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I really like what Drogon did but...

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2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

yeah, he should have killed Jon. I don't really care if Jon lives or not but it would make much more sense if Drogon killed him. I know, we know that dragons are intelligent but I don't buy that they are that intelligent.

So you buy that they are dragons, that they can fly and breathe fire, after being born out of fossilized eggs, but you can't buy that they are intelligent? And it's not exactly unusual for dragons to be intelligent (see, eg, Smaug).

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

So you buy that they are dragons, that they can fly and breathe fire, after being born out of fossilized eggs, but you can't buy that they are intelligent? And it's not exactly unusual for dragons to be intelligent (see, eg, Smaug).

Why would an intelligent dragon spare the man who killed his mother?

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Drogon was merely warming Jon's seat for him. If Drogon went a little too far and ended up melting the damn thing, so be it. 

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Just now, markdotinc said:

Why would an intelligent dragon spare the man who killed his mother?

Because a few minutes earlier he looked at the same man, and let him pass to go and kill his mother?

No, I am not really buying that, because it is D&D. But dragons are said to be very highly intelligent in the books and by GRRM. So I will pretend that Drogon knew what had to be done, let Jon do it and not only did not kill Jon but understood that they mourned together.

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4 minutes ago, markdotinc said:

Why would an intelligent dragon spare the man who killed his mother?

First, he knew well that Jon was a Targ. That was established previously. And he apparently understood, in general terms at least, what was going on. His mother was sick, Jon killed her as a mercy, and it all happened because of her quest for the throne.

It's a nice little reveal--Drogon understands a lot more than we might have suspected. And there have been several instances where the Dragons understood the situation around them previously.

Edited by Forlong the Fat

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3 minutes ago, markdotinc said:

Why would an intelligent dragon spare the man who killed his mother?

Maybe the dragon understood the real reason she had to die.

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

First, he knew well that Jon was a Targ. That was established previously. And he apparently understood, in general terms at least, what was going on. His mother was sick, Jon killed her as a mercy, and it all happened because of her quest for the throne.

It's a nice little reveal--Drogon understands a lot more than we might have suspected. And there have been several instances where the Dragons understood the situation around them previously.



Lmao wat

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35 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

So you buy that they are dragons, that they can fly and breathe fire, after being born out of fossilized eggs, but you can't buy that they are intelligent? And it's not exactly unusual for dragons to be intelligent (see, eg, Smaug).

I literally wrote in my previous post that we all know that dragons are intelligent. But I think that claiming that a dragon understood that Jon loved Dany but he had to kill her because otherwise she would burn millions of people because of her desire to sit on the Iron Throne and thus the dragon burnt the throne so no one would ever waste his life wanting it, while the dragon didn't harm the killer of his master and mother, I say that claiming this all is a massive reach. We never saw the dragons doing anything at least remotely close to this before, they always almost blindly followed Dany's orders (although Drogon had this short episode of not obeying Dany in S5). And now Drogon is capable of this kind of mental gymnastics? I don't think so.

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Maybe he just felt like burning something. Seems to run in the family.

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In the books George mentions there being differnet strengths with Wargs, all the Starks are wargs, Sansa I think is the weakest her bond with Lady was an empathic one, sharing similar personalities and feeling emotions. All the wolves personalities reflected their masters, Wild rickon and Shaggydog. Robb could control Greywind without words.

Jon, Arya and Bran being the stronger wargs all see throught their wolves eyes, they know where their wolves are, they control the wolves without words, feel each others emotions.

Arya bonds with two animals Nymeria and a cat, when blind in Bravos she knows where Nymeria is, she knows about the huge pack following her, she directed the wolf to drag Catelyns body out of the river but didnt let her eat it... etc etc...

When a Warg dies their sole doesn't disappear they go into their beast, eventually the human sole becomes more animalistic the longer they remain in the beast until there is very little left... I personally think this is where Jon is in the books (inside Ghost) until he gets risen again.

A warged Animal can only have one master at a time.... I've often wondered about the bond between dragon and rider, is this connection similar or the same as the warg., a dragon will only take one rider (master) at a time, the same as a warg beast. Dragons are controlled mentally (like a warg animals are). Do dragons feel their riders emotions like warged beasts do? if so drogon would of known if danny was scared and why (like he did in the fighting pit in Meereen), and Jon didn't scare her he made her happy.

If the bond between dragon and rider is similar to wargs and their beasts.. its very likely he knew her desires, dreams and thoughts (The Iron Throne being a big one, taking up a lot of Dannys thoughts over years).  

Just a curious theory :)

Edited by Flightless bird

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1 hour ago, Flightless bird said:

In the books George mentions there being differnet strengths with Wargs, all the Starks are wargs, Sansa I think is the weakest her bond with Lady was an empathic one, sharing similar personalities and feeling emotions. All the wolves personalities reflected their masters, Wild rickon and Shaggydog. Robb could control Greywind without words.

Jon, Arya and Bran being the stronger wargs all see throught their wolves eyes, they know where their wolves are, they control the wolves without words, feel each others emotions.

Arya bonds with two animals Nymeria and a cat, when blind in Bravos she knows where Nymeria is, she knows about the huge pack following her, she directed the wolf to drag Catelyns body out of the river but didnt let her eat it... etc etc...

When a Warg dies their sole doesn't disappear they go into their beast, eventually the human sole becomes more animalistic the longer they remain in the beast until there is very little left... I personally think this is where Jon is in the books (inside Ghost) until he gets risen again.

A warged Animal can only have one master at a time.... I've often wondered about the bond between dragon and rider, is this connection similar or the same as the warg., a dragon will only take one rider (master) at a time, the same as a warg beast. Dragons are controlled mentally (like a warg animals are). Do dragons feel their riders emotions like warged beasts do? if so drogon would of known if danny was scared and why (like he did in the fighting pit in Meereen), and Jon didn't scare her he made her happy.

If the bond between dragon and rider is similar to wargs and their beasts.. its very likely he knew her desires, dreams and thoughts (The Iron Throne being a big one, taking up a lot of Dannys thoughts over years).  

Just a curious theory :)

Ok so Dany's is having her second life in Drogon now instead of it just being Bran out driving him around for a spin that day?

Cool!

Much better a Dany-in-Drogon explanation than a Bran-in-Drogin one.

Just one question then. What the heck is Dany-in-Drogon planning on doing with her body that she's snatched away, preventing her mourning subjects from having a proper funeral for anyway?

Or Anybody-in-Drogon, for that matter?

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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LOl, people still trying to make sense out of DD writing.

It's just symbolic, a set piece. That is all.

The whys or hows don't matter (to them and to most of the audience).

 

Don't go crazy with the warging, that the show barely uses to effect. Besides when warging they are there with them but lose their one eyes and awareness.

Edited by Dragonslack

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Drogon really is very intelligent. In fact, I'm sure he flew off to a retreat in Valyria to write about the nature of power. Drogon the Wise, they'll call him, when he returns to Westeros to publish his work.

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Lame ass ending. At least make him burn Jon. Or even him surviving the burning like she did and the NK did. Or better, have him ride Drogon into the sunset. Even better jump into Drogon and burn the Dothrakhi because if not they go loose on the land.

Subvert? She is dead, he is the new rider and supreme ruler, heir, king, targeryan. Her army submits, retreats or is burned from inside and surrounded from the outside. Make him follow through for once. assume leadership and power, execute a strategy. As was it was very shoddy and irresponsible of him and Tyrion.

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I have some trouble understanding what people don't understand about that scene.

Drogon has always liked Jon since the moment he saw (or rather sniffed) him (S7E4).
Drogon saw the two in love with each other in front of the waterfall (S8E1). If that scene isn't to show that, it's pretty useless.
Drogon knows what grief looks like, and feels like. He curls up around Dany when she loses Jorah, to comfort her and protect her (S8E3).

He also lets Jon pass to join Dany. Now some people say that it's because he wants Jon to go kill Dany. I don't buy that at all. It's because he trusts and likes Jon. Nothing more.

Then he sees Jon against Dany, in tears. He nudges her, not believing that she's dead at first, and then when it's obvious, he looks at Jon and growls. He knows Jon is the one who killed her. You can see his eyes showing anger when he looks at Jon.

But then, as he is about to burn Jon, Jon does not run away, accepting his fate and Drogon's punishment. It reminds me a lot of Dany's scene with Drogon in the fighting pit: "If I show him my fear, I'm dead."

Because of that, and because he saw Jon grieving and loving Dany, he doesn't want to kill him. Since he's still angry, he lashes out on what he knew Dany wanted from the beginning, and destroys it. He does not need to know what the throne is or what it means. He knows Dany wanted it, and that she did everything she did, for that. Was it worth it? No, he lost his two brothers and his mother for it. He growls at Jon again after the throne is burnt. Making it clear that he doesn't want to have anything to do with Jon again.

 

It does not require Drogon to understand the complex politics of the realm. It does not require Drogon to be dumb to think it was the pointy chair that physically killed Dany.

That would be human level intelligence, nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing that perhaps shows a greater intelligence, is that he didn't go Lady Stoneheart on the rest of the world in his grief. He didn't end up like the Hound, seeking revenge. He did not become Arya either, nor did he become like Dany (Going after the Night King for Viserion, and going after Cersei and burning Kings Landing after losing Rheagal and Missendei). He saw what revenge did, and was done with it. "Peace I'm done with you stupid mammals." In a way, he ended up being a bit more like Jon in the end, who understood that too.

 

... though I can also see him needing a snack and taking Dany for that. I mean, it's either him eating her or worms eating her anyway XD.

More seriously, I complained a LOT about this season, and season 7 too. But if there is one scene that I liked in the two last seasons, it's that one.

Edited by Kylan

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On 5/21/2019 at 11:29 AM, Dragonslack said:

Lame ass ending. At least make him burn Jon. Or even him surviving the burning like she did and the NK did. Or better, have him ride Drogon into the sunset. Even better jump into Drogon and burn the Dothrakhi because if not they go loose on the land.

Subvert? She is dead, he is the new rider and supreme ruler, heir, king, targeryan. Her army submits, retreats or is burned from inside and surrounded from the outside. Make him follow through for once. assume leadership and power, execute a strategy. As was it was very shoddy and irresponsible of him and Tyrion.

"jon" is half targaryan, thus possibly immune to fire. 

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