's true. Most animals can understand words or sequences of sounds. A dog was able to learn hundreds of words, and even was able to infer, when hearing a new word, which object it likely referred to. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/304/5677/1682

Besides, dogs are among the only animals who look into the eyes of the humans they know, because they try to understand what they mean, and know that their gaze and facial expressions are important to understand that. Dragons do the same in the show (S7E4 and S8E1, among others).

So how is it strange to consider that dragons, if they are only slightly more intelligent than dogs, couldn't understand words?

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Yeah, but the dragons on GoT don't have bridles, they can't feel their riders leg cues like a horse can...if there isn't some sort of telepathic connection, how in the world do they know where to turn?  When to land?  When to kill?  When not to?  When one person is to be executed, but someone standing nearby isn't to be harmed?  Something is going on with the dragons (those with riders) beyond what you would have with a regular pet! 

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1 hour ago, Kylan said:

<snip>So how is it strange to consider that dragons, if they are only slightly more intelligent than dogs, couldn't understand words?

What do words have to do with anything?

Another poster said something similar and I asked this same question, only to not get an answer. So just in case I'm being vague, let me explain:

Nobody is saying "iron throne" "iron throne" Drogon! Go! Get the iron throne!

There's not a sign on it that says "Iron Throne Here."

Nobody is talking about it.

So again, what do words have to do with anything?

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I'm in the camp Drogon had no clue what that metal thingy was.

I believe Drogon was really pissed, but because he couldn't kill Jon Snow for whatever reason, Drogon released his anger on the next closest item next to them.

It just so happens it was the Iron Throne.

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1 minute ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

What do words have to do with anything?

Another poster said something similar and I asked this same question, only to not get an answer. So just in case I'm being vague, let me explain:

Nobody is saying "iron throne" "iron throne" Drogon! Go! Get the iron throne!

There's not a sign on it that says "Iron Throne Here."

Nobody is talking about it.

So again, what do words have to do with anything?

Yeah, I wasn't answering you specifically in my message, more like people saying that dragons are dumb without going in more details about why they would be dumb.

Regarding the importance of words, I agree with you that it's not really important regarding the burning of the Iron Throne. It can all be done without words, and even without a fantastic intelligence, as I mentioned in my previous post.

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If there is a mental connection it need not be through words. It can be an unexplainable understanding.  IIRC there is mention that some maesters believed dragons had high intelligence.  As there only seems to be evidence of intelligence suggested I’m not certain we can reasonably deny it.  

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On 5/20/2019 at 11:16 AM, btfu806 said:

It makes zero sense. Why would a dragon care about the iron throne? How would he/she/it deduce that this is what his "mother" had died over.

The safe assumption for that dragon would have been that Jon did it, and burn him alive. Or, if they really wanted to go heavy handed that Jon's Targ blood helps him control dragons, have Jon look at the throne for a long time or something to give a visual clue to the dragon that it was the throne's fault... That would have made some sense at least.

Instead we got another "cool shot" that means nothing.

 

To me, it makes sense that Drogon cared deeply for Daenerys and mourned her (in the books, I believe, either the novels and/or the companion 'histories', there is at least one instance of a dragon mourning the death of its rider).  I think he knew or suspected that Jon had killed Daenerys; I would think that Drogon could have smelled Dany's blood on Jon.  He didn't fry Jon because Jon has a Targaryen 'smell', he is closely related to Daenerys; Drogon seemed to be very angry and confused about Jon.  I think the scene would have been much better if, while Drogon was confused and angry and looking for something/someone to blast, they'd have had Jon look up, his face tear-streaked, at the dragon and then, with hate, at the Iron Throne, point to it, and call to Drogon "Dracarys".  Drogon would burn/melt the Iron Throne; that would be Jon's only action as a Targaryen; Drogon would then take Daenerys' body and fly away...

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On 5/20/2019 at 10:59 PM, kevinbgwrites said:

It really makes no sense that Drogon would have the intelligence of understanding and sympathizing with why Jon killed his mom and recognizing the throne as the real enemy- BUT was the weapon of mass destruction slaughtering the innocents. It just does click mentally very cleanly. 

That was exactly my reaction to the writers implying Drogon was smart enough to have understood the real reason of Dany's downfall.  It would actually have been really interesting and unexpected if he had turned on her when she tried to use him to kill the civilians.

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On 5/23/2019 at 12:31 AM, Gianna Dorenberg said:

Nah, i'm sorry. It's stupid. It's beyond stupid. It's just creating a nice scene without any regard for logic whatsoever.

A dragon is just a monster that kills things, doesn't care a bit if it's an innocent child or an evil man. So to see him burn the throne was DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.  

 

Or maybe they just have different morality to humans, Smaug certainly wasn’t dumb.

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8 hours ago, storm.131 said:

That was exactly my reaction to the writers implying Drogon was smart enough to have understood the real reason of Dany's downfall.  It would actually have been really interesting and unexpected if he had turned on her when she tried to use him to kill the civilians.

Yeah you just can't have its both ways. Him as a hyper intelligent being that understand the obsession with the throne killed his mom and absolving Jon and as a empty minded tool for mass destruction.

Throughout the series the Dragons are portrayed as pretty ok with murder so they would have had to do a lot of leg work to make it believable.

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Have to agree that this was a major stretch for Drogon to be this smart and understanding.  I really like this idea as making the most sense:

On 5/22/2019 at 9:02 PM, tallTale said:

I'm in the camp Drogon had no clue what that metal thingy was.

I believe Drogon was really pissed, but because he couldn't kill Jon Snow for whatever reason, Drogon released his anger on the next closest item next to them.

It just so happens it was the Iron Throne.

and that because the Iron Throne was nearest to him it created this beautiful symbolic moment of closing out Dany's story.  

But I am skeptical that the writers intended this, whether we can read it that way or not.  I think they wanted Drogon to suddenly be this intelligent because it created this moment and they worked backwards from there, as they have shown a propensity to do that over the years of working backwards from moments and not really caring about how much sense it makes.

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Professor Drogon, English Literature PhD, briefly taught D&D eighth-grade level english, allowing them to use heavy handed symbolism and theming to show us who the real aunt killer was.

He then flew off to Asshai to ponder on the limits of artistic expression so he can critique the Karl Tanner scene and debate that it has no artistic merit to depict and glam up multiple rapes without exploring anything meaningful beyond 'Karl Bad'.

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This is yet one more thing to look forward to if we ever have the chance to read GRRM further in this portion of his saga.  After Daenerys is slain, there is a quick moment that Jon and Drogon are face to face/eye to eye. (This moment was breathtaking and amazing and had me on the edge of my sofa!)  Jon is ready to be incinerated.  The blast furnace inside Drogan is heating up.  The inside of his throat is beginning to glow.  Jon is ready to die for killing his queen.  Ready to pay that ultimate price....And in a split second Drogon turns from Jon towards the Iron Throne!!!!  So amazing.  It will be another amazing thing if we have a Drogon POV chapter or chapters in GRRM's continuation/conclusion!!!!  What a moment!!!!!

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