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Vashon

Dany does not have to go to Westeros

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She could always just conquer Essos, all the way up the Rhoyne, and over to the Free Cities that are on the land. Using her dragons, a united Dothraki horde, and training the underclass revoltees to smash her way into becoming Empress of Essos. The Last Dragonlord conquering all the Daughters of Valyria, smashing slavery completely, from top to bottom. Why should she bother to return to Westeros? Literally why? She has already built herself one throne close to her ancient homeland, why should she bother leaving Essos at all? 

She's never set foot in Westeros, its all Viserys and Jorah's obsession, but Dany? She was raised in the Free Cities, became a grown woman in the Dothraki grasslands, and became a sovereign in the ruins of Old Ghis. Why should she be a savior for Westeros, when there are plenty to be saved in Essos?

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Because she has a perceived 'right' to the IT. She is often conflicted re her motivations. So technically, you are right in so much as she could just take a piece of Essos and live out her days. Three dragons could of kept her safe in a fancy manse by the sea. But she would have to ignore all the prophetic visions not to mention her own instincts. 

And, personally, I think it'd be much more difficult to unify Essos. She has enough trouble holding on to Merreen. Due in no small part to her identity as a 'foreigner'.

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She doesn't have to go there, but I guess something takes her there. When the story starts, Dany is just a tool for Viserys to attack the Usurper. Then he dies, and Dany is fine with the Dothraki. And then Drogo dies, she gets dragons, and end up in Qarth. She wants ships to go back "home" here and get revenge on the man who killed her family. She wants to fulfill Viserys's dream, not really her own. And then when she doesn't get her ships, she doesn't really seem to push it, but instead is on her way to Illyrio. And then it's Jorah who suggests getting the Unsullied at Slaver's Bay so she would be better protected. That's how her Slaver's Bay arc starts. 

And her plan here is to stay in Meereen and rule, not get the IT. So the point is, there are all these events that push her towards Westeros, rather than an actual strong desire to get the IT. It's almost seems like fate. After ADwD, it's possible that Euron or Illyrio pushes her to go to Westeros. Euron might go back with "his dragon queen." Illyrio might try to marry her off to fAegon. Or she might follow Quaithe's cryptic message and go east. And there, she follows a bunch of underground tunnels and ends up in Westeros. 

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Maybe this is what's taking so long for the last couple books...

I think you are right that it makes little sense. Sure, young Dany was fed with stories of Westeros and the Iron Throne by Viserys. So of course, it is an ambition that burns within her. However, she's grown a lot since then and had lots of experiences. It's clear at this point that she cares very much for the people she rules in Meereen. I think it has certainly always been GRRM's intent to bring her to Westeros, but the longer she spends with the characters in Essos, the harder it's become to have her leave them. I wouldn't mind at all if her story takes longer in Essos and includes empire building there.

The problem is of course the threat of Winter and whether her dragons are going to be needed to fight that threat.

 

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And as a related question... why did the early Targaryen kings never conquer Essos?

They certainly had enough dragons during the first hundred or so years to give it a try.

 

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She didn't have to, but her impulsive behavior led her there. That's the big irony.

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10 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

A story doesn't have to be good.

:commie:Yes it does.

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Dany doesn't have to go to Westeros, but if she doesn't, all her plotline really accomplishes is delaying the series by however many years it takes to work out all the complications surrounding shuttling her to where she needs to be. It would be pointless to have her simply exist in a vacuum the entire series. GRRM might as well have simply written a companion trilogy about her once ASOIAF was completed. 

 

Personally, the sooner Dany gets to Westeros the happier I'll be, as the need to bounce her around Essos and ferry various characters to meet her must be creating ever-more-knotted plot complications for GRRM to unravel. 

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She doesn't have to be there. Her story arch can sum up to one Westerosi after another begging for her aid for one reason to another, and her just laughing at them, or feeding them to a dragon. Up to and including the long winter to come and pleas from the Night's Watch.

 

"Please help, the evil Others and their undead army are killing us"

"According to the histories I know of, they never attack Essos like that, it was just a weather problem, it looks to me like a Westerosi problem, probably something to do with the former inhabitants or something"

"Please help"

"No, but you are welcome to come over to Essos, awful lot of space after I united the place, I'm about to go over the Bone Mountains and conquer that too. You know, the cooler weather has made the rain fall further south, and has rejuvenated much of the Dothraki Sea, and I hear even the lands of the Red Wastes have been seeing rainfall"

"No, I don't wanna live in Essos"

"I've sent a delegation North of the Wall, asking if that massive army of the dead if meant to come to Essos.  They say they are just taking Westeros back from a bunch of oathbreaking, genocidal invaders and are gonna Make Westeros Wild Again. You are welcome to come to Essos, the Red Waste have been greening again"

 

She isn't obligated to be the Manic Dragon Dream Girl come to save the Westerosi bois. She isn't obligated to solve their problems for them. She isn't obligated to give up everything she has built for herself and the people she likes just because Westerosi done fucked up. Heck, she could even demand the contents of the Citadel to be spread around and given to every city, copied and transcripted, as payment to allow Maesters to run around pretending they are special. They aren't, Essos likely has multiple cities that crap all over the Citadel by now.

 

You know those subversions you like so much? This could be the ultimate subversion. The so called savior of Westeros, with her dragons, doesn't even bother trying to claim the Iron Throne, and casts down everyone who keeps bugging her about it. She instead unites the Dothraki, and conquers Essos and breaks slavery, everywhere, in a Genghis Khan style conquest. She's nobodies savior.

 

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2 hours ago, Vashon said:

She isn't obligated to be the Manic Dragon Dream Girl come to save the Westerosi bois. She isn't obligated to solve their problems for them. She isn't obligated to give up everything she has built for herself and the people she likes just because Westerosi done fucked up.

Nobody is obliged to be a hero. Think that stops Clark Kent from putting in the cape?

People need help, she can deliver that.

And maybe she is obliged to. These 7 kingdoms burning, those are hers. Her father's throne, and his fathers before him, the one made of melted weapons from Targaryen subjects is needed again.

Quote

"I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn't have done that. He wasn't just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can't protect themselves?"

"Some kings make themselves. Robert did."

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

 

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Dany will go to Westeros, that's for sure. She has to reveal to people, that Stannis is not Azor Ahai, that fAegon is not Rhaegar's son, and that Jon Snow is not a bastard of Ned Stark - she saw that under influence of the shade-of-the-evening, and all her other visions in the House of the Undying turned out to be correct, so this three events will also happen. And Dany has to marry with Jon, because he is that blue flower on the wall of ice, in a vision bride of fire. Stannis, fAegon, and Jon are at Westeros, so Dany also will be there, sooner or later.

And in one of her visions Melisandre saw dragons in Westeros. But it's unlikely, that they will fly there without their mother. If dragonbinding horn did worked, Victarion could have taken one of the dragons to Westeros. But there was more than one dragon in that vision. Furthermore, based on what Moqorro said to Victarion, the horn won't work, instead Victarion will be burned to death by dragons.

And in her dragondream (and they also tend to come true) Dany saw herself on Drogon fighting against Unded Army at the Trident.

So there are many foreshadowings in the books, that Dany will eventually come to Westeros.

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She certainly doesn't have to and lately she doesn't seem eager to go there. When she'll come back to Meeren she will have to decide once and for all. fAegon has made his move and has started his conquest (we'll see how this goes in the long run) so now she has no other choice, either she goes right away and states her own claim or she stays in Essos and forgets about Westeros. She will be expected by several people who will push to go there, first Moqorro and Marwyn, probably Tyrion who has scores to settle there... And of course Victarion who was sent there to bring her west with his ships. 

Like many I don't really see her stay in Meeren even though the situation is complicated and she will most likely feel guilty to leave. With her enemies weakened I hope we'll have a resolution of the whole Sons of the Harpy storyline come to an end. That would be the push needed to leave. 

I want her to face fAegon and meet Jon sooner rather than later. I long thought that wouldn't happen before ADoS but I'm not sure so sure now. I strongly believe Jon will be resurrected but will stay Lord Commander of the NW, how could he not? Who in Westeros would seriously believe he died and came back? He had too much honor to leave and be seen as a deserter (the story with Ned executing someone who just did that). He will be an ally fAegon will want on his side as he is very respected (Cersei wanted to get rid of him) and the new king will offer to release him from his vow and Jon will want to get dragonglass from Dragonstone. As he will go south to meet fAegon I'm fairly confident he'll also meet Dany newly arrived on that island... 

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6 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Nobody is obliged to be a hero. Think that stops Clark Kent from putting in the cape?

He either stays on Metropolis or stays on Earth. He doesn't hardly give a crap otherwise, likely thousands of planets have all perished because of that, millions of people mugged somewhere else because of that.

 

And no, she isn't obligated. Her dad's throne? Woopety do, she has made her own. Its a damned shame that it probably is GRRM trying to force a conclusion that has caused the delays, because he couldn't just let the story go on its own way.

50 minutes ago, Lady Valicious said:

She certainly doesn't have to and lately she doesn't seem eager to go there. When she'll come back to Meeren she will have to decide once and for all. fAegon has made his move and has started his conquest (we'll see how this goes in the long run) so now she has no other choice, either she goes right away and states her own claim or she stays in Essos and forgets about Westeros. She will be expected by several people who will push to go there, first Moqorro and Marwyn, probably Tyrion who has scores to settle there... And of course Victarion who was sent there to bring her west with his ships. 

Dragon food. All of them. Or they pledge themselves to her and her cause and say to hell with Westeros with her. The Iron Born even followed a man whose suggestion was sheer madness of "Let's takeover the entire goddamned world", so I have little difficulty believing they would be willing to follow a woman whose creed is exactly the same.

 

And by the way? That place where she received all that prophecy? She burnt that house down, with her dragons, and walked away without a fuck to give.

 

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Posted (edited)

So far she is hating ruling in Essos, and with the pale mare in Mereen it bodes poorly. It sounds like a big pain in the butt for someone to rule a bit of it, let alone the whole of it. But sure, fully embracing the Fire & Blood ideals, you'd think she could set herself to it. Yet, the Targaryens didn't, even at their peak. Why would she succeed?

Edited by NonoNono

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:53 PM, Vashon said:

She could always just conquer Essos, all the way up the Rhoyne, and over to the Free Cities that are on the land. Using her dragons, a united Dothraki horde, and training the underclass revoltees to smash her way into becoming Empress of Essos. The Last Dragonlord conquering all the Daughters of Valyria, smashing slavery completely, from top to bottom. Why should she bother to return to Westeros? Literally why? She has already built herself one throne close to her ancient homeland, why should she bother leaving Essos at all? 

She's never set foot in Westeros, its all Viserys and Jorah's obsession, but Dany? She was raised in the Free Cities, became a grown woman in the Dothraki grasslands, and became a sovereign in the ruins of Old Ghis. Why should she be a savior for Westeros, when there are plenty to be saved in Essos?

Well yes.  She could do that.  However, it doesn't mean she won't ever set foot on Westeros ever.  She has the quickest means of transportation for her time.  She has the Airbus for transportation.  I don't see why it would be a problem to at least touch the soil of the land that her family built.  She has as much right to those lands as Ned's children have to the north.  Which is either none or some, depending on your opinion of things.  

Essos can be conquered much easier if she can get the Dothraki on her side.  Which is not guaranteed to happen in the book story.  It won't possible without the Dothraki on her side.  But suppose she does get them won over.  She can control the lands west of the boneway.  The biggest resistance will always come from the slavers and the Qartheen.  But they can be overcome in time.  It's more adventurous to take this path and build a great nation like her ancestors did.  

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13 hours ago, TheTuninator said:

Dany doesn't have to go to Westeros, but if she doesn't, all her plotline really accomplishes is delaying the series by however many years it takes to work out all the complications surrounding shuttling her to where she needs to be. It would be pointless to have her simply exist in a vacuum the entire series. GRRM might as well have simply written a companion trilogy about her once ASOIAF was completed. 

 

Personally, the sooner Dany gets to Westeros the happier I'll be, as the need to bounce her around Essos and ferry various characters to meet her must be creating ever-more-knotted plot complications for GRRM to unravel. 

This

It just doesn’t work from a narrative perspective. 

Also, if I had the means to conquer a continent that was my families for 300 years, you’re damn right I would want to. 

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