King Jon Snow Stark Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, Erkan12 said: I doubt that's the only reason, Jon understood that Dany isn't going to forgive anyone, and continue to burn everyone and even execute the surrendered prisoners all the same. But I agree if you say Arya, Sansa and the North was the most important reason, but surely not the only one. Jon Snow killed Dany because ultimately he will always be the shield that guards the realm of men. He was not going to let her do what she did to the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said: Jon Snow killed Dany because ultimately he will always be the shield that guards the realm of men. He was not going to let her do what she did to the rest of the world. Is that any different than what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isewein Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 It's just that the show took any moral gravity from his decision by telling its audience that Dany is suddenly evil incarnate in such a hamfisted way. We still saw Jon grapple with whether murdering her to protect Sansa was the right thing in the beautiful conversation with Tyrion, but it loses so much power due to the "right" thing to do already being established to the audience with the whole stupid Nazi allegory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu Bolin Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 If Dany had fallen off Drogan with a soft, non fatal landing and Cersei had The Mountain torture her in public that population would have cheered like they did at Ned's beheading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Kajjo said: Well, it is a big city but NOT the world. So why should it be world shattering. They are devastated and shocked by the destruction and human suffering, but it's war and they have seen several fields of war after a battle. Thousands of deaths, of amputated limbs, of unbelievable suffering. They are mostly shocked by the turn of events and the snapping of Daenerys. Tyrion trusted in her, Jon was in love with her. They are in shock. Of course. Jon reacted mainly to (1) Arya telling him "I know a killer when I see one", meaning his own life to be in obvious danger, and (2) to Daenerys announcing to "the war is not over ... free all the people of the world ... from Winterfell to Dorne" which is a clear threat towards Sansa, and of course (3) Tyrion analysing Daenerys's violent nature. Jon kills Daenerys because she is a threat to the realms of men, to Sansa and his family, and to him personally. I don't understand what you mean. Her brother is King of the Six Kingdoms, her sister is Queen in the North. Jon is savely in the North. What should she worry about? It's fine that she tries to find her own happiness somewhere, to go on adventures, to rest her vengeance. Arya saw the plight of the smallfolk in the Riverlands during the war of the 5 kings. She saw starvation, murder and rape of people no one gave a damn about. And that still exists as we saw the laughing of the Lords when they compared them to horses and dogs. Arya doesn't use her power and privilege to speak for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 47 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said: Arya doesn't use her power and privilege to speak for them? War is always bad for the people. All there at the final council hope for peace and seeing Bran being the King and at the moment everyone more or less agreeable with each other, this might happen for some decades. In the show Arya is not a political person at all. She managed to survive by her own skills, her toughness, her resilience. Why do you expect Arya of all people to speak up in a council to elect a King about the problems in one specific area? That makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It_spelt_Magalhaes Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 11:35 PM, Daemos said: Tyrion wanted Dany dead to save his own life as usual. Varys just wanted to be on the winning side as usual. And Jon is an idiot. The lies these people tell themselves and others, when their only concern has always been themselves. Dany has sacrificed everything for her cause and those she loved. Including her sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giskard Reventlov Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Well, destroying conquered city is not really unheard of in medieval times. Frowned upon, yes,. But it has happened. William the Conqueror basically committed genocide in the North England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Giskard Reventlov said: Well, destroying conquered city is not really unheard of in medieval times. Frowned upon, yes,. But it has happened. William the Conqueror basically committed genocide in the North England. The chevauchee was raid to accomplish fear and destruction in the countryside, and was key to the English victory in the Hundred Years War with France in the 13th-14th centuries. The Mountain's raids in the Riverlands at the beginning of the war are an example of chevauchee. https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-chevauchee-1221912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmaester Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 If anything the North should be happy to slaughter Kings Landing, the seat of power for the Lannisters who waged war on them for the length of the show. Jon tearing up about is pretty absurd, Tyrion makes sense as he was still fundamentally loyal to his family above all else. Hell they come from a population that killed both his fathers and would have killed him, there is no reason for him to care at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMudd Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Techmaester said: If anything the North should be happy to slaughter Kings Landing, the seat of power for the Lannisters who waged war on them for the length of the show. Jon tearing up about is pretty absurd, Tyrion makes sense as he was still fundamentally loyal to his family above all else. Hell they come from a population that killed both his fathers and would have killed him, there is no reason for him to care at all. You're making out that everyone is some sort of blood thirsty lunatic that has no problem killing people by the thousands. Jon not being ok with it is completely in character, exactly the same as when Ned found out about what Tywin had done during Roberts Rebellion. I'm guessing Jon and co had morals and were sickened by what they saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFL Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I’ve been thinking. What characters (named main characters) actually cared or would have cared based solely on the innocent lives Jaime - he prevented it once Jon Davos Questionably Tyrion Arya I’m sure I’m missing some but the list is fairly short. I didn’t count Edmund. He turned over River Run to save HIS people. Not innocent third party civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMudd Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, RFL said: I’ve been thinking. What characters (named main characters) actually cared or would have cared based solely on the innocent lives Jaime - he prevented it once Jon Davos Questionably Tyrion Arya I’m sure I’m missing some but the list is fairly short. I didn’t count Edmund. He turned over River Run to save HIS people. Not innocent third party civilians. Edmure would. He allowed the smallfolk into Riverrun knowing that it wasn't the best strategic move protecting them to the detriment of himself. He's is one of the few true knights in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmaester Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, KingMudd said: You're making out that everyone is some sort of blood thirsty lunatic that has no problem killing people by the thousands. Jon not being ok with it is completely in character, exactly the same as when Ned found out about what Tywin had done during Roberts Rebellion. I'm guessing Jon and co had morals and were sickened by what they saw. You don't appreciate what a long term war on your front door will cause you to do, medieval history pretty clearly shows what happens and I can promise you the victors aren't going to be immediately crying about "war crimes" among their own. People on this forum have a fundamental problem and that is applying modern morality on a setting which it does not apply to. Even if you go to other less civilized places in todays world you will see fundamentally different views on war, enemies and how you treat losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFL Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Maybe. But Dany did not win Kings Landing and then be like “got my throne”. She very deliberately decided next was Winterfell and Dorne. I have no idea what Dorne had done to be on the list. I get she did not like Sansa but there were northern soldiers there helping with the assault in Kong’s Landing. She was naming allies as next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMudd Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Techmaester said: You don't appreciate what a long term war on your front door will cause you to do, medieval history pretty clearly shows what happens and I can promise you the victors aren't going to be immediately crying about "war crimes" among their own. People on this forum have a fundamental problem and that is applying modern morality on a setting which it does not apply to. Even if you go to other less civilized places in todays world you will see fundamentally different views on war, enemies and how you treat losers. The Chivalric code was going during the middle ages which proves you wrong. You're also trying to say that everyone involved in a war for some reason would have no moral code of their own. Look at Stannis. He absolutely does not stand for any pillaging and raping from his men. There would have been commanders like this in our own history. I'm not applying modern morality to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFL Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I may not be recalling correctly but did not Dany offer combat of champions at one city to prevent having to sack it? Early on she knew destroying a city and all its inhabitants for the sins of its leaders was wrong and she showed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmaester Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, KingMudd said: The Chivalric code was going during the middle ages which proves you wrong. You're also trying to say that everyone involved in a war for some reason would have no moral code of their own. Look at Stannis. He absolutely does not stand for any pillaging and raping from his men. There would have been commanders like this in our own history. I'm not applying modern morality to anything. Ahaha, the only real chivalry was the ongoing competition among knights of who could kill the most rebelling peasants. Romanticism is far from reality. Before the middle ages you had the Romans and others which killed entire populations without a blink of an eye. This isn't even considering the rich history of the middle East and Asia! War with hand to hand combat is savage, ruthless and a population which has antagonized you for years will be slaughtered if you're given the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMudd Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Techmaester said: Romanticism is far from reality. Ironic that you chose to say this as you cannot accept that Dany is the bad guy in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFL Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Dragons are also far from reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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