Jump to content
Free Northman Reborn

Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

Recommended Posts

Throwing in my two cents :

 

Same what, different how :

- Dany going dark/mad. The way the show did it was ridiculous, but it's definitely happening in the books

- Sansa as QITN

- Euron/Cersei alliance

- Jaime/Brienne banging

- R+L=J

- Theon dying

-Jorah's sacrifice

 

On the fence :

- Bran as king. There's definitely a lot more set up for it in the books, but Bran is also a lot younger so idk how that would work out.

- Jaime and Cersei dying together . It's a possibility but 1) Jaime won't be there to protect her/run away with her (he might be the one that kills her) 2) I feel, wrt his weirwood dream, he is more likely to die fighting during the Long Night.

- Brienne as KG : again, I won't discard it but the books put a lot more emphasis on her being the heir to Tarth imo.

- Arya leaving to explore the world : not OOC but not widely satisfying either. It'd depend on how it's written, just like with everything.

- Jon going in exile : see above.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, DMC said:

I think it's really silly to suggest that-wise, in my opinion, and I don't care who's doing it.

I don't see Bran leaving the cave. The weirwood is growing thru Bloodraven.

Quote

Roots coiled around his legs like wooden serpents. One burrowed through his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted his brow... Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.... But once inside the wood they linger long indeed.

Bran will need the same to become a greenseer. They gave him seeds to eat. They gave him a throne. The cave is his place.

Quote

The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat...Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.

The cave is a place of power. Where all the greenseers are. The place from were the Old Gods power can be used.

Quote

One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak.

Bran is a cripple. But I can become much more than a king.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Staenerys Stargaryen said:

If Euron is able to use the horn and get a dragon for himself... Any chance he burns down kings landing before Dany gets to westeros?

Nope.

Because Daenerys and her dragons are on the other side of the world. The dragonhorn (if that's what it really is) was already been blown in Feast. None of the dragons came when it was blown.

I totally think Daenerys is going to destroy a couple of cities. But she's going to have a good reason to do burn them...especially King's Landing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Nope.

Because Daenerys and her dragons are on the other side of the world. The dragonhorn (if that's what it really is) was already been blown in Feast. None of the dragons came when it was blown.

I totally think Daenerys is going to destroy a couple of cities. But she's going to have a good reason to do burn them...especially King's Landing.

The dragons did not hear the horn being blown in feast.... You think its going to be a big fail?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Staenerys Stargaryen said:

The dragons did not hear the horn being blown in feast.... You think its going to be a big fail?

I think there must be more to it that just blowing it, otherwise anyone could control a dragon by just getting a hold of the horn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I think there must be more to it that just blowing it, otherwise anyone could control a dragon by just getting a hold of the horn.

Bearing in mind that Moqorro has fiddled with it, on top of anything Euron might have done to the horn previously (he likely had the Qartheen warlocks with him), I hope something happens. Even if it's just a spectacular misfire!

Edited by Ser Hedge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:

The first 5 books timeline is over the course of just under 3 years, its difficult to imagine that the next two will be significantly more than that.

I can't see an entire continent changing religion that quickly, not unless the Old Gods manifest themselves and speak directly to the people.

Well, sometimes things change quite quickly, if the circumstances are ripe for it. For instance, look at the drastic changes that happened in large parts of Byzantine Empire between 628 and 634, ditto the fall of the Sassanid Empire, etc. with attendant changes in religions. _If_ GRRM is actually serious about the devastation that the Others, the wars and the grayscale epidemic _should_ bring, a strong resurgence of the Old Gods religion isn't out of the question, provided that it is shown to be effective, where the Faith is revealed as impotent. And the Red religion will come to be seen as malignant, I guess, since they are part of "Fire", which is apparently supposed to be as bad as the Others(?!!). Not something that I can behind - surely Valyria was this at it's peak, but it seems to be GRRM's plan, so them's the breaks.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:

I really don't get this train of thought. The story is the story, its not about breaking the wheel, its about an apocalyptic once in a millennia invasion.

I am not talking about the meaningless sound-bytes from the show, which have no basis in the books. But as you say - apocalyptic, which _should_ mean radical change regardless of any people's plans. Westeros has been frozen in a very primitive form of feudalism for millenia, apparently - surely it is time for something to kick at least parts of it into Renaissance? Or even more sophisticated late Middle Ages, with a reasonable number of towns and cities, proper justiciary, etc. With the devastations taking the role the Black Death had iRL. Die-off among higher nobility would help with all of that.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:

In the books there are plenty of Arryns. I'd imagine there are also other branches of Tully's and Baratheons, those two Houses have had their Houses forfeit.

So? Noble Arryns as rulers of the Vale still can end. And Bran is the Tully heir after Edmure and his unborn kid - which could bolster his claim to kingship, given that he'd be somebody from a formerly royal House and in control of the 2 important territories - potentially. The Riverlands would make a good royal domain in the future.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:

The realm being fixed because a magical guy is in charge is much sillier than Tolkien not talking about Aragon's tax policies.

Indeed, Martin's quote does look like a mean joke in hindsight.

On 5/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:

All three are better options than a cripple who can sire children.

Not nearly as important. Roman Empire and Byzantine Em

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Staenerys Stargaryen said:

The dragons did not hear the horn being blown in feast.... You think its going to be a big fail?

No.

But Euron is nowhere near the dragons or Daenerys and he won't be anywhere near them for some time. He's busy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Staenerys Stargaryen said:

The dragons did not hear the horn being blown in feast.... You think its going to be a big fail?

They did not hear because the horn was in the Iron Islands and the dragons at Meereen. This is why Victarion and Moqorro are going to Meereen. Moqorro, or the High Priest Benerro, knew the Selaesori Qhoran would not reach Qarth, but her wreckage would cross Victarion's path. So I expect they know their business and will not waste their time chasing after dragons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maia said:

And Bran is the Tully heir after Edmure and his unborn kid - which could bolster his claim to kingship, given that he'd be somebody from a formerly royal House and in control of the 2 important territories - potentially. The Riverlands would make a good royal domain in the future.

Actually, with robb's will legitimazing jon bran isn t the heir...

As robb's heir jon is the one that is in control of the north and whatever domain's robb had in the riverlands (at the moment I am not sure how far his kingdom went).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, divica said:

Actually, with robb's will legitimazing jon bran isn t the heir...

As robb's heir jon is the one that is in control of the north and whatever domain's robb had in the riverlands (at the moment I am not sure how far his kingdom went).

Good point, though the technical objection would be "we don't know that for sure".

If you want to backfit Bran becoming King of the 7K into the book story, then well, Bran would be Jon's heir to the kingdom Robb established, so if Jon abdicates, we arrive at @Maia's scenario via a different route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, divica said:

Actually, with robb's will legitimazing jon bran isn t the heir...

As robb's heir jon is the one that is in control of the north and whatever domain's robb had in the riverlands (at the moment I am not sure how far his kingdom went).

The Riverlands swore fealty to the Crown after Robb's death. Robb's heirs claim on the Riverlands is gone, it died with him at the Red Wedding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Riverlands swore fealty to the Crown after Robb's death. Robb's heirs claim on the Riverlands is gone, it died with him at the Red Wedding.

All kingdoms also swore fealty to robert and danny thinks she has a claim to the IT...

Given the bad relations between the riverlands and the lannisters under the right conditions they would honnor the will...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, divica said:

All kingdoms also swore fealty to robert and danny thinks she has a claim to the IT...

Given the bad relations between the riverlands and the lannisters under the right conditions they would honnor the will...

Given many of the Lords who agreed to crown Robb as their king are no longer Lords or have since sworn new oaths of fealty it does not make sense that they'd agree to follow Jon and reignite another war in the books.

Robb made sense

  • He was half Tully
  • He was betrothed to a Riverlander
  • He saved some of the Lords at Riverrun
  • They needed him to stick around while they were at war with the Lannisters
  • His army was with him

Jon does not make sense to become their king. Aegon makes more sense as does Dany but unless Jon is riding a dragon I see no reason the Riverland lords are going to want him as King in the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Given many of the Lords who agreed to crown Robb as their king are no longer Lords or have since sworn new oaths of fealty it does not make sense that they'd agree to follow Jon and reignite another war in the books.

Robb made sense

  • He was half Tully
  • He was betrothed to a Riverlander
  • He saved some of the Lords at Riverrun
  • They needed him to stick around while they were at war with the Lannisters
  • His army was with him

Jon does not make sense to become their king. Aegon makes more sense as does Dany but unless Jon is riding a dragon I see no reason the Riverland lords are going to want him as King in the books.

Neither jon arryn, ned or hoster tully have any afection for joffrey. However they would have followed him simply because he was robert's heir.

They already gave their vows to follow robb. Them following his heir is a result of the vows they made to robb. The people still resisting in the riverlands used direwolves standards (if I remember right)...

And with uncat and the blackfish it makes sense that they will try to make the riverlands follow robb's heir in order to continue the fight. And I doubt that the riverlords prefer a targaryen to a stark...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, according to Isaac Hempstead Wright, King Bran is actually a plotpoint from GRRM:

"[Creators] David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] told me there were two things [author] George R.R. Martin had planned for Bran, and that was the Hodor revelation, and that he would be king. So that’s pretty special to be directly involved in something that is part of George’s vision. It was a really nice way to wrap it up."

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/season-8-episode-6-finale-isaac-hempstead-wright-bran-interview

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Einheri said:

So, according to Isaac Hempstead Wright, King Bran is actually a plotpoint from GRRM:

"[Creators] David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] told me there were two things [author] George R.R. Martin had planned for Bran, and that was the Hodor revelation, and that he would be king. So that’s pretty special to be directly involved in something that is part of George’s vision. It was a really nice way to wrap it up."

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/season-8-episode-6-finale-isaac-hempstead-wright-bran-interview

Didn't they promise they won't specify any more what George told them what is sure to happen in the novel after Shireen backlash.

They can't do anything right...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2019 at 2:13 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

I don't see Bran leaving the cave. The weirwood is growing thru Bloodraven.

Bran will need the same to become a greenseer. They gave him seeds to eat. They gave him a throne. The cave is his place.

The cave is a place of power. Where all the greenseers are. The place from were the Old Gods power can be used.

Bran is a cripple. But I can become much more than a king.

There's an interview with Isaac that just came out where he talks about learning from the showrunners the two big surprises they brought him for his character straight from Martin: the Hodor revelation was the one, and him becoming king was the other. 

It's quite a positive interview. I'll see if I can find it again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×