Anyone else think that the problem was the execution, not the story?

[King Wyman]

It’s both. Though execution is key.

I’m not a fan of Jon and Dany’s endings.

I think doing the right thing and getting shit on/punished for it for 7 books is a bad overall arc.

Same with succumbing to madness after six+ books of struggle, and then getting killed by the person you trust most a chapter later. 

Dexter being a lumberjack ruined the show more than the bad seasons did. And Sam killing a crazed Frodo and tossing the Ring in himself, or Min killing Rand while Mat shanks the Dark One would have been shit endings. 

But the show’s execution was such a trainwreck, it’s hard to imagine the books won’t be significantly more satisfying if not completely different even if the outcome is the same. Jon won’t be useless, Dany will get time to reflect, etc. 

The issues I have with rest of the main character’s endings is all on execution. 

Most of their outcomes are fine if they happen in the books, but a lot of the show characters didn’t deserve them (looking at you Tyrion). Pretty sure the book versions will. 

Though there’s no way Sam is Grand Maester, Bronn controls the Reach, Gendry the Stormlands, or Pod is anything. That’s pure fan service.

[Beardy the Wildling]

4 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

As long as I am shooting down loony stories on the internet… there was also one that claimed I hate the character Bronn and/or the actor who portrays him, Jerome Flynn.

Total bullshit. Not a shred of truth.

I created Bronn, so it would be immodest of me to say he’s a terrific character… but what the hell, he’s a terrific character, and my readers will definitely be seeing more of him in the books to come.

And Jerome Flynn has been just WONDERFUL. It’s been a honor to work with him. He’s done a marvelous job of bringing Bronn to life.

Again: don’t believe anything you read on the internet.

GRRM never hated Bronn, and whoever claimed he did is a moron. However, he's also gone on record as saying that the showrunners made Bronn way more prominent than he would have. Not because he hated the character but because Bronn was always meant to be kinda in-the-background.

Bronn's role in the books has been limited to killing a dude in a trial by combat, holding a chain, and then trolling Cersei with his casual ambition (to the point of Cersei wanting him dead). But he isn't a major character.

Edit: I should also add that if he does make Bronn super-prominent, it may come at the expense of good writing. Remember when he tried to replace the fan-favourite Oberyn Martell with the Darkstar and ended up making the worst thing ever? GRRM isn't flawless, and his attempts at fanservice usually fall flat.

[Rose of Red Lake]

I like the conflict between Dany and the Starks, and I think Dany is the best antagonist in fantasy fiction, but I also don't think it's realistic for the hero to fall in love with the antagonist, especially when he has to be so blinded to all of her faults and dangers. Instead of "tragic romance" (which would just repeat of Jaime/Cersei and Ygritte/Jon anyway), I think GRRM should play it increasingly disturbing, like Joffrey/Sansa. But that also might be difficult, because Jon would be a grown ass man and still dumber than Sansa when she was at 13. So I'd like it if Jon got roped into a creepy controlling relationship for the sake of dragons/armies, with him trying to get out of it without Dany killing his family. This is what I hope Martin is going for. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

On 6/6/2019 at 2:27 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

GRRM never hated Bronn, and whoever claimed he did is a moron. However, he's also gone on record as saying that the showrunners made Bronn way more prominent than he would have. Not because he hated the character but because Bronn was always meant to be kinda in-the-background.

Bronn's role in the books has been limited to killing a dude in a trial by combat, holding a chain, and then trolling Cersei with his casual ambition (to the point of Cersei wanting him dead). But he isn't a major character.

Edit: I should also add that if he does make Bronn super-prominent, it may come at the expense of good writing. Remember when he tried to replace the fan-favourite Oberyn Martell with the Darkstar and ended up making the worst thing ever? GRRM isn't flawless, and his attempts at fanservice usually fall flat.

LOL  At He of The Night being a NerdNightmare, I couldn't agree more.  The same with Bronn.  I see him coming to power in the Crownlands, perhaps a role to play in the coming messes, but........not more than that, I think.  Even if there's a reunion with Tyrion, I'm not expecting much more than him in the Crownlands. 

[Beardy the Wildling]

10 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I see him coming to power in the Crownlands, perhaps a role to play in the coming messes

Exactly. Bronn is definitely going to at least get Castle Stokeworth, and may possibly continue to scam upwards in the background. If anything, he's gonna prioritise his survival and ascent, so he'd probably end up softening the Crownlands up for Aegon by fucking each house over, then kneeling to the boy and being like 'Hey, totes did it for you, ain't I a bro?'

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Exactly. Bronn is definitely going to at least get Castle Stokeworth, and may possibly continue to scam upwards in the background. If anything, he's gonna prioritise his survival and ascent, so he'd probably end up softening the Crownlands up for Aegon by fucking each house over, then kneeling to the boy and being like 'Hey, totes did it for you, ain't I a bro?'

'Ladies fall off of horses all the time.' Or some such. Classic oportunistic asshole with no boundaries.

[Kajjo]

On 5/21/2019 at 3:12 AM, Journey95 said:

Jon & Dany's arcs especially ending this way makes sense and is very GRRM

I fully agree. The ending is fine.

On 5/21/2019 at 3:12 AM, Journey95 said:

It seems many fans of these characters just wanted fanservice type of endings but that's not how this series is. It's not about what you deserve or typical fantasy tropes

Exactly. Many just don't understand it.

On 5/21/2019 at 3:12 AM, Journey95 said:

The real problem was how badly executed their arcs were

Hm, it's about execution and story telling in the show. But not about the arcs in particular.

It was all much to rushed and shortened. More dialogues, more emotions, more love to details, a little bit more of clever development would have made the season so much better. 

GoT could easily have had 9 season with 10 episodes each. There is more than enough story to tell.

On 5/21/2019 at 3:12 AM, Journey95 said:

Dany's development was rushed and contrived, we needed a whole season of gradual development into her becoming the "Mad" Queen.

Well, I still believe all this "mad" discussion leads to nowhere. It is not particularly about "going mad", but about the dragon inside her from the very beginning. 

The "snapping" issue was not depicted that bad. Yes, rushed. Yes, a bit more development would have been fine. But it is possible to understand and follow this theme. People just want to moan because they didn't see it coming since S1E1. And it was there already.