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AlaerysTargaryen

My biggest issue with the finale is that they tried to make us feel guilty for supporting Daenerys' journey.

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47 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

I don't disagree that this might well be an issue in how it the show has come across, but IMHO I don't think that was meant to be a part of the story when George built this world originally.  Valyria is in Essos as well, with its descendants (Dany's ethnic group) dominating Volantis and the free cities. They are in league with the Ghiscari slavers. In this universe, anyone can be enslaved including "white people" i.e. you have Lyseni (ethnic Valyrian) bed slaves, you have Tyrion and Jorah enslaved. It should not have been a race thing from our real world at all. Unfortunately the show made it look like sinister Middle Eastern looking dudes enslaved Black and I don't know Asian people who had to be rescued by a white woman. There should really have been Valyrian dudes collaborating with the slavers and there should have been more white slaves as well to reflect the world created originally by George.

And Essos overall is not inferior to Wessos, it has better roads, better technology (e.g. Myrish glass I.e. telescopes), cities bigger than Wessos. It was meant to be very different from Wessos of course, but the parallel is not exactly Asia+Africa vs Europe in the 19th to 21st centuries.

Also, on the Valyrians, Targaryens in particular since they're the focus of the stories, their general coloration seemed more like a specific congenital trait, like albinism, then the general appearance of an ethnic group. 

Historically, many cultures have developped prejudices against albinos, in turns claiming them god touched or demon cursed. Could be the Valyrians and their 'magic', imo.

Also, the inbreeding would be an attempt at increasing the prevalence of those physical traits as a visible manifestation of the 'dragon magic'.

The show's presentation of this and it's limited scope of only showing us Aerys and his incest borne children, creates an even more falible image. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Also, on the Valyrians, Targaryens in particular since they're the focus of the stories, their general coloration seemed more like a specific congenital trait, like albinism, then the general appearance of an ethnic group. 

Yes, sure. The purple eyes and the silver hair being the traits they sought to preserve.

But just going back to observation about the "white saviour", that should not have been a thing in the universe as originally created. Sure, Essos is a very diverse place, while Westeros north of Dorne appears to be generally similar to medieval Europe, but it was never meant to be about race as we know it in our world.

Dany is never seen as "white" by her freedmen, rather as the blood of old Valyria or even "Westorosi". Her enemies see her as a Dothraki bride perhaps or again associate her with their former Valyrian overlords. Interestingly Dany has Rhoynar blood as well, will be interesting if she brings that up when she goes to free the slaves of Volantis. Anyway, coming back to the point, skin colour is not meant to be a thing on Planetos, but then if you let a couple of hacks handle it on a TV show ......

Edited by Ser Hedge

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On 6/7/2019 at 8:07 AM, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Folks were analyzing Dany’s character as far back as the mid 2000’s or earlier.  Here is a link to an essay which basically lays out her struggles with moral choices in Meereen.  There is also a reference from a reading by GRRM in an early draft of a chapter in ADWD where he has Dany explicitly saying she feared herself.  It was discussed at that time on these very forums.https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/

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2 hours ago, Ser Hedge said:

Yes, sure. The purple eyes and the silver hair being the traits they sought to preserve.

But just going back to observation about the "white saviour", that should not have been a thing in the universe as originally created. Sure, Essos is a very diverse place, while Westeros north of Dorne appears to be generally similar to medieval Europe, but it was never meant to be about race as we know it in our world.

Dany is never seen as "white" by her freedmen, rather as the blood of old Valyria or even "Westorosi". Her enemies see her as a Dothraki bride perhaps or again associate her with their former Valyrian overlords. Interestingly Dany has Rhoynar blood as well, will be interesting if she brings that up when she goes to free the slaves of Volantis. Anyway, coming back to the point, skin colour is not meant to be a thing on Planetos, but then if you let a couple of hacks handle it on a TV show ......

From a doylist perspective it would be very white savior. The author would borrow those tropes. There's just too many to list. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Folks were analyzing Dany’s character as far back as the mid 2000’s or earlier.  Here is a link to an essay which basically lays out her struggles with moral choices in Meereen.  There is also a reference from a reading by GRRM in an early draft of a chapter in ADWD where he has Dany explicitly saying she feared herself.  It was discussed at that time on these very forums.https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/

Here is a link to the poster who was summarizing for others on this forum that reading from an earlier draft. I will also C & P the relevant part.  Interesting that GRRM decided to later change it so it wasn’t so explicit.  Many readers still got it without it being plainly spelled out for them though.  I suspect D & D thought TV viewers would pick up on it too with their writing.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/49-pre-adwd-spoilers-daenerys-2-spoilers-for-adwd/&page=0

 

Dany thinks of her title, "mother of dragons," and wonders if "mother of monsters" is more appropriate. She despairs, thinking about what she may have unleashed on the world. She thinks that she is the blood of the dragon, and that if her children are monsters, then so is she.

She looks at Ser Barristan and tells him that she told Xaro that she feared only one thing, though she would not tell the merchant what. Ser Barristan guesses that she only fears her dragons. 

"Myself," Dany tells him.

 

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

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51 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

From a doylist perspective it would be very white savior. The author would borrow those tropes. There's just too many to list. 

Can be seen as a generic Messianic trope/theme, doesn't have to be white saviour I think, but I guess there will be different perceptions. 

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Not Tyrion's fault y'all got tricked into believing the book/show's white feminist propaganda. 

And since I'm damn sure book Daenerys' story ends in a similar/parallel way, I think George RR Martin is a genius fucking writer. He fooled y'all!

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I don't feel any guilt for supporting Dany's journey just like I don't feel any guilt for cheering for a modern day action hero/heroine. I mean even movie Batman kills now. With the exception of razing Kings Landing, she, like them, always seemed to portray some sense of justice when doing the the killing.

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18 hours ago, Jaghen said:

She's not the Hero Westerosi need, she is the one they deserve.

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the Mad Queen.

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