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snow is the man

So everyone besides jon and dany get a happy ending even after everything they did!? SERIOUSLY!

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Well being a good/just person in real life sometimes doesn't get you on the top either... It's extremely sad for Jon and Dany, yes even with her burning KL, but the story was always going to unfold this way. No happy ending for everyone.

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39 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

The only person to truly pay for her sins in the end was Dany. 


Those sins were not her own! Blood is on the hands of everyone who set the stage for this to happen. Bran, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, and Cersei all take their share too. DANY WAS TOO GOOD FOR THIS WORLD!!!!!

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Posted (edited)

and tbh no one got a happy ending. Yes, Sansa became queen of the north, but she got raped, half her family got murdered and she got tortured for years. That's something you don't forget for the rest for life. It scars you. Equally with Arya, she's seen so much death, her friends murdered, arriving at the twins hoping to finally see her family again, only to realize they've just been murdered... Davos losing his son and Shireen, Brienne losing Jaime, and so on..

 

It may be only Hot Pie that got a happy ending? lol

Edited by EProduc

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

In terms of scale, sure, but feeding a man his children is also something unforgivable in Westeros (remember the Rat Cook?) and so is kinslaying.

Dany also did more good than anyone else in the story too though. Ended slavery and helped defeat the AotD. 

'A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.'

Hopefully King Branbot remembers that when he’s telling his stories. 

Humm lets see. Dany broke the society structure in Astapor and took Unsullied which were a big source if income for the city, didn't bother to make a new social structure which. She left the city and city was then ruled by a tyrant that killed all his opposition. Astapor economy completely collapsed, famines started and led to an outbreak of a disease that forced entire city to leave and settle in camps around the Mereen. Well at least they are free no? 

Let's look at the Mereen. She organised a rebellion against the masters and again ended slavery in the city. This time she decided to stay and rule the city since Astapor wasn't doing too well. She crucified some randomly picked masters of which some supported the abolishment or slavery. She proceeded to disrespect Mereen culture by disallowing the fighting pits until finally pressured to change her mind. She is learning I will give her that. But what she has done so far was ruined a few societies without bringing a new alternative to them. Thing is she has/had good intentions but because she is not really smart or experienced it led to bad things. Her complete contrast is Varys who does terrible things to achieve good results. 

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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13 minutes ago, RFL said:

I don't mind Arya's arc because it was an arc that at least made sense.  But the family she fought so hard to get back to she found, once there, she felt like an outsider.  Being the great savior only made that feeling worse for her  Her arc went beyond that point so it made sense but she is happy only because she has embraced being the lost wanderer (which is not a bad thing).  Tyrion (going by memory), in the books, considers "the wandering wolf" so it is also not unprecedented.  

What I take from this is this story could be any of the stories in the past referenced.  If Martin writes a story set five generations forward the history might be mentioned but nothing in Westeros will have changed (Harrenhal and Kings Landing might be remembered but the ideas will not have changed).  Same story outline with new characters.  No clear heros and nuanced villains.  

 

The Wandering Wolf went to Essos for a bit but returned to marry Arya Flint. Arya is named for her. But the idea Arya will never be able to be home with Sansa or Jon is heartbreaking to me. 

Quote

Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. He used to mess my hair and call me "little sister," she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

The ending doesn't feel right to me at all, as a happy one.

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22 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

In terms of scale, sure, but feeding a man his children is also something unforgivable in Westeros (remember the Rat Cook?) and so is kinslaying.

The Rat Cook killed guests under guest right. The gods punished him by making him eat his young. It was the guest right violation that was unforgivable.

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Just now, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

The Rat Cook killed guests under guest right. The gods punished him by making him eat his young. It was the guest right violation that was unforgivable.

Are we really going to debate whether most Westerosi would be absolutely appalled at what Arya did? 

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I would have been happier if someone could at least have said something good of Dany at the end.

We'll never get anyone saying of Dany (in show canon) that "the evil that men do lives after them so that the good is oft interred in their bones"

She will be branded as a complete monster through the centuries, and her role in smashing the slave trade and saving the world will be ignored.

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3 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Are we really going to debate whether most Westerosi would be absolutely appalled at what Arya did? 

 

I think the surviving kindred of the Northerners murdered by Freys on Lord Frey's orders would not be appalled at all; they'd probably smile.

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Is Arya the only and first person to ask the question what is west of westeros? Thousands of ships and none sailed west until now? No one imagined a possible fertile and rich land?

Not a single ship returned? If so who in their right mind would be on the ship with her?

So she's the first explorer to circumvent the globe? (If it's spherical)

Adventures of Arya the great continues

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Just now, robasp2 said:

Is Arya the only and first person to ask the question what is west of westeros? Thousands of ships and none sailed west until now? No one imagined a possible fertile and rich land?

Not a single ship returned? If so who in their right mind would be on the ship with her?

So she's the first explorer to circumvent the globe? (If it's spherical)

Adventures of Arya the great continues

Euron returned. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, robasp2 said:

Is Arya the only and first person to ask the question what is west of westeros? Thousands of ships and none sailed west until now? No one imagined a possible fertile and rich land?

Not a single ship returned? If so who in their right mind would be on the ship with her?

So she's the first explorer to circumvent the globe? (If it's spherical)

Adventures of Arya the great continues

From the book canon, no. All other attempts failed. Brandon the shipwright and Elissa Farman disappeared never to be seen again. As will Arya as they kept suggesting about her never coming back

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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Just now, Tygett Lannister said:

Euron returned. 

Yet no word spread? On What is west of westeros?

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Why do you say Jon did not get a happy ending? I mean lets keep it real, if Jon was never sent to the wall as punishment what would he have done? He never wanted to rule. He doesnt care for that. He probably would have still rode to the "real north" and join his wildling friends

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58 minutes ago, White26 said:

He followed orders from his queen so no crime there.

Ummmm... that’s not how that works.  “I was following orders” is not a valid defense to war crimes.

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11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 

I would have been happier if someone could at least have said something good of Dany at the end.

We'll never get anyone saying of Dany (in show canon) that "the evil that men do lives after them so that the good is oft interred in their bones"

She will be branded as a complete monster through the centuries, and her role in smashing the slave trade and saving the world will be ignored.

If I hear another idiot saying that slavery was "culture" that she interfered with my head might explode. 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Jon in the end decides to ride with the Wildlings, to leave the Night's Watch. Together with his best friend Tormund and his direwolf Ghost he will hopefully come to terms with his life and enjoy it after all.

 

This was my HOPED-FOR ending for Jon, as long at it was his choosing.  I even think he would have chosen the north but he did not get that moment of choice.  He was banished, exiled, removed from his family. And I just loved the part where his family was saying goodbye to him and Sansa going "we did all we could" but she certainly got what she wanted.   Or Bran with "you were exactly where you were supposed to be" so bye now, I am King.  

Jeez - without Jon, Dany would still be killing innocent others and ruling as a tyrant.  I actually do think Jon was light-bringer, but nobody cared.

Edited by lakin1013

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1 hour ago, Martyn Bull said:

If you think he left with the free people, I think Jon’s ending was quite happy. He’s never wanted the throne or to rule (that’s something we have wanted for him). He finally could go and live a free life where family names don’t matter with his friend and pet. Thought that was a nice ending. If you think he stays in the NW – well that’s a little bitter.  

Yeah, bitter sweet in Jon's case maybe, as he will have to live with what he did. And the only Wildlings left in the show are the ones walking with him - not that many (unless they can magically re-spawn like the Unsullied and the Dothraki)

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53 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

In terms of scale, sure, but feeding a man his children is also something unforgivable in Westeros (remember the Rat Cook?) and so is kinslaying.

Dany also did more good than anyone else in the story too though. Ended slavery and helped defeat the AotD. 

'A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.'

Hopefully King Branbot remembers that when he’s telling his stories. 

What makes you think the Ghiscari didn’t resume slaving as soon as Dany sailed out of Slaver’s Bay?

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23 minutes ago, EProduc said:

and tbh no one got a happy ending. Yes, Sansa became queen of the north, but she got raped, half her family got murdered and she got tortured for years. That's something you don't forget for the rest for life. It scars you. Equally with Arya, she's seen so much death, her friends murdered, arriving at the twins hoping to finally see her family again, only to realize they've just been murdered... Davos losing his son and Shireen, Brienne losing Jaime, and so on..

It should scar you.

But I think what we have now is two stories:

One is a complex tale of people facing hard choices that reveal their nature, and who suffer real consequences.

The other is a standard fantasy story where good triumphs over evil and where no matter how many horrors the main characters go through, they have their happy ending. In such stories, if sequels are made, the characters' mental state will be as if the first story never happened.

I think the show forced the story to become that kind of a standard fantasy story. So in Sansa's and Arya's show ending, the troubles they went through does not bother them one bit.

I'm happy for them, but I wish the ending could have been more complex.
 

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