SeanF Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: The bold x 1 trillion. Seriously. Mord the “small-business owner” is what the show needed for sure. Actually a US journalist friend has told me that that interview is a classic "Dead Cat", designed to divert attention away from what is probably going to be a poorly reviewed production of Three Body Problem. kissdbyfire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) On 6/27/2023 at 11:26 PM, csuszka1948 said: : GRRM has previously compared the Iron Throne to the work of Ozymandias: "This Iron Throne is scary. And not at all a comfortable seat, just as Aegon intended. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair. " and this scene is a parallel to the scene described in the Ozymandias poem (just with snow and ash instead of sand): Dany, the traveler from an antique land arrives to Westeros, but all she finds from the great Aegon's (Ozymandias's) work is the Iron Throne, and all around it is decay and colossal wreck (ash and snow coating the remains of the Red Keep). The rest of the scene is also telling: Dany - seeing how even the work of a great tyrant like Aegon turned to decay over time - rejects the Throne and turns her attentions North. I thought it a real cheat for the two D's to say this foreshadowed Dany's burning King's Landing. Almost everyone at the time took it that the throne room was filled with snow, signifying the approach of the Others. Edited January 22 by SeanF House Cambodia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/20/2024 at 2:44 PM, kissdbyfire said: The bold x 1 trillion. Seriously. Mord the “small-business owner” is what the show needed for sure. It’s really sticking the middle finger up at the fandom. kissdbyfire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, SeanF said: It’s really sticking the middle finger up at the fandom. That’s the one thing they excelled at. SeanF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: That’s the one thing they excelled at. It became obvious they had no real interest in the series after the Red Wedding. They ought to have passed it on to other producers, and/or hired proper writers to produce the scripts. The only time they've talked about the show, at the Austin Film Festival in 2019, it became clear they had never had a clue what they were doing. kissdbyfire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 6/27/2023 at 5:26 PM, csuszka1948 said: It's telling that Ned Stark is biased against the Lannisters and is manipulated by the lies of Lysa and LF, nothing more. Tyrion is in part at fault for his bad reputation at the end of ASOS by his actions in ACOK and later, but he is not really at fault for his previous reputation (only for the whoring part). I don't believe it will happen. I think Dany will leave to Essos. Logistically, it's difficult to explain how (and why) would the Dothraki and Unsullied leave Westeros after Dany is betrayed and killed, they would wreak further havoc in the continent. Many people in the series state it, but I don't think we ought to view Tywin's murder as inexcusable, that's Shae's murder. GRRM stated that he views Tyrion as the most competent ruler from all characters in the series, so I think it's not impossible. Tywin was bad because he put House Lannister's interest above the realm, Tyrion (at the end of ADOS) will not do this, I think he will even reject becoming Lord of Casterly Rock. We won't know Tyrion's acts during the Second 'Long Night', but it's possible he will contribute a lot to final victory. Besides, Bran being King also doesn't make much sense in the current context of the series, but GRRM is going to make it happen. Realistically, Bran wouldn't be first choice of the lords as King. Yes, the ending will be bittersweet, but that's ADOS for you, not TWOW. It's pretty much confirmed that children will be dying in droves: Tommen, Myrcella and Shireen are almost certain to die in this novel. Rickon would pretty much fit in. A succession crisis between Jon and Rickon is essentially a choice between Jon and Stannis, and if Stannis both frees Winterfell and brings back Rickon, the Northern lords would almost certainly accept him as their King; if he fails in bringing back Rickon, they will probably prefer Jon (especially once he comes with an army of wildlings on WF as reinforcement, who definitely only follow Jon), and that's what makes sense from storytelling perspective (knowing that Jon is a main character and Stannis is not). I don't think it will literally end it, it will symbolize that the 'game of thrones' has to be (temporarily) put aside to fight against the Others. I don't see that Tyrion's passage necessarily foreshadows a dance between Targaryens, only that he interacts with them (and it's 6 'dragons', Dany, Aegon, Aemon, Jon and two others) and influences them, for example by causing Aegon to go west instead of east (which is a major decision). If Aegon's campaign resulted in the blowing up of KL, it's difficult to see how he (the King who has taken KL) would avoid death, much less what chance would his side have against Dany in such scenario. Who is going to sit on the Iron Throne when the Mother of Dragons arrives? Maybe Euron, but probably nobody, because the Iron Throne ultimately doesn't matter. There was a scene in season 2 (when the showrunners still actively worked with GRRM) in the House of Undying that pretty much foreshadows this: GRRM has previously compared the Iron Throne to the work of Ozymandias: "This Iron Throne is scary. And not at all a comfortable seat, just as Aegon intended. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair. " and this scene is a parallel to the scene described in the Ozymandias poem (just with snow and ash instead of sand): Dany, the traveler from an antique land arrives to Westeros, but all she finds from the great Aegon's (Ozymandias's) work is the Iron Throne, and all around it is decay and colossal wreck (ash and snow coating the remains of the Red Keep). The rest of the scene is also telling: Dany - seeing how even the work of a great tyrant like Aegon turned to decay over time - rejects the Throne and turns her attentions North. You bring up a lot of good points. Especially the point about the inevitable nuclear fallout if Dany should be betrayed and murdered in one of her chambers. The Unsullied and Dothraki and all of the other ex-slaves would make a holocaust out of it. ----------- A choice between Jon and Rickon can be seen as a choice between Jon and Stannis, that's true.... ...but it can also be seen as a choice between Jon, their daughter and Stannis. Rickon can be much more easily commandeered and used as a puppet than Jon by any one of the northern families who seek to advance their position and interests. And given the fact that he is trueborn while Jon is still baseborn makes Rickon more appealing to the more traditional, political-minded northern lords. ----------- Aegon can wipe the city off the face of the map and still survive. Not only is it very plausible, but no one said that he'd survived unscathed. Besides, I don't even think Aegon will be the one to do it. I think it'll be JonCon who does it. ----------- If you don't see the foreshadowing of the Targaryen claimants going at each other's throats, then i guess that's your perspective and opinion. Millions would say that you are wrong though. ----------- Bran being King does make sense. As the true heir of both Robb Stark and Shella Whent, Bran will have an ironclad claim as both overlord of Harrenhal and Winterfell and the current nominal King of the independent North and Riverlands. Should something happen to Sweetrobin and Harry Hardyng both (likely), Bran has a strong claim over the Eyrie and the Vale as well. And then there's the matter of how his immense psychic powers and the beyond-his-years wisdom and calmness will make him a war hero. Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there. Like @SeanF said that Iron Throne imagery is not landing. It's clearly snow in that broken room and it points to the apocalyptic coming of the Others not to the unimportance of the Iron Throne...particularly since the next scene shows Dany choosing to walk away from the IT and go beyond the Wall to I feel like whoever is sitting on the Iron Throne during the onset of the Long Night and throughout its duration is going to be partially (if not completely) at fault for the most of the madness. Either it'll be a willful and purposeful evil, mismanagement done out of bitter jealousy and ignorance, or a well-intentioned but manic and pitifully distracted hack-job On 1/19/2024 at 7:06 PM, kissdbyfire said: The show means nothing. It’s always meant nothing. And since there are no more R&R threads, I’ll share this new D&D gem here. Know what is the one regret the geniuses have about the show? NOT BRINGING MORD BACK. Yup, that’s it, that’s their one regret, not the gazillion trillion fuck ups and idiotic things they’ve done. Nope, the one solitary regret, not bringing Mord back. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/game-of-thrones-showrunners-one-change-mord-1235785674/ D&D, the gift that keeps on giving. JFC. They're trolling because they are bitter AF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, BlackLightning said: You bring up a lot of good points. Especially the point about the inevitable nuclear fallout if Dany should be betrayed and murdered in one of her chambers. The Unsullied and Dothraki and all of the other ex-slaves would make a holocaust out of it. ----------- A choice between Jon and Rickon can be seen as a choice between Jon and Stannis, that's true.... ...but it can also be seen as a choice between Jon, their daughter and Stannis. Rickon can be much more easily commandeered and used as a puppet than Jon by any one of the northern families who seek to advance their position and interests. And given the fact that he is trueborn while Jon is still baseborn makes Rickon more appealing to the more traditional, political-minded northern lords. ----------- Aegon can wipe the city off the face of the map and still survive. Not only is it very plausible, but no one said that he'd survived unscathed. Besides, I don't even think Aegon will be the one to do it. I think it'll be JonCon who does it. ----------- If you don't see the foreshadowing of the Targaryen claimants going at each other's throats, then i guess that's your perspective and opinion. Millions would say that you are wrong though. ----------- Bran being King does make sense. As the true heir of both Robb Stark and Shella Whent, Bran will have an ironclad claim as both overlord of Harrenhal and Winterfell and the current nominal King of the independent North and Riverlands. Should something happen to Sweetrobin and Harry Hardyng both (likely), Bran has a strong claim over the Eyrie and the Vale as well. And then there's the matter of how his immense psychic powers and the beyond-his-years wisdom and calmness will make him a war hero. Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there. Like @SeanF said that Iron Throne imagery is not landing. It's clearly snow in that broken room and it points to the apocalyptic coming of the Others not to the unimportance of the Iron Throne...particularly since the next scene shows Dany choosing to walk away from the IT and go beyond the Wall to I feel like whoever is sitting on the Iron Throne during the onset of the Long Night and throughout its duration is going to be partially (if not completely) at fault for the most of the madness. Either it'll be a willful and purposeful evil, mismanagement done out of bitter jealousy and ignorance, or a well-intentioned but manic and pitifully distracted hack-job They're trolling because they are bitter AF How I want Three Body Problem to crash and burn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 hours ago, SeanF said: How I want Three Body Problem to crash and burn! I don't think it's going to do well. I don't think they have the chops for this kind of project. I wonder how they got ahold of the rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, BlackLightning said: I don't think it's going to do well. I don't think they have the chops for this kind of project. I wonder how they got ahold of the rights. I don’t care. i hope they are humiliated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 18 hours ago, SeanF said: I don’t care. i hope they are humiliated. They may very well be... The story, concepts and themes of 3BC is a lot more complex than ASOIAF given that the former is pure sci-fi with a side of multiverse action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 1/31/2024 at 7:20 AM, BlackLightning said: Bran as endgame King makes sense. It's just that it's going to take a lot to get us there. Like another four books probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 As vile as Tyrion is much of the time, I do think people overlook some of the good things he does in the books, like giving Bran the design for a saddle, making friends with Jon Snow (Jon is a good judge of character), protecting Sansa from Joffrey, and some other stuff that I'm probably forgetting. Personally I see him as a grey character. I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStoneheart Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 On 2/28/2024 at 3:47 PM, Darryk said: I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow. I'm exactly the same. I started reading the books after Season 3 and could only picture Peter Dinklage, however after listening to them on Audible 3 or 4 times now, Roy Detroice's voice for Tyrion is like a Cornish/Welsh sort of accent and the way he says his lines just captures Tyrion's book character perfectly in my opinion. Very easy to love him but also see him be a bad person gradually getting worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) On 2/28/2024 at 9:47 AM, Darryk said: As vile as Tyrion is much of the time, I do think people overlook some of the good things he does in the books, like giving Bran the design for a saddle, making friends with Jon Snow (Jon is a good judge of character), protecting Sansa from Joffrey, and some other stuff that I'm probably forgetting. Personally I see him as a grey character. I do admit that I like him less and less with each reread. I loved him the first time I read the books (after season 2 of the show) because I was picturing the Peter Dinklage version but as I started to pay more attention to how he's portrayed in the books, I realised he is a rather awful fellow. Yes. The more you reread the worse Tyrion looks (and the better other characters like Catelyn look) I don't think we overlook the good things he does in the books. It's just that some of us can see right through it. The good things he does (i.e. protecting Sansa from Joffrey) are half-assed and more about his own ego and image instead of doing the right thing because it's the right thing. The fact that Tyrion knows Robert's murder and the whole onset of the War of the Five Kings is, at its core, all about Cersei's wrongful lust for power and his response was to accumulate more power than her at a faster rate to surpassing Cersei's lust for power with his own is telling... And to be honest, I do not believe that Jon is a good judge of character. Or at least, he doesn't act on many of his good judgments which makes him being a good judge of character pointless. If he did, he would've seen the problem that was Bowen Marsh coming from a mile away. Also there's no way that Jon thought he was going to be able to maintain his position as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch with the Boltons in Winterfell and the Lannisters behind the Iron Throne. Edited March 21 by BlackLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, BlackLightning said: Yes. The more you reread the worse Tyrion looks (and the better other characters like Catelyn look) I don't think we overlook the good things he does in the books. It's just that some of us can see right through it. The good things he does (i.e. protecting Sansa from Joffrey) are half-assed and more about his own ego and image instead of doing the right thing because it's the right thing. The fact that Tyrion knows Robert's murder and the whole onset of the War of the Five Kings is, at its core, all about Cersei's wrongful lust for power and his response was to accumulate more power and to surpass Cersei's lust for power. And to be honest, I do not believe that Jon is a good judge of character. Or at least, he doesn't act on many of his good judgments which makes him being a good judge of character pointless. If he did, he would've seen the problem that was Bowen Marsh coming from a mile away. Also there's no way that Jon thought he was going to be able to maintain his position as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch with the Boltons in Winterfell and the Lannisters behind the Iron Throne. He was very much the two D's favourite, and George Martin's too, but for different reasons. The two D's saw him as a virtual saint, one of the few good men in terrible world. George Martin loves him as a cunning villain, like Richard III or Harry Flashman. I do think that when a character is overly favoured by their creator, a lot of people will push back against that, the same way that a lot of people push back against a character being overly vilified. It's a particular issue with fanfiction, where quite often, an author will stan so hard for a character that the reader will end up hating them. I think that a lot of viewers of the series hated Tyrion by the end, because we were told how wise and humane he was, but what we were shown was that he was inept and treacherous. Tyrion in the books goes beyond being an amusing rogue, to being pretty vile in ADWD. BlackLightning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 On 2/1/2024 at 3:26 AM, BlackLightning said: I don't think it's going to do well. I don't think they have the chops for this kind of project. I wonder how they got ahold of the rights. As a fan of ROEP and the 30-episode Chinese version of 3-BP, I've just seen that D&D have chosen to centre the series on 5 characters who don't exist in the book. Uh-oh. We've already seen how they took superbly well-developed characters in ASOIAF and trashed them. Inventing new characters from scratch does NOT feel like a great move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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