Ghostlydragon Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 16 hours ago, butterweedstrover said: No where has it been said Stannis burns Shireen. No where. Sites make that assumption in the summary but else wise its not true. Exactly. The is no proof Stannis will do this. If anything he'd be more likely to burn himself alive if put in that position. The most likely ones to do that will be Melisandre and/or Selyse, or the wildlings out of belief the greyscale will come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 On 9/18/2020 at 1:31 AM, Ghostlydragon said: Exactly. The is no proof Stannis will do this. If anything he'd be more likely to burn himself alive if put in that position. The most likely ones to do that will be Melisandre and/or Selyse, or the wildlings out of belief the greyscale will come back. What do you think Edric represented? If not foreshadowing then, what? I always thought that if Stannis thought (or...was told) it was his duty to burn his daughter to save the world, then he'd grind his teeth and do it. That's both a good and bad quality. He wouldnt burn himself because he thinks he has to be king. That's also good...and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) On 9/21/2020 at 10:47 PM, Rose of Red Lake said: What do you think Edric represented? If not foreshadowing then, what? I always thought that if Stannis thought (or...was told) it was his duty to burn his daughter to save the world, then he'd grind his teeth and do it. That's both a good and bad quality. He wouldnt burn himself because he thinks he has to be king. That's also good...and bad. Unfortunately, you’re right. Martin has confirmed, in James Hibberd’s oral history , that Stannis will burn his daughter. That also shows that the pink letter is a lie, and he’s still alive, as at the end of ADWD. Bran’s treatment of Hodor is described as “an obscenity”. That might suggest Bran’s becoming king is a nightmare, like Leto II. Apparently, Hodor dies, wielding a sword, as Bran wargs his mind. Other than that, he says the main characters have “different endings.” The “Holy Shit” moments are the death of Hodor, Bran’s kingship, and Stannis burning Shireen. Edited October 6, 2020 by SeanF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 5:59 PM, butterweedstrover said: No where has it been said Stannis burns Shireen. No where. Sites make that assumption in the summary but else wise its not true. How do you feel now after the last revelations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 To fresh things up in this thread, giving the latest informations we got from "Fire can not kill a dragon", what do you guys think, how the books may come to the conclusion of - Stanis burning Shiren (although that was spoiled by D&D during season 5) - Bran becoming King (although that was spoiled after Season 8 by the actor of Bran and by HBO) This time, we have in addition the confirmation by GRRM though. So we can stop asking if, and instead move forward and ask how. Should be far more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 7:50 PM, SeanF said: Unfortunately, you’re right. Martin has confirmed, in James Hibberd’s oral history , that Stannis will burn his daughter. That also shows that the pink letter is a lie, and he’s still alive, as at the end of ADWD. Bran’s treatment of Hodor is described as “an obscenity”. That might suggest Bran’s becoming king is a nightmare, like Leto II. Apparently, Hodor dies, wielding a sword, as Bran wargs his mind. Other than that, he says the main characters have “different endings.” The “Holy Shit” moments are the death of Hodor, Bran’s kingship, and Stannis burning Shireen. 2 hours ago, Dalinar said: To fresh things up in this thread, giving the latest informations we got from "Fire can not kill a dragon", what do you guys think, how the books may come to the conclusion of - Stanis burning Shiren (although that was spoiled by D&D during season 5) - Bran becoming King (although that was spoiled after Season 8 by the actor of Bran and by HBO) This time, we have in addition the confirmation by GRRM though. So we can stop asking if, and instead move forward and ask how. Should be far more interesting. Where has grrm confirmed all this stuff? He really said bran will end up as king? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 minute ago, divica said: Where has grrm confirmed all this stuff? He really said bran will end up as king? Yes, its in the new book, he says the three what the fuck twists were stannis burning shireen, bran becoming king and hold the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Yes, its in the new book, he says the three what the fuck twists were stannis burning shireen, bran becoming king and hold the door. Well, I think that almost confirms that I won t like the books... Unless it becomes one of those things that grrm realises doesn t work while he is writing (and it seems to happen a lot) then I think these final books will be meh. By the way, the interview I read said that grrm told them who would be on the IT at the end in 2013. Doesn t mean he didn t change his mind or that D&D actually went along with it. Because if they knew bran would be king of at least 6 kingdoms for so long they completly failed to tell the story of how that is possible. Until s8 all of us would think it was impossible. PS another possibity that isn t taken into account is that bran might be the last to sit in the IT because he is there when someone burns the throne... Edited October 10, 2020 by divica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, divica said: Well, I think that almost confirms that I won t like the books... Unless it becomes one of those things that grrm realises doesn t work while he is writing (and it seems to happen a lot) then I think these final books will be meh. By the way, the interview I read said that grrm told them who would be on the IT at the end in 2013. Doesn t mean he didn t change his mind or that D&D actually went along with it. Because if they knew bran would be king of at least 6 kingdoms for so long they completly failed to tell the story of how that is possible. Until s8 all of us would think it was impossible. PS another possibity that isn t taken into account is that bran might be the last to sit in the IT because he is there when someone burns the throne... That sounds a little like wishful thinking. Of course GRRM is never going to write the last book, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that the D's would create a twist to empower a character they did NOT like. They robbed Jon Snow of the NK kill for the very reason they were jealous of Kit Harrington and thought Jon with all of his heroic morality was boring, so they gave it to Arya even though it made no sense and ruined by Jon and Dany's storylines. There is no way they would take a character they never liked, Bran, in a story they sidelined since season 4, and put him on the throne unless GRRM told them this was the end. As for George, since I find him capable of almost any BS, he's capable of changing his ending that won't be written even though he has always said he won't do that. Certainly GRRM version of the story will not be brutally insane and stupid, but I doubt I will like the end of the sage either. He would also have been capable of not giving the D's the details on how Bran would become King in order to preserve something for the books, letting them of course come up with something totally asinine. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Cas Stark said: That sounds a little like wishful thinking. Of course GRRM is never going to write the last book, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that the D's would create a twist to empower a character they did NOT like. They robbed Jon Snow of the NK kill for the very reason they were jealous of Kit Harrington and thought Jon with all of his heroic morality was boring, so they gave it to Arya even though it made no sense and ruined by Jon and Dany's storylines. There is no way they would take a character they never liked, Bran, in a story they sidelined since season 4, and put him on the throne unless GRRM told them this was the end. As for George, since I find him capable of almost any BS, he's capable of changing his ending that won't be written even though he has always said he won't do that. Certainly GRRM version of the story will not be brutally insane and stupid, but I doubt I will like the end of the sage either. He would also have been capable of not giving the D's the details on how Bran would become King in order to preserve something for the books, letting them of course come up with something totally asinine. IMO My friend, you are forgetting that the Ds might prefer empower characters they didn t like in order to ruin characters/actors they hated. I can t accept that they knew bran would be king since season 3 and never made it believable. It is just too bad to be true. At most I can accept that grrm told them a vague ending that they never planned to fully use. And bran being the king at the end was decided only before s8. Anything much different from this is just doesn t make sense to me. Hell, can you imagine grrm at the end of s7? He needed to know it was impossible to put bran on the throne in 6 episodes. I would like to know if he forced some of the endings of GOT. I mean, would he accept an ending with Jon and Danny married and ruling westeros if this is the ending he intended? Wouldn t he be very pressured to have a similar ending in the books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, divica said: My friend, you are forgetting that the Ds might prefer empower characters they didn t like in order to ruin characters/actors they hated. I can t accept that they knew bran would be king since season 3 and never made it believable. It is just too bad to be true. At most I can accept that grrm told them a vague ending that they never planned to fully use. And bran being the king at the end was decided only before s8. Anything much different from this is just doesn t make sense to me. Hell, can you imagine grrm at the end of s7? He needed to know it was impossible to put bran on the throne in 6 episodes. I would like to know if he forced some of the endings of GOT. I mean, would he accept an ending with Jon and Danny married and ruling westeros if this is the ending he intended? Wouldn t he be very pressured to have a similar ending in the books? I don't know what you are up to, but GRRM has confirmed it in the new book I mentioned "Fire can not kill a dragon". So it is not a question if, and certainly not a question of "D&D". They have nothing to do with that. Edited October 10, 2020 by Dalinar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Dalinar said: I don't know what you are up to, but GRRM has confirmed it in the new book I mentioned "Fire can not kill a dragon". So it is not a question if, and certainly not a question of "D&D". They have nothing to do with that. Have nothing to do with what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, divica said: Have nothing to do with what? With what GRRM has confirmed will happen in his books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Just now, Dalinar said: With what GRRM has confirmed will happen in his books What I said is. After season 7 did you think it was possible for bran to become king? If I am not mistaken he even says he can t be the lord of anything because he is the 3er... If you are grrm and want the ending of GoT to be similar to your books wouldn t you pressure HBO and D&D to make sure certain things happen like bran ending as king? So how many of the endings we saw are a result of D&D inability to create a story that fits grrm demands for s8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, divica said: What I said is. After season 7 did you think it was possible for bran to become king? If I am not mistaken he even says he can t be the lord of anything because he is the 3er... If you are grrm and want the ending of GoT to be similar to your books wouldn t you pressure HBO and D&D to make sure certain things happen like bran ending as king? So how many of the endings we saw are a result of D&D inability to create a story that fits grrm demands for s8? I am sorry, I can not follow you. Are you saying GRRM was lying about Bran? I just don't get it. Yes the revelation that Bran becomes King came out of nowhere in the Show. That is "D&D" style of Storytelling after Season 6. Reverse Expectation. But what is your point? You asked first where GRRM has confirmed that Bran becomes King. I told you. Then you started a discussion about whatever this is. I can assure you two things: 1. Bran becomes King in the show. 2. Bran becomes King in the book. That is what we now know. Edited October 11, 2020 by Dalinar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 13 hours ago, divica said: What I said is. After season 7 did you think it was possible for bran to become king? If I am not mistaken he even says he can t be the lord of anything because he is the 3er... If you are grrm and want the ending of GoT to be similar to your books wouldn t you pressure HBO and D&D to make sure certain things happen like bran ending as king? So how many of the endings we saw are a result of D&D inability to create a story that fits grrm demands for s8? TBH, I think that GRRM wore out his welcome very early on by complaining about things that were not really important, like Robert's boar hunt and the killing of the singer--and also that once the show became successful the D's felt that they didn't need GRRM anymore--so by the time there really were terrible, terrible decisions being made and a need for GRRM's help on the plot, or any good TV writer's help, the bridges were burned from both ends. If you had already argued that Marillion is important and his arc must be preserved, then of course, they stopped listening to him on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: TBH, I think that GRRM wore out his welcome very early on by complaining about things that were not really important, like Robert's boar hunt and the killing of the singer--and also that once the show became successful the D's felt that they didn't need GRRM anymore--so by the time there really were terrible, terrible decisions being made and a need for GRRM's help on the plot, or any good TV writer's help, the bridges were burned from both ends. If you had already argued that Marillion is important and his arc must be preserved, then of course, they stopped listening to him on everything. I'm sure Ding & Dong thought they were better writers than Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, SeanF said: I'm sure Ding & Dong thought they were better writers than Martin. Sure, and why wouldn't they? They had the biggest show on television and critics applauding them for how great the show would be once they were freed from the books, LOL, that was at the start of season 5. But we know how that went. Freed from the books they devolved the show into tropes upon tropes upon tropes they hoped to hide by SubvertingExpectationsTM injecting the show with insane, inorganic plot twists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) Do you think that the sacking/massacre of KL will happen after the war for dawn or before? Does GRRM intend to end the series with Dannys deconstruction like the show did, or will the battle against the WW end the series? Knowing how things unfolded in the show, makes it hard for me to see a scenario where Danny sacks KL and then contiues to fight with the rest of Westeros side by side against the WW and then die. It seems odd and quite frankly stupid. If she gest killed by Jon after the sacking and then the war against the WW happens, then she wont be part in the fight against the WW, and I don't see that happen either. What are your thoughts on that? Edited October 23, 2020 by Dalinar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 5/31/2019 at 6:30 PM, divica said: But a group of people will decide together the fate of the kingdom. It is a kind of democracy... And it would lead to the kingdoms separating… No it’s not. It’s an aristocratic oligarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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