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snow is the man

So everyone besides jon and dany get a happy ending even after everything they did!? SERIOUSLY!

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5 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Not despite, but because.

How so? He is still very young, he can find a girl and found a family. He is Lord of Storm's End now and accepted.

Because they not so subtly hinted at it with the dialogue echoes. Robert wanted the girl, got a crown. Gendry wanted the girl, got a castle. History repeats, as we saw with Daenerys. Those massive claw marks in his costume were not put there by Michelle Clapton by accident. He probably has girls lined up but none of them will measure up. I don't really think they could have done much more to sell the point.

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4 hours ago, Martyn Bull said:

Haha - yeah, Bran as King was the one thing I really didn't see coming, and I still don't see how it adds up. 

You aren't alone in having trouble seeing how it adds up. Thematically it makes good sense given "A Time for Wolves" and all, but there are serious gaps in how this played out. 

We do know that the showrunners tried very hard to get rid of as much magic and visions and prophecy and flash-arounds as they could. The last Bran chapters we can be sure they ever read were from Dance, and much of those would have been very hard to do justice to in their medium. How do you represent Bran's internal thoughts and voice while he's in another body, particularly Hodor's?

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5 hours ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Arya is a cold-blooded murder, who takes pleasure in the cruel and sadistic murder of those SHE DEEMS worthy of such punishment. I see many people trying to justify her action by saying that all of the people she killed deserved it. So much for civility and decency. When someone deserves to die, they should be brutally murdered in the most graphic and painful way possible.

Frey pie. Gouging out Trant's eyes. Casually slitting Littlefinger's throat in a room full of people. 

It is simply revenge porn with no consideration for the psychology of the character. Arya only kills EVIL people. But, who is she to decide? Does she always have the justification? Can't she make a mistake? Her actions are reckless. She never ONCE pays a price for her actions. She just smirks her way through every situation as though she is too bad-ass to be questioned. Arya is a disgusting, mean-spirited, hateful character all through the story. The fact that the conclusion to her story is sailing away without any trace of accountability is sad, lazy, and unfulfilling. 

Yes plot-armor. 

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Tyrion isn't happy. Brienne isn't happy. Most of the lords aren't happy since most of their families have been killed. Most of the population of Westeros for that matter isn't happy. Hell the only ones who maybe happy are Sansa and Bronn and to a lesser extent Arya.

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Posted (edited)

They tried to make this end bittersweet for the Stark family - probably that's how the books end. 

But the way this family treated Dany and made her fall to madness, is just so bad and ungrateful that you can't feel for them. Despite the general holes for example Jon surviving the Dothraki, Unsullied and Drogon etc. there is a great distance between what we feel with what we should feel. (I think). 

Because if that was a bittersweet it should also reflect on us, not just on the characters. 

Apparently this is a book - show gap. They take the book's end which doesn't tie with the story they presented - and the Dany they presented - and just add it copy paste not even caring if it ties with the psychology generated by the rest of the story or if it feels totally unearned. 

Apparently they don't have the liberty to change the end - since they are supposed to deliver the same result, so they get trapped inside it. And the result is a mess. 

Neither the end fits the story, neither the story is successful with such an end. 

For me at least this is not justified: we should be able to identify with the Starks after all the struggle they made, and they even give us a bittersweet ending and who cares? They are a bunch of traitors, only caring for their ass. Is this supposed to feel right? If yes, the story is meaningless. If no, something is extremely wrong with the narrative. 

Edited by Nightwish

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28 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Tyrion isn't happy. Brienne isn't happy. Most of the lords aren't happy since most of their families have been killed. Most of the population of Westeros for that matter isn't happy. Hell the only ones who maybe happy are Sansa and Bronn and to a lesser extent Arya.

Yeah, Tyrion seems absolutely miserable cracking jokes on the small council with all his buddies. It was so melancholy when he started telling his joke about the jackass and the honeycomb. Though I suppose it was really tragic when everyone ruined the chairs that he so nicely arranged around the table.  

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6 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

What Sansa and Tyrion did? Lol.

You're acting like as if they killed thousands of children at KL...

Dothraki should obey the king / queen of Westeros, as well as Unsullied, that was the deal.

If you don't see what sansa did then I am not gonna get into it.

 

Dothraki respect strength. They followed dany because she killed the khals and she rode on the back of a dragon. Bran is a dude in a wheel chair who can't ride a horse without a special saddle and is literally called bran the broken. It would be like taking someone from the dark ages and bringing them here and expecting them to act exactly like we do. The dothraki are nomadic raiders and we should expect they will completly change because they are told too. No

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2 minutes ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Yeah, Tyrion seems absolutely miserable cracking jokes on the small council with all his buddies. It was so melancholy when he started telling his joke about the jackass and the honeycomb. Though I suppose it was really tragic when everyone ruined the chairs that he so nicely arranged around the table.  

Tyrions entire family is dead, his Queen who he loved, truly loved and believed in slaughtered the entire city, Varys, someone he considered a real friend tried to warn him and he died as a result of Tyrions actions. Cracking jokes doesn't mean you are happy the other 23.9 hours a day and usually is a defense mechanism.

Hell Bran the future seer even says on screen that Tyrion will be miserable and will spend the rest of his life making up for his mistakes.

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3 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Tyrions entire family is dead, his Queen who he loved, truly loved and believed in slaughtered the entire city, Varys, someone he considered a real friend tried to warn him and he died as a result of Tyrions actions. Cracking jokes doesn't mean you are happy the other 23.9 hours a day and usually is a defense mechanism.

Hell Bran the future seer even says on screen that Tyrion will be miserable and will spend the rest of his life making up for his mistakes.

Show, don't tell. The show constantly tells us one thing while showing us another. We're discussing happy endings. Tyrion definitely got that. Not only is he given a chance to redeem all of his past wrong-doing, but he is literally given the job, recognition, and power that he always wanted. Everyone in the story lost loved ones, friends, family, but only Tyrion never had to pay the price for any of the bad decisions he made. St. Tyrion may repent for his trespasses. 

Consider that Tyrion is a man guilty of patricide, accused of regicide, who was also hand to the genocidal Dany, it's a small miracle that the common people have enough compassion to even let him try to redeem himself. This is the happiest, most white-washed possible ending for Tyrion. 

So much for, "if you lose the Game of Thrones you die". Nope. You just a redo, but you're sad about the whole thing.     

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So? This series was never about what you deserve. I get complaints about the execution (it sucked) but people getting salty over their favourite characters not getting happy endings are ridiculous.

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8 minutes ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Show, don't tell. The show constantly tells us one thing while showing us another. We're discussing happy endings. Tyrion definitely got that. Not only is he given a chance to redeem all of his past wrong-doing, but he is literally given the job, recognition, and power that he always wanted. Everyone in the story lost loved ones, friends, family, but only Tyrion never had to pay the price for any of the bad decisions he made. St. Tyrion may repent for his trespasses. 

Consider that Tyrion is a man guilty of patricide, accused of regicide, who was also hand to the genocidal Dany, it's a small miracle that the common people have enough compassion to even let him try to redeem himself. This is the happiest, most white-washed possible ending for Tyrion. 

So much for, "if you lose the Game of Thrones you die". Nope. You just a redo, but you're sad about the whole thing.     

So Tyrions patricide...he killed a man who hated him his whole life, who was going to have him executed that next morning for a crime he knows he didn't commit, who was sleeping with the woman Tyrion loved, is a bad thing? IDK... Yeah, while a cross bow was pointed at him Tywin says he wasn't going to kill Tyrion but we all know he was. He had Jaime back  as his heir and that was all he wanted.

He didn't kill Joffery and we all know it so why even mention it? 

Genocide, really, this is your thought? He was trying to stop it with everything he had. He abandoned his Queen when she did it and told he so to her face.  The common people who are left alive have no clue what part he played, only what he does going forward.

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Just now, dbunting said:

So Tyrions patricide...he killed a man who hated him his whole life, who was going to have him executed that next morning for a crime he knows he didn't commit, who was sleeping with the woman Tyrion loved, is a bad thing? IDK... Yeah, while a cross bow was pointed at him Tywin says he wasn't going to kill Tyrion but we all know he was. He had Jaime back  as his heir and that was all he wanted.

He didn't kill Joffery and we all know it so why even mention it? 

Genocide, really, this is your thought? He was trying to stop it with everything he had. He abandoned his Queen when she did it and told he so to her face.  The common people who are left alive have no clue what part he played, only what he does going forward.

Precisely, the common people have no idea that he didn't kill Joffery. They only know that he was Dany's hand. 

I'm not talking about what he did or didn't do. I'm saying that the majority of the kingdom, unlike the audience of the show who can't find any fault in him, would hate his guts. There is no way they would trust him as Bran's hand. He got way more than should ever logically receive. Hell, he even gets to decide the new system of government IN CHAINS! 

Tyrion getting to be hand is fan service, plain and simple. 

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2 minutes ago, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Precisely, the common people have no idea that he didn't kill Joffery. They only know that he was Dany's hand. 

I'm not talking about what he did or didn't do. I'm saying that the majority of the kingdom, unlike the audience of the show who can't find any fault in him, would hate his guts. There is no way they would trust him as Bran's hand. He got way more than should ever logically receive. Hell, he even gets to decide the new system of government IN CHAINS! 

Tyrion getting to be hand is fan service, plain and simple. 

The majority of the kingdom you speak of is dead. The lords who are alive and matter were present know he didn't do it. They know he is imprisoned for betraying Dany and trying to stop her, so why would they hate him?

Hell the common people don't care one bit about who killed who. They want food and peace, that's it. they say this in the show more than once.

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1 minute ago, dbunting said:

The majority of the kingdom you speak of is dead. The lords who are alive and matter were present know he didn't do it. They know he is imprisoned for betraying Dany and trying to stop her, so why would they hate him?

Hell the common people don't care one bit about who killed who. They want food and peace, that's it. they say this in the show more than once.

Ok. 

The majority of the kingdom isn't dead. People gossip, people care about what is happening, people are generally misinformed. Don't you remember the riot back in season 2? Do you remember that it was caused by rumors? Do you remember how unpopular Tyrion was? Do you remember him wishing that all of the nobles in KL would die? It sure would be convenient if EVERY SINGLE PERSON that attended or even heard about the trial was dead. 

Tyrion was imprisoned for disagreeing with Dany AFTER THE FACT. Do you remember what happened the Jaime for disagreeing with a King and actually doing something about it. Do you remember how his reputation haunted him for most of his adult life. 

Public opinion mattered at one point in the story. It is conveniently forgotten when fan-favorites need to get their happy ending. 

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Just now, Jaime the Goldenhand said:

Ok. 

The majority of the kingdom isn't dead. People gossip, people care about what is happening, people are generally misinformed. Don't you remember the riot back in season 2? Do you remember that it was caused by rumors? Do you remember how unpopular Tyrion was? Do you remember him wishing that all of the nobles in KL would die? It sure would be convenient if EVERY SINGLE PERSON that attended or even heard about the trial was dead. 

Tyrion was imprisoned for disagreeing with Dany AFTER THE FACT. Do you remember what happened the Jaime for disagreeing with a King and actually doing something about it. Do you remember how his reputation haunted him for most of his adult life. 

Public opinion mattered at one point in the story. It is conveniently forgotten when fan-favorites need to get their happy ending. 

The majority of Lords who were around when Tyrion was accused of regicide are dead. Hence when we see the dragon pit scene only one Lord, one single Lord is still there from S1, Lord Royce. So, I'd say that is a vast majority.

KL was burned to the ground along with most of it's inhabitants. The war of the 5 kings, the battle in the North against the dead, the battle at Casterly Rock, the burning of the Dornish army on the Greyjoy fleet(by Euron), the blowing up of Bealors sept, the sack of Highgarden, the roasting of the soldiers on the gold road, yeah, I would say that half of Westeros from Ep 1 is dead. Hell I'm not even counting the 100,000 wildlings that now number about 100.

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2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I think the worst of the worst is Bronn. Master of coin and lord of highgarden instead of being killed in the spot by tyrion.

Yeah this one I have an issue with. Let him live, ok, Highgarden, yeah ok, I mean someone has to run it why not someone who you know? But a seat on the small council and being named master of coin, no.

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41 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Yeah this one I have an issue with. Let him live, ok, Highgarden, yeah ok, I mean someone has to run it why not someone who you know? But a seat on the small council and being named master of coin, no.

Even highgarden is ridiculous. I mean, It's the biggest castle in the Reach and generally the person who sits there is the one who controls the Reach. All lords are okay with that?

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3 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Even highgarden is ridiculous. I mean, It's the biggest castle in the Reach and generally the person who sits there is the one who controls the Reach. All lords are okay with that?

Him getting any castle other than Harrenhal or Eastwatch is ridiculous really.

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