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People's reaction to Dany turning Mad Queen says something about us as humans

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1 minute ago, beeeeeen said:

 and yet, she did what a lot of other ruled would have done, she sacked the city... except that it was with magical napalm... you can think she is not worse than any other medieval ruler, but she is certainly not better... and all she did was bringing destruction just for her power lust

No! Dumb&Dumber sacked the city. Do you realize they told about this to the main actress AT THE LAST MOMENT? You should read Emilia's interviews… 

I really didn't like Daenerys because she was entitled, arrogant, cruel, but she wasn't mad . Please provide the evidences.

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12 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

No! Dumb&Dumber sacked the city. Do you realize they told about this to the main actress AT THE LAST MOMENT? You should read Emilia's interviews… 

I really didn't like Daenerys because she was entitled, arrogant, cruel, but she wasn't mad . Please provide the evidences.

No.....they didn’t tell her at the last moment.   I am quoting from Emilia’s interview with The New Yorker.  They told her early on her arc was like Lawrence of Arabia

”I remember the boys—our writers and showrunners—telling me that Daenerys’s arc is that of Lawrence of Arabia. I watched “Lawrence of Arabia,” and I was, like, “Great, cool. He’s brilliant. He survived, and it’s wonderful.” But then you remember how that movie ended, with Lawrence’s disintegration. I didn’t quite put those two things together. Or maybe I didn’t want to see it coming because I care about Daenerys too much.

Can you talk about that a little more, how Daenerys’s arc is like Lawrence of Arabia’s life?

Well, fundamentally, he’s brought in as a savior. He goes in and fights for the people, but then, ultimately, it’s a story about how power corrupts absolutely. You see power turn this man wild and mad. He can’t see anymore through the haze, the giddy highs, of being in charge. And that’s what Daenerys experiences. And yet I care for her so much. She’s been a part of me for so long that, in reading this script, I did what any actor is told to do and would do. You have to agree with your character. If you don’t agree with your character, then you shouldn’t take the job.”

 

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1 minute ago, Nowy Tends said:

No! Dumb&Dumber sacked the city. Do you realize they told about this to the main actress AT THE LAST MOMENT? You should read Emilia's interviews… 

I really didn't like Daenerys because she was entitled, arrogant, cruel, but she wasn't mad . Please provide the evidences.

Benioff and Weiss sacked the city? okay, let's follow your logic... G.R.R Martin murdered Ned, Robb, Cat, J.R.R Tolkien murdered Boromir, George Lucas murdered the entire population of Alderaan, Agatha Christie murdered a lot of peoples...
and yet, none of them has been prosecuted for those horrible actions...
I DEMAND JUSTICE!!!!!

Also, not telling Emilia Clarke before the last moment doesn't mean anything. It could be for plenty of reasons like security, but let's say it's relevant:
For the Harry Potter movies, Alan Rickman was told, in private, before he shot the first movie, what was Snape's backstory, he helped him to play his part better, because he had to act  a bitlike an a**hole but deep inside he was a good guy.
For Daenerys it's different, first, the twist, unlike Snape, is not about her past, but about her future, also, the key element with her, is that she is delusionnal about herself. She is not Emperor Palpatine, she is not knowingly plotting to do evil things, she sees herself as the hero of the story. That's why to help her act this in a credible way, they decided that Emilia Clarke had to believe, like her character, that she was the hero. Had they told her what was going to happen, it could have ruined her interpretation... or not... it depend of her talent... but they just didn't take the risk...

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1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

No.....they didn’t tell her at the last moment.   I am quoting from Emilia’s interview with The New Yorker.  They told her early on her arc was like Lawrence of Arabia

”I remember the boys—our writers and showrunners—telling me that Daenerys’s arc is that of Lawrence of Arabia. I watched “Lawrence of Arabia,” and I was, like, “Great, cool. He’s brilliant. He survived, and it’s wonderful.” But then you remember how that movie ended, with Lawrence’s disintegration. I didn’t quite put those two things together. Or maybe I didn’t want to see it coming because I care about Daenerys too much.

Can you talk about that a little more, how Daenerys’s arc is like Lawrence of Arabia’s life?

Well, fundamentally, he’s brought in as a savior. He goes in and fights for the people, but then, ultimately, it’s a story about how power corrupts absolutely. You see power turn this man wild and mad. He can’t see anymore through the haze, the giddy highs, of being in charge. And that’s what Daenerys experiences. And yet I care for her so much. She’s been a part of me for so long that, in reading this script, I did what any actor is told to do and would do. You have to agree with your character. If you don’t agree with your character, then you shouldn’t take the job.”

 

that's an interesting comparaison, i had seen similarities between her and Lawrence of Arabia when she had to execute the former slave she had freed for killing a master in season 5 but i didn't know if it was on purpose.
now i know

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

No! Dumb&Dumber sacked the city. Do you realize they told about this to the main actress AT THE LAST MOMENT? You should read Emilia's interviews… 

I really didn't like Daenerys because she was entitled, arrogant, cruel, but she wasn't mad . Please provide the evidences.

I wouldn't call any of this mad, but Dany exhibits some book Cersei-level *major* cognitive dissonance. 

She freaks on Missendei being killed, but it was a war that Dany chose and didn't have to fight. She doesn't seem to recognize this because she feels so entitled. 

Dany loves her children, but when she finds them waning and not eating from the cold, she takes them for vigorous joyriding and right before the war of all wars. Rhaegal has huge holes in his wings and struggles to fly, but Dany flies him thousands of miles in that condition with plans to then take him into a war of all things. When he dies, it doesn't occur to her that she knew of his risk. 

She says she loves Jon, but she threatens his family, threatens him personally, and then wants to put him in an excessively dangerous situation by having him go to war riding the very injured Rhaegal. Jon, being more realistic, refused to ride Rhaegal south because of the dragon's injuries and in contrast, recognizes that KL is no place for a direwolf and sends him North to safety. 

Dany says she cares for the people, but she shows no concern for the food situation, no concern for Sam's feelings when she finds out she was the one who killed his family, and is running starving troops recovering from a mass extinction event right into another war that can wait. 

She blames her failures on Tyrion when in fact, those ideas can go nowhere unless she greenlights them first. 

She glowers and threatens and sulks in corners then wonders why no one loves her. When they don't instantly fall in awe of a total stranger, she's offended and threatens them for not loving her. 

 

AGOT Daenerys IX

Ser Jorah had killed her son, Dany knew. He had done what he did for love and loyalty, yet he had carried her into a place no living man should go and fed her baby to the darkness. He knew it too; the grey face, the hollow eyes, the limp. "The shadows have touched you too, Ser Jorah," she told him. The knight made no reply. Dany turned to the godswife. "You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."

"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."

 

 

Edited by Lollygag

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On 5/20/2019 at 11:22 PM, A man doesn't have a name said:

I see people complaining about poor character development, or unforeseen corruption of Daenerys, but I honestly feel like people are mad because of how humans are. We pick our favourite heroes and turn a blind eye to everything they do from the moment they become our heroes. We leave them unchecked or justify their actions on the basis of a greater purpose that they are trying to achieve.

I literally saw people trying to justify the burning of King's Landing in order to spare their heroin from moral judgement. That's the danger of idolizing someone for whatever reason. You grant the person the status of immaculate hero and from that moment the person becomes unaccountable. It happened to many dictators in history. A tyrant is seldom born a tyrant. They win people's hearts and then go rogue as people support them unconditionally.

I have observed that people who didn't idolize Daenerys from season 1 could clearly see how she was slowly becoming obsessed with power and gave up support to her by season 7,  as she failed to display lenience and to rule with wisdom.

I don't know. I'd like to hear people's opinion on that. Although I feel like Dany's fans are so passionate that this might attract some angry comments.

 

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

???? Obviously you don't know what you're talking about… You're certainly much smarter than the 1.5 million people who signed a petition…

Even the most complacent people like Jimmy Fallon say it's crap.

Please have a look at this:

 

someone needs to send to this to those fucking actors insulting the audience

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2 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Remains whaaat? Flawless?? :rolleyes:

Given he did the most dishonorable thing possible to a woman that risked everything to save him would seem to make him pretty flawed. The only heroic action he could have taken was to tell her how he felt and accepted what ever wrath was there, stabbing a girl who trusts you while you kiss her is pretty much bottom of the barrel by any standard but most certainly Neds. 

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7 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

Given he did the most dishonorable thing possible to a woman that risked everything to save him would seem to make him pretty flawed. The only heroic action he could have taken was to tell her how he felt and accepted what ever wrath was there, stabbing a girl who trusts you while you kiss her is pretty much bottom of the barrel by any standard but most certainly Neds. 

Definitely (you can look at my previous comments). Jon ends up as the weakest/most deranged/unjustifiable character in the show even if he was 'good', which speaks volumes about GRRM´s message.

Azor Ahai my ass.

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25 minutes ago, Techmaester said:

Given he did the most dishonorable thing possible to a woman that risked everything to save him would seem to make him pretty flawed. The only heroic action he could have taken was to tell her how he felt and accepted what ever wrath was there, stabbing a girl who trusts you while you kiss her is pretty much bottom of the barrel by any standard but most certainly Neds. 

So Jon would have been a better guy if he had let Dany burn alive the rest of Westeros and then the world? 

Jon prevents Dany from doing this and notice all of those swords in the chair that would have been Dany's seat of power go up in flames? Azor Ahai. 

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10 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Definitely (you can look at my previous comments). Jon ends up as the weakest/most deranged/unjustifiable character in the show even if he was 'good', which speaks volumes about GRRM´s message.

Azor Ahai my ass.

I agree, he completely and totally failed Dany from the start of this season and ending with the most irredeemable action of any of them. He wasn't so terrible in the past but even his actions with the wildling girl we're pretty borderline.

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24 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

Definitely (you can look at my previous comments). Jon ends up as the weakest/most deranged/unjustifiable character in the show even if he was 'good', which speaks volumes about GRRM´s message.

Azor Ahai my ass.

Agreed. It doesn't matter who or what Daenerys was in the end - what Jon did to her (or more specifically, how he did it) resulted in pretty much the lowest, foulest, most sinister and dishonorable murder in the entire series - and that's saying something.

I guess Jon "kinda forgot" that Daenerys had not only saved his life twice (S7E6, S8E3) but also the life of pretty much everyone in Westeros only 3 episodes earlier. While she did have the blood of the population of King's Landing on her hands and where probably past the point of no return, she ultimately didn't deserve to go out like that: Stabbed without a word nor warning, by the last person she trusted and loved, after being tricked into kissing him.
She probably didn't even know or understand why he killed her, as her life left her. Would explain her look of absolute shock, disbelief and sadness as she died.

Jon's character was murdered this season almost as hard as Daenerys'.

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6 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

So Jon would have been a better guy if he had let Dany burn alive the rest of Westeros and then the world? 

See above. 
Jon killing Daenerys for the greater good isn't really an issue. It's how he killed her that's the issue. 

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1 minute ago, Lollygag said:

So Jon would have been a better guy if he had let Dany burn alive the rest of Westeros and then the world? 

Jon prevents Dany from doing this and notice all of those swords in the chair that would have been Dany's seat of power go up in flames? Azor Ahai. 

Yes, Her actions should have made him indebted to her. He can oppose her, he can even fight against her after she has ruled and shown to be terrible but killing her while kissing her is simply too dishonorable, too evil to do someone you claimed you loved regardless of what that person may do in the future. It crossed a boundary which pushed Jon into the irredeemable category, he should have died along with her if he was committed to it.

 

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

See above. 
Jon killing Daenerys for the greater good isn't really an issue. It's how he killed her that's the issue. 

I've not been through the whole thread and was looking at as a stand-alone statement. Yeah, that was messed up and a warped idea of romance on D&D's part. 

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8 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Agreed. It doesn't matter who or what Daenerys was in the end - what Jon did to her (or more specifically, how he did it) resulted in pretty much the lowest, foulest, most sinister and dishonorable murder in the entire series - and that's saying something.

I guess Jon "kinda forgot" that Daenerys had not only saved his life twice (S7E6, S8E3) but also the life of pretty much everyone in Westeros only 3 episodes earlier. While she did have the blood of the population of King's Landing on her hands and where probably past the point of no return, she ultimately didn't deserve to go out like that: Stabbed without a word nor warning, by the last person she trusted and loved, after being tricked into kissing him.
She probably didn't even know or understand why he killed her, as her life left her. Would explain her look of absolute shock, disbelief and sadness as she died.

Jon's character was murdered this season almost as hard as Daenerys'.

Perfectly said.

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Just now, Techmaester said:

Yes, Her actions should have made him indebted to her. He can oppose her, he can even fight against her after she has ruled and shown to be terrible but killing her while kissing her is simply too dishonorable, too evil to do someone you claimed you loved regardless of what that person may do in the future. It crossed a boundary which pushed Jon into the irredeemable category, he should have died along with her if he was committed to it. 

 

I agree that Jon's method is messed up. I don't agree that Jon should let more innocents die because *feelings*. 

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